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SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
watch Trump live if you fancy it
Well I hope they drop, and quickly, we need some light at the end of the tunnel in Italy, as everyone else is in Europe is potentially in the same boat, just the timings are different, but may be Italy has got more deadly strain, and other countries won't suffer this, I live in hope anyway.
Sure, the Chinese authorities have never ever lied. They are the beacon of freedom of press, freedom of speech and human rights.
It's clear you haven't read a word in this blog, or the 'about' section on the author's background.
Even the Chinese authorities themselves admitted that they were wrong to threaten the whistle-blower, after a huge public uproar:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-coronavirus-whistleblower-doctor-li-wenliang
I wonder why their administration have a Central Propaganda Department
Just as a small exercise, what sources do you find unbiased?
Official numbers of new infections and deaths in Italy today: 6557/793
Just shocking.
Just shocking.
I pray, I really do, then the next problem of working out how to release people back to their lives with be upon you, but the relief of seeing the numbers drop will be massive.
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Ok we’ll all try to find articles from Beijing Daily just for you.
Source?
The international diplomatic repercussions and ramifications of this can wait. When the time comes, and true evidence is found on what really happened, Im sure massive actions will be taken.
But for now wasting any energy blaming any nation is not a great use of time or emotion.
So sad to see the numbers coming out of Italy. Been to those areas of Northern Italy many times and just love the place. I dearly hope it starts to get better soon.
The depressing thing is it's not looking good for other countries around Europe either.
The depressing thing is it's not looking good for other countries around Europe either.
I found some data regarding the age structure of the deceased in Italy. As of 19 March:
0-29 - none
30-39 - 5
40-49 - 12
50-59 - 56
60-69 - 173
70-79 - 707
80-89 - 852
90+ - 198
70% of the deceased were men. Only three people are confirmed to have died exclusively from Covid-19 (no previous illnesses). All five from the 30-39 bracket had pre-existing conditions.
(Source: Istituto Superiore Di Sanità)
0-29 - none
30-39 - 5
40-49 - 12
50-59 - 56
60-69 - 173
70-79 - 707
80-89 - 852
90+ - 198
70% of the deceased were men. Only three people are confirmed to have died exclusively from Covid-19 (no previous illnesses). All five from the 30-39 bracket had pre-existing conditions.
(Source: Istituto Superiore Di Sanità)
I'm somewhat surprised that Pence and Trump are in the same room all the time. If the worst happens it means that both could be incapacitated at the same time.
Why is it so concentrated in the north of Italy? I'm not hearing much reporting on the south of the country.
The government needs to step in regarding people shopping. I just wandered over to my local Tesco (not a Metro or Express but a 5 mins walk from my flat) for a bottle of wine and there was no meat, fruit or veg at all. People just can't be trusted not to be selfish cnuts.
Thankfully there was plenty of wine.
Thankfully there was plenty of wine.
I fully agree. However I know the world’s reliance on China for investment and supply chain. Also I see Italians praising China and condemning their European neighbors because China is “helping” them. And I fear when it’s all done for the world’s government business will take priority, for those effected token gestures by the Chinese government will shut them up.
I think the north had lots of tourism from China, and other business.
Also the North is where the power is and they kind of look down on south.
Are the Uk figures out?
Because that's where the epidemy is centered, it's pretty much the same story everywhere. All countries have one or two areas that are really affected.
Have just done some googling. The Daily Telegraph is reporting this, so it must be true
When I was little I desperately yearned for an exotic blood group; O for Ordinary sounded so...ordinary. This news has completely changed my outlook. Even though even the Telegraph says it might all be a coincidence.
Apologies if already seen but just got sent this.
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What a terrible eventuality. Who's next in line if they are out of action?
So Phuket and rest of Thailand including Bangkok is finally reaching lock down status: In Phuket, all bars, restaurants, massage spas, gyms and other places of social gathering have been closed. The gym I was training at and surrounding area of amenities shut down yesterday. Most tourists panic fled since last weekend.
So I essentially have the whole island to myself. And my flight isn't til next Wednesday 25th (when my visa also runs out). Every tourist related business is cutting prices for the few of us the remain.
So have checked into a stunning beach and sunset facing 5* hotel for £35 per night and will enforce physical distancing from here til my flight home to the madness of London next Wednesday. The beach in front normally has 500 people. Today there were 6 of us.
Have been getting so much valuable information on wagers happening in UK and Europe from this thread - thanks all for keeping me informed!
So I essentially have the whole island to myself. And my flight isn't til next Wednesday 25th (when my visa also runs out). Every tourist related business is cutting prices for the few of us the remain.
So have checked into a stunning beach and sunset facing 5* hotel for £35 per night and will enforce physical distancing from here til my flight home to the madness of London next Wednesday. The beach in front normally has 500 people. Today there were 6 of us.
Have been getting so much valuable information on wagers happening in UK and Europe from this thread - thanks all for keeping me informed!
@SnowRoll if I bother reading through that blog would you at least confirm to me I will find info on these arrested doctors, etc. It seems interesting, but the first entry added nothing to my knowledge, in fact it just reinforced what I said. Local mistakes (the sort more likely to happen in a country like China, I admit), but very questionable difference in the end result. No country in the world would enforce a lockdown and declare a pandemic so quickly based on the opinions of a few doctors. Methods may be different (silencing vs ignoring them) but this has happened all over the world, not just China.
I also struggle with the "China did x" unless you're looking at the Central Government and their policies.
Would it make sense to say "US has hidden x" based on the actions of a random Governor of a random state, specially when these actions were not validated by the Federal government?
There is a strong anti-China bias surging me, and it concerns me for two things:
- It's bad on it's own
- It will not allow us to properly adress the issue that most directly relates to us, in our countries. Who the feck is leading us, where, and how? When this is all over, who will stand to trial for the negligent deaths?
I care nothing about China's human rights issues or wether they're a beacon right now. I care about their concrete actions in this specific instance. And what they've done was accidently create an outbreak, study it, learn to contain it, and share all this information witg the west.
Will they be due reparations? I'm not an expert on international diplomacy, but I would have no qualms with that. What concerns me is using them as a scapegoat, which is a quite different thing.
My sources are, in many cases, the same as yours, which is basically everything. There are, for example, rather consensual (and well sourced) timelines of the events in google, wikipedia, etc.
Most of them include what went wrong and the incongruencies from the Chinese. But, after studying them systematically, you get a very different idea than the one you get from studying random pieces of journalism specifically chosen to sustain a point you're already biased towards.
I also struggle with the "China did x" unless you're looking at the Central Government and their policies.
Would it make sense to say "US has hidden x" based on the actions of a random Governor of a random state, specially when these actions were not validated by the Federal government?
There is a strong anti-China bias surging me, and it concerns me for two things:
- It's bad on it's own
- It will not allow us to properly adress the issue that most directly relates to us, in our countries. Who the feck is leading us, where, and how? When this is all over, who will stand to trial for the negligent deaths?
I care nothing about China's human rights issues or wether they're a beacon right now. I care about their concrete actions in this specific instance. And what they've done was accidently create an outbreak, study it, learn to contain it, and share all this information witg the west.
Will they be due reparations? I'm not an expert on international diplomacy, but I would have no qualms with that. What concerns me is using them as a scapegoat, which is a quite different thing.
My sources are, in many cases, the same as yours, which is basically everything. There are, for example, rather consensual (and well sourced) timelines of the events in google, wikipedia, etc.
Most of them include what went wrong and the incongruencies from the Chinese. But, after studying them systematically, you get a very different idea than the one you get from studying random pieces of journalism specifically chosen to sustain a point you're already biased towards.
I think it's Pelosi
What it seems you won't do, is retort to any of the points I made to you, on a essay that required of me nearly 30 minutes of my time, hundreds of hours of studying this pandemic, and tens of thousands of hours of professional knowledge.
I suspect USA will force all their companies to relocate low wage manufacturing sites into India and sub continent and Mexico, as a form of retaliation if China can be proven to have been strategically culpable for this.
This is the start of massive shift global geo political relations, and the way we as mankind live out our existence on the planet that we share with other humans and species.
But as I said, thats for the months and years ahead.
I noticed that he completely ignored your detailed response.
Harrowing numbers from Italy.
I fear for anyone going to an NHS hospital in 3-4 weeks time with the few beds and ICU beds we have compared to almost anyone in so called developed countries. Some good news is the NHS has struck a deal with private hospitals to acquire more beds, staff and ventilators.
UK deaths are 233, up by 53
I fear for anyone going to an NHS hospital in 3-4 weeks time with the few beds and ICU beds we have compared to almost anyone in so called developed countries. Some good news is the NHS has struck a deal with private hospitals to acquire more beds, staff and ventilators.
UK deaths are 233, up by 53
New York figures are impressive they already have 10k cases.
Neither of those countries are known for their sanitary standards either, and the swine flu started in Mexico a decade ago so that's a no go.
There is nothing to retort about, what you said is factual and documented. One thing that I maybe missed in your post is that chinese authorities believe that the first case was around mid-November but as you said they used hindsight to make that conclusion. An other thing that I find interesting and maybe you have some info about it, the case from December 1st isn't linked to the Wuhan market which apparently expended the research of the source beyond the market and maybe Wuhan?
I was in hospital last night. Process was as follows;
1. First seen by nurse, people isolating in reception. Was quiet (thought this was strange).
2. Then we were sent to the second part of hospital to see GP. Put in our own room isolated from people.
3. Then admitted to A&E ward. Nurses were extremely stressed. 15 beds all in use, 2 people sitting on a chair on the side including my mum. I felt overwhelmed standing there watching all of this.
4. Did all the tests then was sent home. 6 hours that all took.
In that moment, everyone looked like they had some sort of respiratory issue, a lot of people with horrible coughs. A man opposite us, Dr was speaking to his family on mobile as he couldn't speak english but they said we can't rule out coronavirus due to his symptoms.
The nurses and Dr's look genuinely scared. I've tried to be positive since this started but I just can't anymore after seeing just a glimpse yesterday.
It be good to have advice on how to deal with the symptoms, read stories of people who have had it, various things like breathing into paper bags because feels like they couldn’t breathe. Should I get some paper bags ready?
I was dreading those numbers from Italy, seems out of control still there.
Scary. The poor guy sounds broken.
well then the west will have to dramatically downgrade its standards of "commoditised luxury" if it has to bring manufacturing back into their own nations.
My brain isn't big enough to think through the ramifications of this, if the world decides to penalise China for this.
Yes, I think that "earliest" known case was pushed back to November, but wasn't sure so I kept to the latest info I had myself. I haven't looked into the beginning of the pandemic for about a week, so am not sure what progress is being made there (it seems more academic than practical right now - it will be important in the future to prevent similar things).
And yes, I know there was a missing link between the 1st December guy and the market.
CNN just flashed over 800 deaths in Italy