[He'sRaldo]

People were previously asking who would end up being better between him and Rashford and I guess we got the answer.

Why do you say this? To me they've had pretty identical seasons, but in different roles.

 

[el3mel]

Why do you say this? To me they've had pretty identical seasons, but in different roles.

Rashford has been far better and more consistent for me. Even when he has a poor game he ends up scoring like any top player. He's by far our best player of the season. Martial drifts in and out from game to game and really hasn't been any kind of consistent at all.

 

[Sayros]

Rashford has been far better and more consistent for me. Even when he has a poor game he ends up scoring like any top player. He's by far our best player of the season. Martial drifts in and out from game to game and really hasn't been any kind of consistent at all.

Neither was Rashford when Martial was out. They depend on each other for success. Rashford was terrible when Martial was out, a simple look at his player thread during that time reflects that.

 

[el3mel]

Neither was Rashford when Martial was out. They depend on each other for success. Rashford was terrible when Martial was out, a simple look at his player thread during that time reflects that.

I don't buy this theory. Martial isn't having a period of poor form. He just drifts in and out, having a good game followed by a poor one. Doesn't play 3 successive games in good form. This has nothing to do with players around imo. It's normal to have a period during the season when your form drops for few several games before regaining it but for Martial he's just not consistent that's all, can't bring himself to play few matches in a row with same form.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Rashford has been far better and more consistent for me. Even when he has a poor game he ends up scoring like any top player. He's by far our best player of the season. Martial drifts in and out from game to game and really hasn't been any kind of consistent at all.

I think the one thing Martial has stopped doing this season is drifting, his work rate and determination has been commendable.

The difference between the perceptions of Martial and Rashford's seasons will ultimately be that Martial was injured before Rashford. If it was the other way around, I think people would appreciate Martial more, because Rashford would struggle up top until the end of the season. Now that Martial's the one doomed to struggle till the end, Rashford will of course be more missed, and Martial taken for granted.

In any case, I don't think the analysis of Rashford being far better is completely accurate. I think they've both been quite good when playing together, and poor when playing alone.

 

[el3mel]

I think the one thing Martial has stopped doing this season is drifting, his work rate and determination has been commendable.

The difference between the perceptions of Martial and Rashford's seasons will ultimately be that Martial was injured before Rashford. If it was the other way around, I think people would appreciate Martial more, because Rashford would struggle up top until the end of the season. Now that Martial's the one doomed to struggle till the end, Rashford will of course be more missed, and Martial taken for granted.

In any case, I don't think the analysis of Rashford being far better is completely accurate. I think they've both been quite good when playing together, and poor when playing alone.

I didn't say anything about his work rate. He hasn't been lazy. He just can't bring himself to play few matches in a row with same level and form.

I also don't buy the Martial-Rashford combo theory. Rashford had poor games while Martial was playing, and Martial had poor games when Rashford was playing. The difference is just that even while having poor games from time to time Rashford still kept on scoring in the majority of them. He has become a more consistent goal scorer.

 

[He'sRaldo]

I didn't say anything about his work rate. He hasn't been lazy. He just can't bring himself to play few matches in a row with same level and form.

Yeah his level has dropped recently, but the good thing is that even then he's been on the scoresheet while playing poorly, same as Rashford. Now that Rashford is out and he's the only real threat, that may not be the case anymore.

I also don't buy the Martial-Rashford combo theory. Rashford had poor games while Martial was playing, and Martial had poor games when Rashford was playing. The difference is just that even while having poor games from time to time Rashford still kept on scoring in the majority of them. He has become a more consistent goal scorer.

When Martial was out, Rashford only scored 1 non-penalty goal, and I think 2 goals in total. In that time period, we didn't score more than 1 goal in any game. One he was back, we scored three, with him and Rashford getting on the scoresheet.

Of course those sorts of things will be forgotten since it was a while ago, but at the time people were very frustrated with Rashford, wanting to "burst his bubble". He became more consistent with Martial playing alongside him, without him he struggled for sure.

All that to say neither are bad players, but they need help. Instead of tasking Martial to "step up" in Rashford's absence or vice versa, we should have added even more forwards to help both of them out. Greenwood is a great example of a quality forward who has come in and helped the other 2 with some goals. The midfield and defence don't score any or even or create much, leaving all the creativity and goalscoring to only two strikers which is suboptimal.

 

[el3mel]

Yeah his level has dropped recently, but the good thing is that even then he's been on the scoresheet while playing poorly, same as Rashford. Now that Rashford is out and he's the only real threat, that may not be the case anymore.



When Martial was out, Rashford only scored 1 non-penalty goal, and I think 2 goals in total. In that time period, we didn't score more than 1 goal in any game. One he was back, we scored three, with him and Rashford getting on the scoresheet.

Of course those sorts of things will be forgotten since it was a while ago, but at the time people were very frustrated with Rashford, wanting to "burst his bubble". He became more consistent with Martial playing alongside him, without him he struggled for sure.

Rashford was really in a pretty poor form back then, I agree, but both of them had poor games also while playing together, so I don't think it's anything related, and imo Martial hasn't really been that exceptional since he returned from injury. He had few great games, but nothing really extraordinary for the majority of time.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Rashford was really in a pretty poor form back then, I agree, but both of them had poor games also while playing together, so I don't think it's anything related, and imo Martial hasn't really been that exceptional since he returned from injury. He had few great games, but nothing really extraordinary for the majority of time.

I think the key part of this is that when either was having a poor game, the other could step in and score the first goal, which eases pressure on us every time. And once that happens the other would somehow manage to get on the scoresheet. It was very nice to watch them taking turns stepping up like that.

But once one is out, the pressure exponentially increases on the other to get the first, and winning goals. All that while being closely marked as the main (and usually only) goal threat. Midfield doesn't score much nor the defence, so it basically all falls on one man's shoulders to score all the goals. Unreasonable IMO.

And I kinda agree he hasn't been too flashy or eye-catching, doesn't dribble as much as before, etc. But he's playing a much more supporting, work-rate intensive role which, as we've seen, is not appreciated so much until he's out and we struggle for goals.

 

[Raven]

Was a decent post and I do think you might have a point, but in my book he has been pretty bad for 3 games. He wasn't exactly great before that, but these last games he has been poor for his standards. There is nothing wrong with admitting that.

Agreed, I'm a believer in form.

 

[el3mel]

I think the key part of this is that when either was having a poor game, the other could step in and score the first goal, which eases pressure on us every time. And once that happens the other would somehow manage to get on the scoresheet. It was very nice to watch them taking turns stepping up like that.

But once one is out, the pressure exponentially increases on the other to get the first, and winning goals. All that while being closely marked as the main (and usually only) goal threat. Midfield doesn't score much nor the defence, so it basically all falls on one man's shoulders to score all the goals. Unreasonable IMO.

And I kinda agree he hasn't been too flashy or eye-catching, doesn't dribble as much as before, etc. But he's playing a much more supporting, work-rate intensive role which, as we've seen, is not appreciated so much until he's out and we struggle for goals.

Good points here about the pressure aspect. Can't disagree with it. I also think his work rate has improved a lot this season. Unfortunately, I still think he needs improve lot on the consistency part, otherwise I still think it would be too hard to see him as a long term striker option.

 

[Bebestation]

I think the key part of this is that when either was having a poor game, the other could step in and score the first goal, which eases pressure on us every time. And once that happens the other would somehow manage to get on the scoresheet. It was very nice to watch them taking turns stepping up like that.

But once one is out, the pressure exponentially increases on the other to get the first, and winning goals. All that while being closely marked as the main (and usually only) goal threat. Midfield doesn't score much nor the defence, so it basically all falls on one man's shoulders to score all the goals. Unreasonable IMO.

And I kinda agree he hasn't been too flashy or eye-catching, doesn't dribble as much as before, etc. But he's playing a much more supporting, work-rate intensive role which, as we've seen, is not appreciated so much until he's out and we struggle for goals.

Rashford is more of a natural goalscorer than Martial anyway & the same with Greenwood - our best goalscorers have been playing out wide and our most creative forward in bringing others in to play has been playing centrally.

People get confused assuming that just because Rashford is out wide that he is a winger & Martial is our goal scorer just because he plays centrally.

I'd say that as Ole has said our most clinical finisher is actually Greenwood, our most poacher like player due to his effort and work rate is Rashford & Martial is the best target man/support striker to bring others in to play. I like part of the forward tactics I've seen this season but Ole has only played one game with Greenwood out on the right when Rashford & Martial have been playing.

Now that Rashford is Injured everyone is going to expect Martial to be the fantastic goalscorer which he isn't so it's best for his sake he sticks to the type of footballer he is - the support striker & wait for Rashford to come back & until then play on the left wing & try create chances for Greenwood who is much more of a clinical striker than Martial. Otherwise this club, its fan base and this forum are going to rip him a new ********.

That's what Ole should do if he has any sort of man management ability - it's better for Greenwood's sake aswell now that he gets games as a CF than being put on randomly as a RW as a random sub every time we lose games whilst James, Mata, Pereira & Lingard can't do nothing.

Martial - Greenwood - Mata

 

[Renegade]

So Martial lashed that ball over the bar vs the scouse and missed those chances vs Burnley because Rashford wasn’t on the pitch? Got it.

it’s time we start putting accountability on some of these players. This is when he needs to step it up and take responsibility as Man Utd’s lead forward.

 

[meamth]

Strikers do have their periods of not scoring. You name it, Suarez, Nistelrooy, Cole... my point is, this is normal.

But during that period, elite teams have their goals coming from other players from upfront. We simply don't have a good supporting role for Martial since Rashford's injury.

 

[roonster09]

So Martial lashed that ball over the bar vs the scouse and missed those chances vs Burnley because Rashford wasn’t on the pitch? Got it.

it’s time we start putting accountability on some of these players. This is when he needs to step it up and take responsibility as Man Utd’s lead forward.

No, he didn't miss because Rashford wasn't on the pitch. Players missing chances is common, otherwise we would see 10 plus goals in every game. Good teams create enough chances to make sure those missed chances don't matter. To do that we need better players and better system.

 

[SmallCaine]

So Martial lashed that ball over the bar vs the scouse and missed those chances vs Burnley because Rashford wasn’t on the pitch? Got it.

it’s time we start putting accountability on some of these players. This is when he needs to step it up and take responsibility as Man Utd’s lead forward.

Yes shock and horror a striker misses 2 chances in 2 games, that never happened ever before to any other team.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Rashford is more of a natural goalscorer than Martial anyway & the same with Greenwood - our best goalscorers have been playing out wide and our most creative forward in bringing others in to play has been playing centrally.

People get confused assuming that just because Rashford is out wide that he is a winger & Martial is our goal scorer just because he plays centrally.

I'd say that as Ole has said our most clinical finisher is actually Greenwood, our most poacher like player due to his effort and work rate is Rashford & Martial is the best target man/support striker to bring others in to play. I like part of the forward tactics I've seen this season but Ole has only played one game with Greenwood out on the right when Rashford & Martial have been playing.

Now that Rashford is Injured everyone is going to expect Martial to be the fantastic goalscorer which he isn't so it's best for his sake he sticks to the type of footballer he is - the support striker & wait for Rashford to come back & until then play on the left wing & try create chances for Greenwood who is much more of a clinical striker than Martial. Otherwise this club, its fan base and this forum are going to rip him a new ********.

That's what Ole should do if he has any sort of man management ability - it's better for Greenwood's sake aswell now that he gets games as a CF than being put on randomly as a RW as a random sub every time we lose games whilst James, Mata, Pereira & Lingard can't do nothing.

Martial - Greenwood - Mata

Let's face it, from what we've seen of Ole, he'll most likely stick to his 4-2-3-1, put Mata and Pereira alongside Martial, and call it a day.

He's had so many chances to play Greenwood alongside Rashford and Martial, help them build their partnership, and eliminate one of the seemingly endless inadequate no. 10's we seem to always have on the pitch. He rarely ever did so, and now Rashford is out for the season so the chance may never come to him again.

I'm not expecting any tweaks in the system to help any of the players, and we'll likely struggle for goals in the coming weeks. Hope Ole can prove me wrong but I highly doubt it.

 

[Red_toad]

Once Pogba or Rashford is back, Martial will improve. He’s one of those players who needs a creative force alongside him. He isn’t a player who’s going to drag the team back from the brink, but he will perform better when those around him do.

 

[zenith]

I wonder what can a striker do on his own, working without a right winger, a left winger or any sort creative no. 10.Infact we don't even have full backs who are of that kind of quality to support a striker.

Pick any striker from our history and they would have struggled with this sort of pedestrian creativity behind him. I can only think of ronaldo who would be able to create and score goals on his own and is one of the GOAT.

 

[MuranoLover]

If he didnt miss that chance when 0-0 , we would have won . The difference is that we don't take our chances and we don't make that much as the top 2/3

 

[Renegade]

Yes shock and horror a striker misses 2 chances in 2 games, that never happened ever before to any other team.

against Burnley he was hanging outside the box most the time. Yeah strikers can miss chances and our creative players are crap but any top manager or ex player will tell you there’s big moments in games where the big players need to step up. Those weren’t chances where we were 2-0 up etc, those were moments that would change the whole game and he fluffled his lines. Those aren’t the only times either.

we’re Manchester United. We need to big players with big mentality leading our forward lines. How many years are you willing to persist with one of main forwards blowing hot and cold?

 

[Renegade]

I wonder what can a striker do on his own, working without a right winger, a left winger or any sort creative no. 10.Infact we don't even have full backs who are of that kind of quality to support a striker.

Pick any striker from our history and they would have struggled with this sort of pedestrian creativity behind him. I can only think of ronaldo who would be able to create and score goals on his own and is one of the GOAT.

Do you remember what RVN was playing in front of around 04-05 when Scholes was out? That’s not true.

 

[Freeney]

This place is really the equivalent of dr hyde and mr jekyll . Just a month ago Rashford was trash and Martial by far the better player. Now Rashford is the second coming of Thierry Henry and Martial not good enough. Rashford has probably missed 10+ sitters since last year and we have people saying that he is a better finisher than Martial which is mental.
Its quite remarkable to see opinions and facts change so quickly.

 

[SmallCaine]

against Burnley he was hanging outside the box most the time. Yeah strikers can miss chances and our creative players are crap but any top manager or ex player will tell you there’s big moments in games where the big players need to step up. Those weren’t chances where we were 2-0 up etc, those were moments that would change the whole game and he fluffled his lines. Those aren’t the only times either.

we’re Manchester United. We need to big players with big mentality leading our forward lines. How many years are you willing to persist with one of main forwards blowing hot and cold?

He's been hanging outside box for most of the season. It's not the martial's fault that manager refuses to change his style now that rashford's injured.

And about him missing chances, yes he missed 2 big chances, but again he isn't the first guy nor will he be the last guy who will miss them. All strikers miss chances, small and big, there is a reason the score lines are what they are otherwise every game would be like a tennis set with each side scoring atleast 5-6 goals.

What we need is players in defences, mid field and especially the no 10 to contribute towards our attacking play. Right now most of our creativity comes from the front 3, which has been further affected by rashford's injury. 1 guy can't carry a team. Same reason rashford looked poor once martial got injured.

 

[pratyush_utd]

I think the criticism is unfair because we create so little and the pressure to take them is insane. Unless we fix the problem of creating chances and not give away silly goals, I will refrain from judging Martial or Rashford. Rashford has been heavily criticiszed here during this season.

It's funny and sad at the same time that we have saying that we don't create chances and give silly goals away for so long now, and there seems to be no answer to that.

 

[Stadjer]

Once Pogba or Rashford is back, Martial will improve. He’s one of those players who needs a creative force alongside him. He isn’t a player who’s going to drag the team back from the brink, but he will perform better when those around him do.

Isnt that true for every player in the world? Messi might be the only one who can play without a creative force next to him... and even he is better when there is someone alongside him.

 

[Red_toad]

Isnt that true for every player in the world? Messi might be the only one who can play without a creative force next to him... and even he is better when there is someone alongside him.

No it’s not true for every player. There are quite a few who can drive a team on and create for themselves or others.

 

[JPRouve]

No it’s not true for every player. There are quite a few who can drive a team on and create for themselves or others.

Who are these players? In the history of the game there isn't a lot of them and they are all time greats.

 

[Feed Me]

When are people going to realise that the reason we are where we are is because players like Martial are considered amongst our best?

 

[Godfather]

When are people going to realise that the reason we are where we are is because players like Martial are considered amongst our best?

Not considered. Are amongst our best. Which shouldn't be the case I agree. He's not that special.

 

[JPRouve]

When are people going to realise that the reason we are where we are is because players like Martial are considered amongst our best?

You see I agree with that while I think that he is a good player to have in our top 18, basically our 11 starters and the main backups. A top team shouldn't have the current Martial as one of the automatic starters, he should be one of 6 forwards that can start when in form.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

No, he didn't miss because Rashford wasn't on the pitch. Players missing chances is common, otherwise we would see 10 plus goals in every game. Good teams create enough chances to make sure those missed chances don't matter. To do that we need better players and better system.

Exactly. Liverpool were a perfect example. They missed a number of chances but still beat us 2-0.

 

[Jeffthered]

When are people going to realise that the reason we are where we are is because players like Martial are considered amongst our best?

Thank you. 100%. This debate has continued, for years now, and will continue.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Can’t see him fancying playing on tranmeres pitch either.

 

[Red_toad]

Who are these players? In the history of the game there isn't a lot of them and they are all time greats.

I wouldn’t say Stevie G was an all time great, but he could be a force of nature and change a game. Keane is another, Rashford has shown such qualities this season. Adama at Wolves have such a player. Game changers aren’t rare.
There are lots of players who inspire those around them and can create opportunities for themselves and others from very poor team performances. They don’t need to be greatest players ever. They just need certain characteristics and a lot of determination.

 

[sherrinford]

When are people going to realise that the reason we are where we are is because players like Martial are considered amongst our best?

I’m not sure what point you’re making? The popular opinion here seems to be to replace him - as he’s one of our best players that’s an awful way to go about improving the team.

 

[JPRouve]

I wouldn’t say Stevie G was an all time great, but he could be a force of nature and change a game. Keane is another, Rashford has shown such qualities this season. Adama at Wolves have such a player. Game changers aren’t rare.
There are lots of players who inspire those around them and can create opportunities for themselves and others from very poor team performances. They don’t need to be greatest players ever. They just need certain characteristics and a lot of determination.

Rashford has not show such qualities this season and the fact that you mentioned him points to a big problem, you are talking about game changers which is what Martial and Rashford are, they can change a game in spots but they can't drag the team by themselves and consistently which is what @Stadjer alluded to. Rashford was subpar when Martial was out and he had to play upfront without creative support.

 

[Feed Me]

I’m not sure what point you’re making? The popular opinion here seems to be to replace him - as he’s one of our best players that’s an awful way to go about improving the team.

There’s a hell of a lot of people in our fanbase who constantly blow smoke up his arse.

He hasn’t developed anywhere near an acceptable rate since joining.

 

[Red_toad]

Rashford has not show such qualities this season and the fact that you mentioned him points to a big problem, you are talking about game changers which is what Martial and Rashford are, they can change a game in spots but they can't drag the team by themselves and consistently which is what @Stadjer alluded to. Rashford was subpar when Martial was out and he had to play upfront without creative support.

That’s debatable.
Rashford isn’t very good as a out and out striker, that’s not debatable, but he’s very good in his preferred position. If you’re stating he’s not produced any individual moments of genius this season, then good on ya, but you’re very wrong.

 

[Bebestation]

Rashford was rubbish as a left winger when Lukaku was a striker.