He has not had a full season yet.
Give him to December at least.
Give him to December at least.
The “Ole In” Brigade
- Thread starter Lentwood
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
You make it sound like we're the only team that misses chances. If Sterling scored his missed chances we would of lost by 6. If Salah scored his missed chances we would of lost by 4 or 5 and that's only in the last couple of weeks. Plenty of teams miss good chances against us.
Yes just assume everything would have gone to Conte's plan, Woodward would have given him everything he wanted, these overpaid average players would have all loved Conte and given their all for him.Yes, to highlight the embarrassment of it.
The you honestly think Conte would have allowed the daft "United way" mass exodus that has left us so exposed shows you can't look at this critically. Conte would have kept a strong squad, got the best out of players and made sure that a rebuild was done with the present also in mind.
Thinking it could of been worse
Do you honestly think Liverpool should bother giving Klopp all that money? or just hand it to his assistant for 1/4 of the wage?
It's never that straightforward and definitely won't be under the next manager whoever it is. There's always a chance things could be worse.
Guess which one are We?
1. Great owner with a long term vision and money + Great manager = Huge chance of success
2. Clueless owner but with a lot of money + Great manager = Big chance of success
3. Great owner with a long term vision and money + Bad manager = Small chance of success / will only succeed in a league where there's no competition
4. Clueless owner but with a lot of money + Bad manager = Small chance of success / Midtable mediocrity
5. Clueless owner with no money + Bad manager = Relegation
1. Great owner with a long term vision and money + Great manager = Huge chance of success
2. Clueless owner but with a lot of money + Great manager = Big chance of success
3. Great owner with a long term vision and money + Bad manager = Small chance of success / will only succeed in a league where there's no competition
4. Clueless owner but with a lot of money + Bad manager = Small chance of success / Midtable mediocrity
5. Clueless owner with no money + Bad manager = Relegation
What long term plan? Ole is tactically inept. He is unproven, inexperienced, as is 90% of his coaching team. Ship without a rudder.
Yeah. Most sensible thing to do.I'm compiling a list of all you fecking whining cnuts that want Ole sacked so when he is sacked and we have the same shit squad with a new manager churning out the same shit results under the same ownership with Woodward at the helm I can chime in here and say, "now what?"
I don't even care anymore. Until the owners or Woodward is chucked out, it's all the same. I'll still watch matches but I stopped letting it ruin my day several years ago. I suggest you all do the same. Life is too short to cry over something you can't change.
That makes no sense unless you think management and coaching is just like 1% of everything.
Darmian, Valencia, Fellaini, Smalling, Lukaku, have all featured on many people's lists of players we don't want over the past couple of years. They are now no longer here. Mata, Matic, Lingard, Jones, Rojo among others are probably needing moved on sooner rather than later too. Getting rid of average players IS a good plan, and we have been needing to do it for years. Again though, we need to actually replace them properly or the plan kind of falls apart.
Ole just isn’t good enough to manage this club. Yes he gave us a morale boost in the back end of last season but he’s not shown any signs for me that he’s creating a style of play we can build on.
In pre-season he gave all this talk that we’d be the hardest working team in the league and that we’d play a high press but after a few weeks there was no sign of an organised press anymore. When the front 3 do decide to press now there’s barely any coordination and no thought about cutting off passing angles. That’s down to the coaching staff not drilling the patterns into the players.
When it comes to the attack we always play the pass too late or play one pass too many, too many players taking too much time on the ball and no one making runs in behind or on the overlap.
The most telling thing though is how abysmal we are at defending set pieces which is almost entirely down to the manager. It’s clear the zonal system isn’t working and teams are coming to Old Trafford knowing that if they stay compact they have every chance of nicking a goal from a set piece which was exactly Burnley’s game plan tonight. And it worked to a tee.
In pre-season he gave all this talk that we’d be the hardest working team in the league and that we’d play a high press but after a few weeks there was no sign of an organised press anymore. When the front 3 do decide to press now there’s barely any coordination and no thought about cutting off passing angles. That’s down to the coaching staff not drilling the patterns into the players.
When it comes to the attack we always play the pass too late or play one pass too many, too many players taking too much time on the ball and no one making runs in behind or on the overlap.
The most telling thing though is how abysmal we are at defending set pieces which is almost entirely down to the manager. It’s clear the zonal system isn’t working and teams are coming to Old Trafford knowing that if they stay compact they have every chance of nicking a goal from a set piece which was exactly Burnley’s game plan tonight. And it worked to a tee.
Hopeless.
Ok, Ole and Conte... same thing, just as good as each other?
Or not, Conte much better? but in Leftbacks eyes that means little, a top coach over a poor one means a point or 2 a season. Coaching/management is just 1% of everything.
Have you heard yourself?
At least you realise he will be sacked. And when that happens it will be so interesting to see which club will want to hire such an amazing manager, not even Molde will.I'm compiling a list of all you fecking whining cnuts that want Ole sacked so when he is sacked and we have the same shit squad with a new manager churning out the same shit results under the same ownership with Woodward at the helm I can chime in here and say, "now what?"
I don't even care anymore. Until the owners or Woodward is chucked out, it's all the same. I'll still watch matches but I stopped letting it ruin my day several years ago. I suggest you all do the same. Life is too short to cry over something you can't change.
I'm sorry but that's absolute utter rubbish.
The people that blame the manager year after year whilst letting the Glazers get off scot free season after season are the one's that are naturally supporting the decline of the club.
Forget the manager at this stage, this now goes way beyond the manager. The Glazers now have to be put firmly under the spotlight. No manager will thrive under them. It's totally unacceptable what they are doing to this club.
And we can't recall him when in need.
I'm sorry but that's nonsense. He is a substantially better manager than Solskjaer.
I agree though, that there isn't a manager out there who, by themselves, sorts this need out. But Poch is the right manager that we need to make the necessary changes under. Putting it differently, I don't think Ole, even under the right ownership, is good enough. Whereas Poch, under the right owners, would be sensational for us.
No-one, absolutely no-one does that so do be quiet.
You would think of all fans, we should know best how important a manager is.
I don't disagree with what you're saying but to say that Ole isn't a problem is absolute rubbish and as long as he is the manager we are going nowhere. Not only that, but as long as we have these owners the club is going nowhere. You can't tell me a more qualified manager wouldn't have better results than what we have been seeing this season.
Inter last year - made 4th spot on the last day and were fortunate not to concede another goal in the last 10 minutes, I mean really fortunate if you seen the game.
21 points behind Juventus.
In comes Conte and his biggest signings is apparently one useless forward according to the caf.
This season they were 1st couple of weeks ago and are only 4 points off Juve as things stand today.
But yeah if Inter appointed Solskjaer it would have been the same right?
I'd actually be okay with us being relegated right now (may happen next season if Ole is still here) - it would be the only way the Glazers and their prize idiot Woodward bugger off.
I love United but I genuinely hate this team, I'll always support this club, premier league winners or playing in the championship I dont care, I do care about the people running this club so appallingly that it has it's own supporters split into factions.
In what world "people are letting the Glazers off scot free"? They have been under pressure ever since the take over. People are chanting them off every single game.
The only one who is getting a free ride here is Ole.
Do you honestly believe this? Do you honestly think that any competent manager could put up a worse record than Ole since he became permanent manager? He's won something like 29% of his Premier League games since becoming permanent manager (someone please correct me if I have that number wrong but I think it's in the ballpark). It can't get worse than that. You or I could win as many games as Ole and I'm not even kidding.
You would have said it was a pretty average looking side 8 months ago though and wouldn't expect it to win many PL games. Suddenly now it's good enough and Ole should be doing far better with it.
On the injuries, all those teams are below us so I'm not sure what your point is there. They have obviously been hampered by it.
I agree he's a substantially better manager. But results wise I don't think Ole has done any worse than expected given players at his disposal. We're "fighting" for 4th, with this group and with Pogba being out the entire season. I really can't expect anything more from this group, and I don't think anyone can. Not until there are some reinforcements.
Saying that, I don't think we'd be markedly different with reinforcements under Ole (better ultimately, but probably not even on par with Leicester this year), whereas with reinforcements with Pochettino we'd be a lot better.
Obviously he will sell their current top scorer.
When everyone was celebrating selling Lukaku I was questioning why.
That side Ole took over was the 2nd best team in the PL the previous season. He then culled the same squad without getting much needed replacements. He spent 80 million on a CB when we needed players in midfield. He could have got two good midfield players or even three for the amount he spent on Maguire.
He could have coached these players better. They are not that bad players individually. You replace Periera with a good midfield player and replace Matic with another and if coached and set up properly we at least would have been in 4th or even 3rd place.
He cannot even get us to defend a set piece. Scholes said today it is because United now is not practicing set pieces. The man is a clown now. He needs to be sacked now.
I think management and coaching can only do so much when you're squad is so thin.
An attack of Rashford, Martial, James, Greenwood, Lingard, Mata. A midfield of McTominay, Fred, Matic, Pereira and Garner. The defensive choices and goalkeepers are fine with depth, maybe not top quality but it's fine. That midfield and attack is horrendous though. Pogba out for the entire season and obviously leaving in the summer too. Do you see that as a squad that is more than 4th-6th? Not a chance. Pochettino would do a whole lot more with us with the proper reinforcements of course than Ole would, but with this current group, I don't think he'd do much more. Players like Andreas Pereira just aren't capable of it. Players like Mata and Matic aren't up to it anymore. Our only good players need to play every game because there is no depth, leading to injuries.
We probably wouldn't quite have the same squad situation with Pochettino (debatable though, given it's Woodward and the Glazers calling the shots), but with what we have, I'd bet there wouldn't be much of a difference in the league table/points totals. Performances might show more promise on the rare occasion we can put out a decent starting 11 and everyone is fit though.
You don’t expect any better vs Burnley at OT than a 0-2 loss? Did you expect better on the final day of last season when both Pogba and Rashford were present?
Listen to yourselves, the jig is fecking up, Ole is a terrible manager, with a terrible track record at the highest level, it doesn’t matter who he has at his disposal.
Pretty average to win the title? Of course. Is it worse than Chelsea, Leicester and the likes that are above us? No, the difference is the manager. Put Ole in charge for Leicester and he will drive them midtable just like Puel.
Look at Chelsea:
https://www.transfermarkt.com/fc-chelsea/ausfallzeiten/verein/631
Their best defender has missed almost the entire season so far and is coming after a lengthy period when he was sidelined.
Kante - their best midfielder has missed 8 games.
CHO - missed the start of the season.
Loftus Cheek is out for the season.
Pulisic the last month and he's out for at least another.
Barkley - missed 2 months.
Christensen also has been sidelined for couple of games.
[Irrelevant point] is underperforming massively and played in handful of games.
Isn't their team pretty average using your same yard stick?
Deadwood apparently.
We are finally starting to see the long term fruits from his management that everyone talked about.
Just like with Moyes it is getting worse and worse. Although relativly speaking even worse now.
Just like with Moyes it is getting worse and worse. Although relativly speaking even worse now.
The assumption was that we would replace him in the squad adequately. People were (rightly IMO) happy that we were giving Martial and Rashford bigger roles. Rashford had been brilliant this season, but no depth led him to getting injured. Martial was also having a good season, and forming an encouraging partnership with Rashford. But now with Rashford out, and again, no depth to speak of, it's hard to see him doing much on his own.
People were happy Greenwood was going to get the chances. Rightly, again. But also people expected we would have adequate depth that it wouldn't all lie on his shoulders. Yet here we are.
Can say the same about Herrera. Would've been nice to keep him, but not the end of the world him leaving. Him leaving and us not replacing him with literally anybody equals a really shit situation.
This 2nd best team nonsense again. Just like Leicester were the 'best team' in 2016 so presumably should still be there with your logic.
If Woodward backed Mourinho, comfortably the best manager we've had in the last 6 years maybe we wouldn't be in such as mess.
Why can't you accept that the squad is so thin and poor because Ole culled the squad and did not bring in any players? If our players are so pathetic why doesn't he get some from anywhere? Surely they should be better than Lingard and Pereira? And they would not cost an arm and a leg. For 80 million we could have got two class midfield players from abroad. Yet he arsed about Longstaff. If the Board is not getting him any players then he should come out and say openly he is not getting any new players.
If he has any love for United or self respect he should not be cheating the fans about players. He should come out and say openly that he has to live with the squad he has. If he does that the no one is going to blame him for these disasters.
Absolutely no-one? The vast majority of our fanbase will lap up whatever Woodward has to say to the media. When season tickets need selling in the summer you can bet our fanbase will get excited over Woodward's false promises whether it's appointing a director of football or a £300 million rebuild. We're getting conned year after year ffs.
Thanks for your quick and personal response but unfortunately for you I won't be quiet. Sorry!
And implement the pashun, "Inter way" structure of being again midtable, but with a plan!
Well you are defending the guy who condoned this and didn't bring in a replacement but thought about spending most of the budget on a CB, having 7 in his ranks and sending out one of them on loan to Roma.
Not that we didn't need another CB, but it was waaaay down in the list of priorities after CF and CM.
I'm not surprised at all by this result. Look at the fecking team he had to pick from. We don't have players. No, I don't expect a 2-0 loss, but what I'm expecting every game from now until the end of the season if we don't sign anyone and Pogba/McTominay/Rashford are out the whole time is every game is going to be a slog, grind fest, basically flip of the coin to determine the result. It's a mid table squad that is left. No better. A mid table squad that will have mid table results.
Last season was a unique thing season in that we suffered both extremes after he became manager. I'm only looking at this season. I'm not saying he's even very good. I'm saying I don't see a big difference this season, with this squad, regardless of who the manager is. Plenty of them have individually done pretty well. Plenty of them have gone through good periods and progressed as players. But when you're in a situation where your best players need to play every week and then get injured, and you have no depth, then I don't think there's much anyone can do. On top of that the whole Pogba being absent the entire season situation. It's basically as if we sold him and didn't replace him in the summer. Would you be expecting top 4 if last summer we sold Pogba and didn't sign anyone but we replaced Ole with Pochettino? I sure as feck wouldn't.
My whole point is that Ole being manager or not doesn't fecking matter at this point. No matter the manager, it isn't changing until the management change their attitude.
Spot on. Some of the comments on here are embarrassing. Folk are seriously suggesting a better manager couldnt have got better results than Ole. Really?
Did Ole bid 80 million for Maguire?
Or did Woody fail miserably to negotiate a deal with Leicester?
Or did Woody fail miserably to negotiate a deal with Leicester?
Honestly though - forget all our injuries. The squad we had out tonight should have been easily able to control a game at home against Burnley. There is a susceptibility amongst fans which managers, owners and PR mouthpiece guys like Stone exploit in that if they say something enough, people start to believe it. Mou did this constantly and now Ole is doing it with this incessant positivity and talk of a journey/getting there, I genuinely cannot believe there are people on this sub who watch football regularly and genuinely, forgetting Ole's history, think he's doing a good job or that any kind of rebuild is happening.
We have spent a shit load of money but it's not like we've been spinning a roulette wheel and have just had some bad luck with signings - we've bought players who were excellent at other clubs and then turned them to dross because we setup in a manner which is tactically extremely simple and reliant on individual brilliance rather than a collective effort. This is 100% down to the coaching team who have almost zero relevant experience, that's the flabbergasting thing, McKenna and Carrick have only ever worked as first team coaches at United, Ole has never managed in a top league bar the disastrous Cardiff stint and then we have Phelan who had semi retired in Australia but is the only one who is 'qualified' for his job.
Think what you want of Woodward and the Glazers, they deserve to be held accountable, but the pendulum has swung so far now that we're giving an unqualified manager a free pass because of poor ownership. It's crazy when you think how much scorn fans would have if we put Bruce, McLaren or any other former player turned mediocre manager etc into the seat (and rightly so) but then Ole is someone who deserves time? It's nonsensical. If we want to persist with this style of football, we might as well just sign a manager who is has built a pressing team like Sampaoli, Poch or even Hasenhuttl because, regardless of it's the right choice tactically or not, you know they can implement it.