Roy Keane's visit to Carrington

[Betson]

Carra is just blaming the manager while Keane is saying managers need time and recruitment and structure hasn’t been good enough. When asked how long it takes he said Liverpool are praised for all the answers but took 30 years. Why did it take 30 years with all the answers?

Also asked what did messiah pep do in his first full season at City , and is wondering why those who are saying Ole should be sacked are not after Lampard as well.

He certainly thinks Ole should be given more time and that another manager right now will not solve things with this squad(they all agree on that) , but Keane thinks Ole should get another season. Carra and Souness think it is time to sack him , Evra non committal.

 

[sammsky1]

Carragher has schooled him. He’s having a meltdown.

Carragher didn’t school him at all. Utter bollocks.

And Keane was 100% in what he said.

 

[LARulz]

Carra is just blaming the manager while Keane is saying managers need time and recruitment and structure hasn’t been good enough. When asked how long it takes he said Liverpool are praised for all the answers but took 30 years. Why did it take 30 years with all the answers?

He's also arguing Ole is a good manager despite evidence to the contrary. Carragher tried to call him on that fairly

 

[Berbaclass]

Theres no pressure on Lampard because the teams below them have been worse.

But the perception of him is that he's doing well. He's doing just about as well as Ole is. Like Keane said, they've lost 8 games (one more than us)

 

[mu4c_20le]

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[LARulz]

Theres no pressure on Lampard because the teams below them have been worse and Chelsea lost their best player with a transfer ban.

And he had a transfer ban and lost their best player

 

[arnie_ni]

He's also arguing Ole is a good manager despite evidence to the contrary. Carragher tried to call him on that fairly

Keane said they havent been good enough and with the squad should be 3rd in the league.

All he was saying is you cant fire him after 12 months

 

[izec]

Keane said they havent been good enough and with the squad should be 3rd in the league.

All he was saying is you cant fire him after 12 months

no, but you can fire him after 18 months. Ole doesnt deserve another season, on and off the pitch

 

[RazorOz]

Keane is talking contradictory nonsense. On the one hand he was saying Man Utd with their squad should be above Chelsea and Leicester, on the other he was questioning why Lampard is getting praise while people are questioning Ole. You can't have it both ways, if you are questioning the praise for Lampard because he's English when he's not even had a proper transfer window and was handed a job that involved immediately losing your best player, but not questioning the manager who's been in the job twice as long who is achieving worse results on the pitch who you claim has a better squad then that is blinkered thinking because he's your mate.

 

[LARulz]

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It's a nonsense argument.

Lampard came into Chelsea with the loss of their best player and transfer ban. It's also his first season.

Solskjaer has been here a year and there is still no actual obvious style of play and we still aren't in the top 4. This is despite Keane himself saying we should be above Leicester and Chelsea. Also please remember, both managers joined those clubs after Ole

 

[limerickcitykid]

Keane is talking contradictory nonsense. On the one hand he was saying Man Utd with their squad should be above Chelsea and Leicester, on the other he was questioning why Lampard is getting praise while people are questioning Ole. You can't have it both ways, if you are questioning the praise for Lampard because he's English when he's not even had a proper transfer window and was handed a job that involved immediately losing your best player, but not questioning the manager who's been in the job twice as long who is achieving worse results on the pitch who you claim has a better squad then that is blinkered thinking because he's your mate.

Where did he say don’t question him? He didn’t because he’s criticized and questioned him himself. Questioning someone doesn’t mean they should be fired.

Practice your comprehension skills.

 

[mu4c_20le]

And he had a transfer ban and lost their best player

It's a nonsense argument.

Lampard came into Chelsea with the loss of their best player and transfer ban. It's also his first season.

We lost Alexis, and the way we let Herrera/Fellaini/Lukaku go while only buying defenders, we may as well not had a transfer window at all

 

[LARulz]

Carragher didn’t school him at all. Utter bollocks.

And Keane was 100% in what he said.

On one hand he says we should be above Leicester and Chelsea. And othe other wonders why Lampard isn't under as much pressure (forgetting the obvious circumstances).

He can't say Solskjaer is doing a good job and criticise the teams and managers above us

 

[Berbaclass]

It's a nonsense argument.

Lampard came into Chelsea with the loss of their best player and transfer ban. It's also his first season.

Solskjaer has been here a year and there is still no actual obvious style of play and we still aren't in the top 4. This is despite Keane himself saying we should be above Leicester and Chelsea. Also please remember, both managers joined those clubs after Ole

So he deserves absolutely no criticism? Of course he does.

 

[LARulz]

So he deserves absolutely no criticism? Of course he does.

Of course he does. But Solskjaer got none in his first. Solskjaer has been here a year and is getting let off lightly by his mates. As Carragher said, he was screaming for Mourinho to go last year

 

[RazorOz]

The difference between Ole and say Klopp when it comes to this idea that you should just blindly give managers time in the hope it eventually comes good is that with Klopp there was always signs of improvement in the team, often let down by defensive mistakes, areas that were gradually addressed over time by buying the right players. There is no signs of improvement with Ole, and there's no real sign of us addressing our issues by buying the right players, something that goes back a long time because the problems at Utd go much deeper than the manager.

 

[arnie_ni]

On one hand he says we should be above Leicester and Chelsea. And othe other wonders why Lampard isn't under as much pressure (forgetting the obvious circumstances).

He can't say Solskjaer is doing a good job and criticise the teams and managers above us

Thats not what he meant. He was saying lampard has 8 defeats, why is no one questioning him, maybe its because he's English.

He himself wasn't questioning Lampard, he was just throwing it out there that he doesnt get criticised at all

 

[LARulz]

Thats not what he meant. He was saying lampard has 8 defeats, why is no one questioning him, maybe its because he's English.

He himself wasn't questioning Lampard, he was just throwing it out there that he doesnt get criticised at all

Because most people understand the situation he came into and is still in the top 4

 

[Kostur]

We lost Alexis, and the way we let Herrera/Fellaini/Lukaku go while only buying defenders, we may as well not had a transfer window at all

I mean, the bolded in itself is a comedy gold but it's almost as if Ole didn't sell Fellaini and Lukaku himself.

 

[Name Changed]

Carragher has schooled him. He’s having a meltdown.

Not really.

 

[arnie_ni]

Because most people understand the situation he came into and is still in the top 4

And look at our situation. Our squad simply isnt good enough.

It actually looks like im defending ole here, but i wouldnt even have game him the full time role.

 

[LARulz]

And look at our situation. Our squad simply isnt good enough.

It actually looks like im defending ole here, but i wouldnt even have game him the full time role.

Keane himself, in his own argument, said we should be above Chelsea and Leicester based on squads

 

[Nas-JR]

no, but you can fire him after 18 months. Ole doesnt deserve another season, on and off the pitch

Since coming in, ole has got rid of lukaku, fellaini, sanchez, herrera, young, smalling, valencia (all of which we were dying to get rid of bar herrera) and has only got 3 players in including a 21 year old championship player.

Since the start of the season our most talented player has barely played and has been nothing but trouble, our most combative midfielder has been injured for months, our main striker has missed a couple of months as well, while our best player has just got injured. Whichever way you look at it, that is very unlucky.

Despite this, we are in still in all competitions, and not far off top 4. We've also played very exciting stuff at times (albeit quite inconsistent but given how young our squad is that is surely acceptable!) and outplayed a lot of the 'best' teams in the league.

Rashford, Fred, mcT lindelof have improved tremendously, while players like greenwood and Williams have been slowly integrated into the squad.

If you can't draw positives from all this and admit he deserves more time to continue the turnover of players and build the squad in his image then I don't really know what to say

 

[arnie_ni]

Keane himself, in his own argument, said we should be above Chelsea and Leicester based on squads

We probably should yes, but competing with the top 2? Not a chance

 

[LARulz]

We probably should yes, but competing with the top 2? Not a chance

But he wasn't arguing that, nobody is. He can't on one hand say Solskjaer can't be blamed but say we should be above the team's he is criticising.

He seemed to say the opposite to whatever Carragher was saying

 

[crossy1686]

In case anyone missed Keane setting Carragher straight, I'll try and paraphrase:

• Solskjaer is more or less getting the most out of this group of players
• Rashford is a big miss
• United have a young team that are inconsistent but there are positives with some of the players
• Martial showed today why he's just not good enough to play for United
• Some players (Pogba) don't want to be at the club and are a nuisance. Evra suggested Pogba wanted to go in the summer but United wouldn't let him. Also said players only come for the money and not the badge now.
• Manager needs time to build something as at the moment sacking him wouldn't solve anything, said this about all the managers United have had since SAF. Said one year is not enough time for anyone to make something out of a team in as bad a shape as United.
• Carragher said United have appointed poor coaches since SAF which is why they've been so bad, Keane lost his shit about this.
• Went on to say it recruitment is the issue as is swapping and changing managers every season or so.
• Said Klopp would have been sacked before his third season if that was the case. Said he came from a big club that play in front of 80,000 people and won league titles in a big league and underachieved with Liverpool when he arrived but was given time to put in place his vision.
• Said it's absurd that everyone now thinks Liverpool hold all the answers and United are amateurs in regards to the way the club is run.
• Said if United are run so shit then why did it take Liverpool 30 years to have a solid run at the title and for United its been 7 years.
• Said he isn't defending Ole because he's a friend or a former team mate, said he thinks all the manager should have been given more time and the squad should have been ripped out like what City did for Pep in his second season after underachievement in the first.
• Said he felt the performance was good but he wasn't happy with the result due to the expectation on United, but he said he's not too disappointed because no one was expecting United to win anyway and gave a good account of themselves.
• Reluctantly said Liverpool were a brilliant great good team because they find a way to win.
• Said everyone things Lampard is doing great, probably because he's English, but they're not a good team and he should be doing better, however, he needs more time at the club to mould it in his own way like Ole does.

 

[Sandikan]

In case anyone missed Keane setting Carragher straight, I'll try and paraphrase:

• Solskjaer is more or less getting the most out of this group of players
• Rashford is a big miss
• United have a young team that are inconsistent but there are positives with some of the players
• Martial showed today why he's just not good enough to play for United
• Some players (Pogba) don't want to be at the club and are a nuisance. Evra suggested Pogba wanted to go in the summer but United wouldn't let him. Also said players only come for the money and not the badge now.
• Manager needs time to build something as at the moment sacking him wouldn't solve anything, said this about all the managers United have had since SAF. Said one year is not enough time for anyone to make something out of a team in as bad a shape as United.
• Carragher said United have appointed poor coaches since SAF which is why they've been so bad, Keane lost his shit about this.
• Went on to say it recruitment is the issue as is swapping and changing managers every season or so.
• Said Klopp would have been sacked before his third season if that was the case. Said he came from a big club that play in front of 80,000 people and won league titles in a big league and underachieved with Liverpool when he arrived but was given time to put in place his vision.
• Said it's absurd that everyone now thinks Liverpool hold all the answers and United are amateurs in regards to the way the club is run.
• Said if United are run so shit then why did it take Liverpool 30 years to have a solid run at the title and for United its been 7 years.
• Said he isn't defending Ole because he's a friend or a former team mate, said he thinks all the manager should have been given more time and the squad should have been ripped out like what City did for Pep in his second season after underachievement in the first.
• Said he felt the performance was good but he wasn't happy with the result due to the expectation on United, but he said he's not too disappointed because no one was expecting United to win anyway and gave a good account of themselves.
• Reluctantly said Liverpool were a brilliant great good team because they find a way to win.
• Said everyone things Lampard is doing great, probably because he's English, but they're not a good team and he should be doing better, however, he needs more time at the club to mould it in his own way like Ole does.

90% of that seems right.

But how is Martial not good enough? He looked fairly decent today on a day he was never going to be smothered in quality possession!

 

[arnie_ni]

But he wasn't arguing that, nobody is. He can't on one hand say Solskjaer can't be blamed but say we should be above the team's he is criticising.

He seemed to say the opposite to whatever Carragher was saying

It was a throwaway comment... why aren't you questioning Lampard like you are ole, maybe its because he's english.

He then said Lampard needs time to implement what he wants and needs to do.

He wasnt saying he was doing a bad job or should be fired

 

[Betson]

Evra and Keane letting Carra know you have to win Multiple(4 or 5) titles to be considered a great team , cups don't matter. Souness actually agreed with this.

 

[Snow]

It's a nonsense argument.

Lampard came into Chelsea with the loss of their best player and transfer ban. It's also his first season.

Solskjaer has been here a year and there is still no actual obvious style of play and we still aren't in the top 4. This is despite Keane himself saying we should be above Leicester and Chelsea. Also please remember, both managers joined those clubs after Ole

We also lost our best player. How much has Pogba played this season?

We'd have a better squad now if we had a transfer ban.

 

[Prometheus]

Keane trying to deflect blame/attention from his mate with the Lampard comment, nice.

 

[Betson]

Keane trying to deflect blame/attention from his mate with the Lampard comment, nice.

He was not having a go at Lampard , he thinks Chelsea are right to stick with Lampard but just making the comparison with the stick Ole gets and the lack of it that Lampard gets.

 

[crossy1686]

90% of that seems right.

But how is Martial not good enough? He looked fairly decent today on a day he was never going to be smothered in quality possession!

Missed a sitter. Keane said it was him in a nutshell. Does well to get into the positions but falls short when you need him to do the business. Quality forwards would have bagged it and have that ruthlessness streak

 

[arnie_ni]

He was not having a go at Lampard , he thinks Chelsea are right to stick with Lampard but just making the compassion with the stick Ole gets and the lack of it that Lampard gets.

This. It was a throwaway comment

 

[Prometheus]

He was not having a go at Lampard , he thinks Chelsea are right to stick with Lampard but just making the comparison with the stick Ole gets and the lack of it that Lampard gets.

He fully knows why Lampard isn't getting stick. He knows the situations aren't really the same.

 

[Red00012]

90% of that seems right.

But how is Martial not good enough? He looked fairly decent today on a day he was never going to be smothered in quality possession!

He’s probably talking about that 1 chance he got in the 2nd half. I thought he played alright today but I guess what separates the good and world class is taking that one chance you get in a big game .

 

[Man of Leisure]

Not much wrong with what Keane said imo. Found whatever Evra was wearing more offensive.

Carragher sounded a bit scared there

 

[Sweet Square]

Thought Keane was going to punch Carragher at one point.

Legend

 

[Sandikan]

Missed a sitter. Keane said it was him in a nutshell. Does well to get into the positions but falls short when you need him to do the business. Quality forwards would have bagged it and have that ruthlessness streak

Did he have anything to say about media darling Salah? Missing an infinitely easier chance centre of goal, 5 yards out?

Martial at least had the skills to get through to even have the shot, which a lot wouldn't have done.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

And he had a transfer ban and lost their best player

They made Kovacic's loan permanent, brought in Pulisic and had Reece James, Tammy Abraham, Mason Mount return from loan

They're all played 10+ games this season and I think all those loan returnees played yesterday?

This "transfer ban" gets used a lot and as has been said in other threads, it's not as clear as some make out.

(fyi. Not saying he's doing a good or bad job ... just that it often gets interpreted as black and white .... "He's lost his best player, brought no one in". Shades of grey).