Fans planning Old Trafford walkout

[Inigo Montoya]

Got an email from MUST last night asking for applause on the 58th minute and a walkout on the 68th. Unsure if I'll follow, depends what the score is I guess.

That’s the problem ha ha!

We’re winning and Bruno is running the show, I don’t see a mass walk out

 

[Inigo Montoya]

If this continues, we won't even need a walkout. Empty seats will start showing up given enough time.

Somehow with the level of our fan base I don’t see it. We’d have to be Arsenal under
Emery for that to happen

 

[The Stain]

I disagree strongly. If people really want to make a clear statement then a walkout is about as good as it gets.

Some people aren't capable of seeing the bigger picture.

 

[7even]

Can this be expanded on though please? I see this 'football decisions' line repeated over and over again but very little context or substance to go with it. I have asked many a person to explain the structure of the club and scouting along with examples of specific decisions made and detail on who agreed what and when etc but I've had nothing.

I'm not disagreeing in full but other than general fan discontent and a lot of media hype, with pretty much fuels the fan discontent we don't get much solid information and this, along with hindsight and a lot of revisionism seems to be leaving people with a far worse opinion of us than I suspect we really deserve.

I feel I need to clarify, because this is the internet of course, that I'm not suggesting we have been perfectly run but when you say we can't make good football decisions and we have made mistake after mistake but most of these are in hindsight. At the time, a large majority of the fan base seemed optimistic or in favour of most of the decisions made with the exception really of Moyes and that Summer. Even then, it wasn't uncommon to see messages of general support, some optimism and getting behind him/respecting Fergie's request to back him.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/man...le-in-giggs-player-coach-albert-stays.370530/

In terms of managers, we have brought in Moyes, LVG and Mourinho prior to Solskjaer.

LVG came with a very good CV and if you browse back to before/at the time of his appointment, people we again generally optimistic. Certainly no overwhelming calls that this was a mistake or a bad choice. This was another decision that at the time, people felt was solid, sensible and could lead to success. Whilst not littered with success, LVG did bring a trophy to his time here.

Fast forward to Mourinho and this was a bit more divided but he came with a brilliant record and it was difficult to call how it would go. A good start and a second place finish along with the Europa league helped during his tenure but at the time of his appointment, he could easily be regarded as a solid choice. Someone who has a great CV, can come back in and steady the ship. Possibly a more short term appointment but one that made sense all the same.

Then if you go back and review comments after most of our signings, very rarely were they called bad signings or mistakes. The baord have seemingly backed the manager (with the exception of Moyes) and allowed them to generally bring signings in that suit their goal or style.

Under LVG we brought in:

Herrera
Di Maria
Falcao
Shaw
Rojo
Fosu-Mensah
Valdes

Whilst shipping out players such as Kagawa, Buttner, Bebe, Fletcher, Wellbeck, Anderson amongst others. All Ferguson players and all had been deemed not good enough, under performers or a flop. Even Fergie wasn't perfect I guess?

His signings were generally met with a lot of optimism - https://www.redcafe.net/threads/lou...cao-and-blind-unveiled-11-09-14.396414/page-2 - look through a lot of comments here

More general optimism - https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-rojo-herrera-di-maria-mata-bromance.396520/

People were generally ecstatic as bringing in Di Maria - https://www.redcafe.net/threads/official-manchester-united-sign-Ángel-di-maría.395387/

There were a lot of positives around Mourinho's signings - https://www.redcafe.net/threads/mourinhos-signings.424402/

Plenty of people were calling for Solskjaer to be given a permanent contract before he got the job. Our form and play was so good that he was backed more and more to get the job. Go and look at fan channels, Neville and other sources at the time, a lot of optimism around this as well. United legend, managed the reserve team, understood the club, the culture, you could tell the players respected him, the fans did as well etc.

Again, not an overwhelming criticism that this was a clueless move from the board and was a massive mistake.

Most of the decisions made, most of the transfers in and manager decisions to both appoint and dismiss have generally been supported at the time.

If the fan base and general football world, fan channels, pundits etc have generally supported a lot of these decisions then how can we look back now and accuse the board of being clueless? Change may be needed but clueless?

I could drag up more and more comments, videos, threads from other forums as well that supported a lot of what has happened - at the time - and it's important to remember this.

A lot hasn't worked out and we may well need to review the structure and get some more help in but to summarise, I think it's getting a bit out of hand in terms of accusing people of incompetence. People are almost trying to out do each other on how much hyperbole they could add in to how bad we/the board/Woodward are and have been that it's getting silly.

We're not in a great place currently but let's not pretend we've been calling everything out as and when it happened because we haven't. People BUZZED off signing Pogba. We've tried appointing managers that people have generally backed at the time, we've supported them with signings they wanted for a large part and signings that people were generally happy with. We've spent a lot of money on transfers, brought in some top, top players as well as some top prospects (at the time. Shaw and Memphis being 2 examples of players that were seen to have very high ceilings).

Our biggest failing has been moving from manager to manager who do not share a general philosophy. It's left the squad with pockets of different types of players and styles and we look now to be pressing reset and looking to put together a squad of players that even if we move Ole on, we can bring someone in who will be happy to work with them. Not have to look to try and ship out 7 or 8 and bring 7 or 8 more in but get sacked part way through doing so and so the cycle starts again.

It's easy for us to sit here and act like experts on a forum and we have the right to debate and critique but as I said, it's getting a little bit over the top now. I don't feel like we have made awful decision after awful decision it's just multiple things didn't work out, players didn't click or develop and throw in some blame to go in terms of the structure and I think you've got a LOT of different reasons we are where we are. I wish we could discuss these in a sensible, more detailed manner rather than literally hold Woodward up as the one reason we're in the position we are. Throw in the constant ad hominem attacks and there's almost no debated or discussion currently, just lots of tantrums and people with very short memories.

In short. Bad decisions as part of life. Water are wet and you want a more sensible debate. Thanks.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

ULPT: If you want to watch the final 20 minutes for free, go stand outside Old Trafford, you might even get to witness a Bruno Fernandes winner.

 

[Adamsk7]

Jesus christ take off the blindfold. It's been a shit show for 6 seasons now and our transfer policy is the laughingstock of the sport. Our owners are terrible, our manager is bang average at best and our players are inconsistent and lack leadership.
We are all over the place regardless of the baby steps we've taken. We just signed a player who should have been here last summer and an ex Watford striker on loan from China through sheer panic because of shitty planning.
To say everything is rosey going forward even though we have the same fools running the show is very naive.

Im not saying things are rosey, I am just saying that the reasoning has no foundation. You say Fernandes should have been here in the summer but Ole gave the reasons for that. Yes one of them was money but we have no clue what Sporting were asking - all I know is we got a good deal THIS window. I am happy with the signing.
You say we signed Ighalo due to shitty planning but again what evidence do you have of that? We were clearly after Haaland but wouldn’t agree to the release clause. I think again, that’s fair enough - we have never had players on release clauses. Raola is a cnut. We don’t know who our other targets were but I bet they just weren’t available in January - almost ALL players are not available in January, look how hard it has been for any team to buy. Therefore we made a last minute stop gap so not to waste money when we could get a target we want in the summer. Again, I think that is absolutely the right decision.

I totally understand why people are upset. I’m just saying that being upset creates agendas and I think many now have one and just can’t give valid reasons with back up that is anything other than paper talk or conjecture.

If someone can prove to me the Glazers have underspent, then fine. If someone can prove to me it’s their fault that the players brought in haven’t performed, then fine. If someone can prove to me that their support of Ole, after trying it with some of the most experienced managers in the game, is misguided then fine.

Problem is, nobody can. We are Manchester United but we don’t have a divine right to be at the top.Like anything in life, you try to make good choices but sometimes those choices just don’t pay off and that’s how I see it. Nobody could have predicted LVG and Mourinho would be trash. All I know is that I have been happy with the signings under Ole so far, I am happy with all the great youth we have coming through such as Mason, Williams, Axel, and Mejbri, I am happy with the improvement of players such as Fred and I’ll be a damn sight happier with our first 11 when we get Pogba, Rashford and McT back!

All in all I just want to support the team and be positive. As Yoda says, Anger leads to hate and hate leads to suffering.

 

[jem]

Im not saying things are rosey, I am just saying that the reasoning has no foundation. You say Fernandes should have been here in the summer but Ole gave the reasons for that. Yes one of them was money but we have no clue what Sporting were asking - all I know is we got a good deal THIS window. I am happy with the signing.
You say we signed Ighalo due to shitty planning but again what evidence do you have of that? We were clearly after Haaland but wouldn’t agree to the release clause. I think again, that’s fair enough - we have never had players on release clauses. Raola is a cnut. We don’t know who our other targets were but I bet they just weren’t available in January - almost ALL players are not available in January, look how hard it has been for any team to buy. Therefore we made a last minute stop gap so not to waste money when we could get a target we want in the summer. Again, I think that is absolutely the right decision.

I totally understand why people are upset. I’m just saying that being upset creates agendas and I think many now have one and just can’t give valid reasons with back up that is anything other than paper talk or conjecture.

If someone can prove to me the Glazers have underspent, then fine. If someone can prove to me it’s their fault that the players brought in haven’t performed, then fine. If someone can prove to me that their support of Ole, after trying it with some of the most experienced managers in the game, is misguided then fine.

Problem is, nobody can. We are Manchester United but we don’t have a divine right to be at the top.Like anything in life, you try to make good choices but sometimes those choices just don’t pay off and that’s how I see it. Nobody could have predicted LVG and Mourinho would be trash. All I know is that I have been happy with the signings under Ole so far, I am happy with all the great youth we have coming through such as Mason, Williams, Axel, and Mejbri, I am happy with the improvement of players such as Fred and I’ll be a damn sight happier with our first 11 when we get Pogba, Rashford and McT back!

All in all I just want to support the team and be positive. As Yoda says, Anger leads to hate and hate leads to suffering.

I get what you are saying but how can one definitively prove subjective things like underspending, culpability and misguided support of a manager? The only thing one can do is look at the big picture, which in this case is 6 years of consistent underperformance, as well as other things like the lack of action on getting a DOF.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

Woodward has made a lot of mistakes but no one can fault what he has done in the Summer and Winter windows. Also are the protesters Ole in or out.

 

[Random Task]

I disagree strongly. If people want to make a clear statement then a walkout is about as good as it gets.

It's long overdue, too.

The match goers have been relaying their discontent to the owners during few games with chants of "Woody out" and "stand up if you hate the Glazers". Organizing a walkout is the next logical step. The signings of Ighalo and Bruno may not have happened without the added pressure from the fanbase recently.

 

[Random Task]

Woodward has made a lot of mistakes but no one can fault what he has done in the Summer and Winter windows. Also are the protesters Ole in or out.

Woody didn't do nearly enough to secure the squad last summer in preparation for the coming season. We're arguably in this mess right now due to his incompetence.

He's lucky to remain CEO if you ask me.

 

[Kostov]

Fans should make a point and walk out. The club has been badly run for years, this should have been done earlier.

 

[Adamsk7]

I get what you are saying but how can one definitively prove subjective things like underspending, culpability and misguided support of a manager? The only thing one can do is look at the big picture, which in this case is 6 years of consistent underperformance, as well as other things like the lack of action on getting a DOF.

Think it’s conjecture on both sides to be honest so if that’s the case, the rational thing to do would be to judge on what we’ve seen recently and to me that’s two good transfer windows and support of a manager the players (maybe not the fans) love. Ole has been without his best player for most of the season, without his rising midfield star for the last couple of months and is now without his game changer up front. I think that, along with the age of our squad, can be pointed to for our inconsistency.

Let’s see how we do with Bruno and what we look like when we get players back. If we are 4 points off fourth by the end of the day then we’re ticking along ok considering and I’d be confident of a fourth place finish. Another good window in the summer and we’ll be a decent team next year. I do feel like the mentality is changing In the squad for the better.

 

[Kostov]

Woodward has made a lot of mistakes but no one can fault what he has done in the Summer and Winter windows. Also are the protesters Ole in or out.

How can you say that? Are you serious? The same was said after the summer window ended.

 

[Brightonian]

Im not saying things are rosey, I am just saying that the reasoning has no foundation. You say Fernandes should have been here in the summer but Ole gave the reasons for that. Yes one of them was money but we have no clue what Sporting were asking - all I know is we got a good deal THIS window. I am happy with the signing.
You say we signed Ighalo due to shitty planning but again what evidence do you have of that? We were clearly after Haaland but wouldn’t agree to the release clause. I think again, that’s fair enough - we have never had players on release clauses. Raola is a cnut. We don’t know who our other targets were but I bet they just weren’t available in January - almost ALL players are not available in January, look how hard it has been for any team to buy. Therefore we made a last minute stop gap so not to waste money when we could get a target we want in the summer. Again, I think that is absolutely the right decision.

I totally understand why people are upset. I’m just saying that being upset creates agendas and I think many now have one and just can’t give valid reasons with back up that is anything other than paper talk or conjecture.

If someone can prove to me the Glazers have underspent, then fine. If someone can prove to me it’s their fault that the players brought in haven’t performed, then fine. If someone can prove to me that their support of Ole, after trying it with some of the most experienced managers in the game, is misguided then fine.

Problem is, nobody can. We are Manchester United but we don’t have a divine right to be at the top.Like anything in life, you try to make good choices but sometimes those choices just don’t pay off and that’s how I see it. Nobody could have predicted LVG and Mourinho would be trash. All I know is that I have been happy with the signings under Ole so far, I am happy with all the great youth we have coming through such as Mason, Williams, Axel, and Mejbri, I am happy with the improvement of players such as Fred and I’ll be a damn sight happier with our first 11 when we get Pogba, Rashford and McT back!

All in all I just want to support the team and be positive. As Yoda says, Anger leads to hate and hate leads to suffering.

All very sensible. This place has become a misery echo chamber though, so this perfectly reasonable take on things will be treated like some kind of radical optimism.

 

[TheReligion]

Fans should make a point and walk out. The club has been badly run for years, this should have been done earlier.

Get a ticket and join in?

 

[Black.Ghost]

7even, bang on. I agree with most of what you have said. However, one example of a bad decision was Sanchez. How anyone could ever have thought paying him that kind of wage was a good idea is beyond me. At that point, we had experience of big names coming in and not performing and moving them on or being stuck with them for a while. If it was felt that he could be the difference, it should have been a lower basic wage and a big bonus structure in place for him.
For the most part though, most decisions were probably ok at the time. That being said, I have to admit, I’m not fully clued in to the decisions being made and what’s going on, the business side mostly being uninteresting - I follow Utd for the football. If I want to follow business development etc. I’d probably look elsewhere. Things like the Glazers taking out loans against the club, I’m not sure where this information comes from (I’m not saying they haven’t) would be a good example of the club being badly run.
I’d be interested to know what sources people are using for some of the information about the club.

 

[Adamsk7]

All very sensible. This place has become a misery echo chamber though, so this perfectly reasonable take on things will be treated like some kind of radical optimism.

I’ve never been much of a radical before so I shall enjoy that branding!

you’re right though. Sadly it is much easier to be negative about anything in life than it is to be positive.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

Woody didn't do nearly enough to secure the squad last summer in preparation for the coming season. We're arguably in this mess right now due to his incompetence.

He's lucky to remain CEO if you ask me.

Ole said in January he needed players and Woodward got them while Ole was happy with the summer window. He himself has said this. Ole has been allowed to clear out Fellaini, Lukaku, Smalling, Sanchez, Valencia, Ashley Young, Rojo and bring in Bruno, Harry, James, AWB and Igahlo. That is a complete overhaul of the team not counting all the youth that has been promoted. Ole has been backed to the hilt, there isn't much more Woodward can do.

As for him being lucky to be CEO, I agree with that. Moyes wasn't his doing and getting LVG was alright as well. But going from LVG possession to Jose counter attacking football shows a complete lack of long term strategy. Selling disney land to Klopp is bad. But not waiting till the end of last season before giving Ole the job is the single worst decision of his time as CEO.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

How can you say that? Are you serious? The same was said after the summer window ended.

He is doing exactly what Ole is asking him to. I personally don't like our business but this is what Ole wants as per his own words.

 

[jem]

Think it’s conjecture on both sides to be honest so if that’s the case, the rational thing to do would be to judge on what we’ve seen recently and to me that’s two good transfer windows and support of a manager the players (maybe not the fans) love. Ole has been without his best player for most of the season, without his rising midfield star for the last couple of months and is now without his game changer up front. I think that, along with the age of our squad, can be pointed to for our inconsistency.

Let’s see how we do with Bruno and what we look like when we get players back. If we are 4 points off fourth by the end of the day then we’re ticking along ok considering and I’d be confident of a fourth place finish. Another good window in the summer and we’ll be a decent team next year. I do feel like the mentality is changing In the squad for the better.

I definitely think we'll need to wait and see, but for now, I don't see last summer's transfer activity as particularly good. We spent a world record on a CB who at this point hasn't been a huge upgrade, 50 million on a RB who is excellent at one part of the job, while being suspect at the other, and we bought a prospect with potential. Given our needs, I think we didn't do nearly enough last summer. As for this transfer period, I can't really complain as it's hard to do much business in January.

 

[Black.Ghost]

It's long overdue, too.

The match goers have been relaying their discontent to the owners during few games with chants of "Woody out" and "stand up if you hate the Glazers". Organizing a walkout is the next logical step. The signings of Ighalo and Bruno may not have happened without the added pressure from the fanbase recently.

So maybe it’s worth seeing how the signings go, and actually at least make the new guys feel like they are coming to a united team rather than most divided team?
For me, not bringing Bruno in the Summer isn’t that big a deal. OGS clearly wanted to Pereira and Lingard a chance, which I don’t have a problem with. Two years ago, Lingard was on the cusp of greatness, he needs a damn good mind coach to get him through - for me, his head and confidence are clearly all over the place. Pereira hasn’t quite taken the next steps either and a loan out or sale is the logical option there. However, had one or both of them worked out, OGS would have been in a different boat and Bruno wouldn’t have been needed. For me it says more it’s been rectified now, they are recognising a changing situation and adapting. Yeah it took a bit long to get him in this month but the deal seems a good one in times of ridiculous numbers and salaries.
We are still far from perfect, and OGS may still not prove to be the long term solution. I wonder what the feeling would be had Fergie come back and he struggled to get us winning again as well.
Let’s see how the rest of the season goes, and take it from there. I’d rather we nail 4th (or 3rd) spot than anything else right now including Woodward or Glazers out. No, I don’t believe everything Ole comes out with, nor do I think we are fixed but we might be on the way.

 

[Trophy Room]

Some people aren't capable of seeing the bigger picture.

Enlighten us mate?

 

[Okey]

Got an email from MUST last night asking for applause on the 58th minute and a walkout on the 68th. Unsure if I'll follow, depends what the score is I guess.

Oh great. I'm definitely in then. I didn't suggest it only to back out cos of these signings. It goes way beyond that. Who knows if the discontent already felt played a part in our deadline day dealings. More discontent and who knows what might happen?

 

[Pughnichi]

Walk out becomes news
Sponsors like news
It’s like free advertising for them

Instead of walk outs
I’d prefer to see a massive Nike banner
Spread out across the Stretford End
Sponsors wouldn’t like that much
And Ed would very quickly be having a difficult conversation

 

[Adamsk7]

I definitely think we'll need to wait and see, but for now, I don't see last summer's transfer activity as particularly good. We spent a world record on a CB who at this point hasn't been a huge upgrade, 50 million on a RB who is excellent at one part of the job, while being suspect at the other, and we bought a prospect with potential. Given our needs, I think we didn't do nearly enough last summer. As for this transfer period, I can't really complain as it's hard to do much business in January.

I think there’s a lot of harshness around Maguire. To me he’s clearly our best defender and he has to be commended for stepping up and taking on the mantle of Captain. I feel we could upgrade on Lindelof and get a proper DM to take the load off him a bit and then we will see him shine. He was probably a £50m defender but we bought him from a Premier League team that didn’t need to sell and he was on a long contract.

AWB is young so I think the fact that he is already so good at one aspect of his game means that he can focus on improving the bits that need work. I also think he is hampered by not ever playing with a proper right sided player.

James was a punt for not much cash which may or may not work out.

I agree that we could have done with Bruno in the summer AND another Striker but I want the club to get the right players, even if that means missing out sometimes. Ole has said this many times andI do believe him and that philosophy.

 

[dove]

Walk out becomes news
Sponsors like news
It’s like free advertising for them

Instead of walk outs
I’d prefer to see a massive Nike banner
Spread out across the Stretford End
Sponsors wouldn’t like that much
And Ed would very quickly be having a difficult conversation

Nobody likes "free advertising" in a negative context, especially sponsors.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Cringeworthy. So small time.

Just keep taking it while giving them your money.

With this mentality the club is doomed.

 

[Paxi]

Woodward has made a lot of mistakes but no one can fault what he has done in the Summer and Winter windows. Also are the protesters Ole in or out.

Aye dead on lad.

 

[Paxi]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

If anyone doesn't feel like walking out. They're bleeding the club the fecking leeches.

 

[dove]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

If anyone doesn't feel like walking out. They're bleeding the club the fecking leeches.

Of course it's gonna have an impact on summer window, what did you expect?

 

[jem]

I think there’s a lot of harshness around Maguire. To me he’s clearly our best defender and he has to be commended for stepping up and taking on the mantle of Captain. I feel we could upgrade on Lindelof and get a proper DM to take the load off him a bit and then we will see him shine. He was probably a £50m defender but we bought him from a Premier League team that didn’t need to sell and he was on a long contract.

AWB is young so I think the fact that he is already so good at one aspect of his game means that he can focus on improving the bits that need work. I also think he is hampered by not ever playing with a proper right sided player.

James was a punt for not much cash which may or may not work out.

I agree that we could have done with Bruno in the summer AND another Striker but I want the club to get the right players, even if that means missing out sometimes. Ole has said this many times andI do believe him and that philosophy.

But I think they need to do a better job of scouting for these right players, especially if bringing in nobody means playing the likes of Lingard and Pereira.

 

[Paxi]

Of course it's gonna have an impact on summer window, what did you expect?

A supposed rebuild which involved a significant investment.

 

[Pughnichi]

Nobody likes "free advertising" in a negative context, especially sponsors.

I disagree
The whole world will know the frustration from fans isn’t because of Adidas but instead the Glazers. All the while, sponsors still get their product/image shown.

Nobody likes "free advertising" in a negative context, especially sponsors.

You could be right. I don’t sit on the board at Adidas. If I did though, I’d certainly take a lot more notice if one of our bigger partners were advertising our competitor.

 

[Catt]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

If anyone doesn't feel like walking out. They're bleeding the club the fecking leeches.

I don't know why you would think differently. Significant outlay will always impact spending at any club.

 

[elmo]

Gonna walk out on the 58th min is dumb as feck. Don't bother to show up in the first place and it'll hit harder because it's a televised match.

 

[dove]

A supposed rebuild which involved a significant investment.

We are investing significant money on players. I know people like to argue that we don't but in reality we do. We are constantly one of the top spenders in the transfer market. Also we should not forget that we make only ~£50m of profit each year. As much as I want the Glazers and Ed to feck off, some of the criticism of us not spending money is ridiculous.

 

[Tel074]

This walk out or lack of it sums up our support . We can't even unite once to protest against then scumbags .
I will be leaving today and I couldn't care less if Bruno gets brought on a minute before the walk out . This is way above Bruno and any other player and honestly I'm gutted alot of fans won't back the walk out

 

[Tel074]

Gonna walk out on the 58th min is dumb as feck. Don't bother to show up in the first place and it'll hit harder because it's a televised match.

A walk out looks great for the protesters because the cameras will show everyone walk out

 

[elmo]

Woodward has made a lot of mistakes but no one can fault what he has done in the Summer and Winter windows. Also are the protesters Ole in or out.

You mean delaying transfers until it's clear it's desperate?

He's a huge reason why we're playing with such a thin squad which lacks quality throughout.

 

[elmo]

A walk out looks great for the protesters because the cameras will show everyone walk out

You think a 10 sec shot of people walking out is going to affect much?

Showing a half empty stadium throughout the entire game hits harder. Walking out midway serves little purpose.