SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Skills

Snitch
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Jan 17, 2012
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Yeah but you use the same entrance and exit presumably? You'll flick the light on and off, touch the door handles. Incidentally, I was paying attention to what I touch in the house and I've fecking gave up after a while -- it started giving an anxiety because I was literally touching fecking everything without realising really.
Yeah the door handles is what I'm really worried about. Lights are all controlled by motion sensors in the communal areas
 

Smores

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If school closures were always happening but timing was the factor, why weren't preparations made prior to the announcement? What the heck was the education minister doing for the last 2 month? Everything seems to be made up as they go along right now
 

horsechoker

The Caf's Roy Keane.
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If school closures were always happening but timing was the factor, why weren't preparations made prior to the announcement? What the heck was the education minister doing for the last 2 month? Everything seems to be made up as they go along right now
Seems?
 

Simbo

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None of that is true.

Let me explain you how things work in Medicine.

- Doctors treat patients, even when they don't know what they have. One of these conditions would be called "pneumonia of unknown etiology" or something to that effect. It happens pretty often, here and there.

- By mid-December doctors in Wuhan got concerned about a cluster of patients with this sort of pneumonia; on the 18th there were 8 patients identified. One patient isn't enough, neither are two... You, as a frontline doctor, need a reasonable amount of "strange" clinical cases to even realize something is wrong, so that the specialists who study this kind of outbreak can be called upon to act.

- Genetics, mode of transmission, epidemiology, take some time to study. There may have been many occasions where perhaps wrong decisions were made and time was lost but this is not only expected, it's unavoidable. It takes time to be sure what you're dealing with.

- China started imposing measures in Wuhan very fast, and by 23rd January the city was in full lockdown. This was insanely swift, given that the knowledge of the disease was still being compiled. The results are there for everyone to see. They contained it, after extending measures to other cities. They took maybe two weeks to decide this. When you compare the magnitude of the decision (Economics), and how long western countries are taking to make the same decisions, there is no way it's hypocritical to criticize western leaders. They were far slower, with plenty more information. Do you really think if the outbreak had been in one of these countries it would have been better contained than China? No way.

- After all this is done, "backtracing" allowed them to conclude that the first confirmed patient was in the 1st of December. This is hindsight. Not knowledge at the time. We may even conclude in the future that first patients were in October in some random village in the mountains. Without large clusters it would be natural they would have gone undetected on a national scale, let alone studied. This is why you "heard" of a virus in November. You heard it now, not then.

- No doctors were arrested, or at least there is no reasonable evidence pointing towards this. What we do know is that a doctor, named Li Wenliang, was among the first persons to understand the world-changing nature of the outbreak being studied and try to speak publicly about it. I don't even know if he realized this because he had access to higher-level preliminary information or just out of his own reasoning (just like many "early warner" doctors did a bit everywhere - including, modesty aside, me in my own country, at a much lower and quieter level).

- Li Wenliang wasn't arrested. He was called by local government officials and told to shut up. Then he returned to his normal life and work, util he got ill and died - in absolute freedom (well, as absolute as freedom can be in a country like China)

- Silencing someone may look more daunting because it came from an autocratic country, but from a Public Health perspective it may very well be reasonable. I wish my government did the same around here with all the naysayers that have been causing damage. In hindsight, in China they were wrong, but the principle is the same.

- There will be a gazillion of unexplained small things in here, after all it's China, we are very distant from them, even at a cultural and communication level. It's stupid to conclude from these failures that they could have contained this. It's expecting more from them than you expect from your own leaders. All that matters from politics here is how they relate to Public Health, and on this, the Central Chinese Government has been spot on (so far) and fast. Mostof those "silencing" issues came from local government, run-of-the-mill local crap leaders, which exist everywhere

- Lots more to be said, but it's tiring. I've been thinking of writing a well thought and referenced artocle about this, but have had trouble focusing.

[Opinion, not facts]
- Don't fall for Propaganda. Fake news of "8 arrested doctors" and country-wide cover-up have been popping everywhere for weeks, bit increasing severely now. For anyone who has been studying this for weeks it's pretty obvious what the goal is - deflect blame from western leaders, who were, with no exceptions, far more inept than the Chinese at protecting their people.
Thanks for taking the time to post this. Its human nature unfortunately to need someone else to blame.

Personally my opinion of China and the chinese government has quite improved since this began, I think they had mapped and published the full genome sequence of this virus internationally by the 11th January? I don't know exactly what is involved in that process but the speed still seems mind-bogglingly quick from only a few cases of pnemonia in late December.
 

17 Van der Gouw

biffa bin
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I'd have to go through the house. I'll do it but I'm gonna tell him to have the front and back doors open beforehand.

Gonna treat this like a game of "the floor is lava" except everything is lava.
The sad part is that he probably values your visit for the company and somebody to talk to more than getting the grass cut. Try to check up on him over the phone/over the fence sometime soon if you can.
 

horsechoker

The Caf's Roy Keane.
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To be fair, why is "made up" a criticism? Of course it's all made up, nobody really knows what's going on. We can all decide who guessed the best in a few months time.
True, my criticism would be that many governments have been reactive rather than proactive in stopping spread.
 

Sweet Square

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I want to see Sadiq Khan threatening to send in the police with flamethrowers
I get the london situation but what is the danger of two people playing table tennis outside ? The virus isn't floating in the air 24 hours of the day, people should be able to leave their houses at certain times. These clips just like look the local Italian mayors have a little bit of a mussolini moment. Also screaming at people to stay indoors but to then to run up to members of the public(Social distancing ?)isn't a good look.

Or am I missing something ?
 

horsechoker

The Caf's Roy Keane.
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I get the london situation but what is the danger of two people playing table tennis outside ? The virus isn't floating in the air 24 hours of the day, people should be able to leave their houses at certain times. These clips just like look the local Italian mayors have a little bit of a mussolini moment. Also screaming at people to stay indoors but to then to run up to members of the public(Social distancing ?)isn't a good look.

Or am I missing something ?
Considering the grave situation in Italy at the moment, it's paramount that people follow the restrictions otherwise the virus will continue to spread. So 2 guys playing table tennis might not be such a problem, it gives the impression that it's ok to be outside socialising. I imagine these Mayors are under a lot of pressure to keep the situation in their towns under control.
 

Moiraine

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These fecking idiots
Oh really?
You know that they can’t even fecking import life saving drugs and necessary medical equipment. There are sanctions.... because of.... don’t even go down this road

There domestically developed mobile app for corona virus for their citizens have been banned by google.... imagine!
 

Rob

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Danish PM just anounced that every meassure taken will stay in place until at least april 13. That will make it at least a month where the country is basically shut down. No schools, no gyms, no bars, no gatherings of more than 10 people, people told to work from home.
 

Prometheus

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FFS. All for internet points and attention.

For a moment I thought the message was going to be positive, like, the challenge is making it to the toilet without touching anything.
That's exactly what I thought was going to happen.

How are you gonna dress up all fashionable and walk with swagger only to find a toilet and lick it.
 

Beans

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Thanks for taking the time to post this. Its human nature unfortunately to need someone else to blame.

Personally my opinion of China and the chinese government has quite improved since this began, I think they had mapped and published the full genome sequence of this virus internationally by the 11th January? I don't know exactly what is involved in that process but the speed still seems mind-bogglingly quick from only a few cases of pnemonia in late December.
From what I've seen and read the Chinese people are very unhappy with the Chinese Communist Party's initial cover-up of the virus. There is a giant propaganda effort underway by them to deflect from this. I certainly agree the people of China in general and their culture is amazing.

https://www.hongkongfp.com/2020/03/19/lets-call-communist-party-coronavirus/

And let's not forget the forced organ harvesting.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...-organs-detainees-tribunal-concludes-n1018646
 

Smores

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I bet you could make some decent money from a drive in cinema right now.
 
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Exactly. Only
I work for a private independent so things are slightly different. But our headteacher is trying to climb the career ladder is doing anything to carry favour with the board.

He even offered to take other schools vulnerable kids and open over Easter until all the staff team threatened to go on self isolation if he enforced it.

He's seeing this as an opportunity to get a few favours in his pocket and is showing no regard to his staffs wellbeing
Then he's a nob who should be reported. If I knew him, I'd name him all over social media.
 

Beans

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Oh really?
You know that they can’t even fecking import life saving drugs and necessary medical equipment. There are sanctions.... because of.... don’t even go down this road

There domestically developed mobile app for corona virus for their citizens have been banned by google.... imagine!
I agree the US stance is shameful.
 

RedDevil@84

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From people hitting the beaches of California and Florida, to people roaming around in UK and to Indians dancing in groups on roads to show solidarity to medical staff fighting virus, it seems stupidity knows no nationality.
 

11101

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I want to see Sadiq Khan threatening to send in the police with flamethrowers
We have military helicopters flying overhead now looking for people on the streets. It was noticeably quieter this weekend than it has been in the past, despite the previous 2 weeks of lockdown.
 

Prometheus

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None of that is true.

Let me explain you how things work in Medicine.

- Doctors treat patients, even when they don't know what they have. One of these conditions would be called "pneumonia of unknown etiology" or something to that effect. It happens pretty often, here and there.

- By mid-December doctors in Wuhan got concerned about a cluster of patients with this sort of pneumonia; on the 18th there were 8 patients identified. One patient isn't enough, neither are two... You, as a frontline doctor, need a reasonable amount of "strange" clinical cases to even realize something is wrong, so that the specialists who study this kind of outbreak can be called upon to act.

- Genetics, mode of transmission, epidemiology, take some time to study. There may have been many occasions where perhaps wrong decisions were made and time was lost but this is not only expected, it's unavoidable. It takes time to be sure what you're dealing with.

- China started imposing measures in Wuhan very fast, and by 23rd January the city was in full lockdown. This was insanely swift, given that the knowledge of the disease was still being compiled. The results are there for everyone to see. They contained it, after extending measures to other cities. They took maybe two weeks to decide this. When you compare the magnitude of the decision (Economics), and how long western countries are taking to make the same decisions, there is no way it's hypocritical to criticize western leaders. They were far slower, with plenty more information. Do you really think if the outbreak had been in one of these countries it would have been better contained than China? No way.

- After all this is done, "backtracing" allowed them to conclude that the first confirmed patient was in the 1st of December. This is hindsight. Not knowledge at the time. We may even conclude in the future that first patients were in October in some random village in the mountains. Without large clusters it would be natural they would have gone undetected on a national scale, let alone studied. This is why you "heard" of a virus in November. You heard it now, not then.

- No doctors were arrested, or at least there is no reasonable evidence pointing towards this. What we do know is that a doctor, named Li Wenliang, was among the first persons to understand the world-changing nature of the outbreak being studied and try to speak publicly about it. I don't even know if he realized this because he had access to higher-level preliminary information or just out of his own reasoning (just like many "early warner" doctors did a bit everywhere - including, modesty aside, me in my own country, at a much lower and quieter level).

- Li Wenliang wasn't arrested. He was called by local government officials and told to shut up. Then he returned to his normal life and work, util he got ill and died - in absolute freedom (well, as absolute as freedom can be in a country like China)

- Silencing someone may look more daunting because it came from an autocratic country, but from a Public Health perspective it may very well be reasonable. I wish my government did the same around here with all the naysayers that have been causing damage. In hindsight, in China they were wrong, but the principle is the same.

- There will be a gazillion of unexplained small things in here, after all it's China, we are very distant from them, even at a cultural and communication level. It's stupid to conclude from these failures that they could have contained this. It's expecting more from them than you expect from your own leaders. All that matters from politics here is how they relate to Public Health, and on this, the Central Chinese Government has been spot on (so far) and fast. Mostof those "silencing" issues came from local government, run-of-the-mill local crap leaders, which exist everywhere

- Lots more to be said, but it's tiring. I've been thinking of writing a well thought and referenced artocle about this, but have had trouble focusing.

[Opinion, not facts]
- Don't fall for Propaganda. Fake news of "8 arrested doctors" and country-wide cover-up have been popping everywhere for weeks, bit increasing severely now. For anyone who has been studying this for weeks it's pretty obvious what the goal is - deflect blame from western leaders, who were, with no exceptions, far more inept than the Chinese at protecting their people.
Well done for posting this. I've corrected this misinformation from people several times on this thread, sometimes for people to just say nothing only to then repeat the same misinformation a few pages later.
Thanks for taking the time to post this. Its human nature unfortunately to need someone else to blame.

Personally my opinion of China and the chinese government has quite improved since this began, I think they had mapped and published the full genome sequence of this virus internationally by the 11th January? I don't know exactly what is involved in that process but the speed still seems mind-bogglingly quick from only a few cases of pnemonia in late December.
So has mine. It was only after I was curious to see what they did that I realised 99% of what people have been saying about China were untrue. I was amazed to learn that they informed WHO 4 days after the doctors reported the possible outbreak to the authorities.
 
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For anyone who wants to get a better idea of how their country (or others) is doing in terms of cases, deaths, recoveries (and where on the curve they are to be), this site is quite good.

You click on the country, then you get each key figure, linear and daily, plus some comments at the bottom.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
 

Pexbo

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If he follows through on this, America is absolutely fecked. These people need to be criminally accountable for "political" decisions which sacrifice lives over money.
 

Foxbatt

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We need someone like Roy Keane to go on a rant
Thanks for taking the time to post this. Its human nature unfortunately to need someone else to blame.

Personally my opinion of China and the chinese government has quite improved since this began, I think they had mapped and published the full genome sequence of this virus internationally by the 11th January? I don't know exactly what is involved in that process but the speed still seems mind-bogglingly quick from only a few cases of pnemonia in late December.
This is what I have been also saying. Dr. Li was told to shut up by the local Wuhan police and not the central government.
The fact that the Chinese public are unhappy with the government shows that they are not slaves or that repressed as some westerners think they are.
The fact that by January they have shared everything they know with WHO and the international community shows that they knew this was going to get bad and they don't want to hide anything.
The Russians closed their borders and started to screen people since January according to WHO.
What makes me really angry is that governments in Europe and North America had all these months to be prepared for what was going to happen yet did nothing at all. They have all these deaths on their heads. The Chinese can be blamed for the dead in China but they can't be blamed for the deaths in the UK or USA etc.
UCLA nurses don't have any protection at all. My sister in law is a very senior nurse and now in isolation with very high fever and coughing. She is now waiting for her test results which is going to take a few days at least.
The USA is still spending billions in warfare and other useless spending yet can't spend on protection for doctors and nurses.
 

Penna

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I get the london situation but what is the danger of two people playing table tennis outside ? The virus isn't floating in the air 24 hours of the day, people should be able to leave their houses at certain times. These clips just like look the local Italian mayors have a little bit of a mussolini moment. Also screaming at people to stay indoors but to then to run up to members of the public(Social distancing ?)isn't a good look.

Or am I missing something ?
I think they're just stressed out. The role of Mayor in Italy is more than just a ceremonial non-executive one, they basically run the smallest units of government (the municipalities, or Comunes). However, some Comunes are huge - Rome for instance is one Comune.

They have a lot of personal responsibility in times like this.
 

marukomu

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For anyone who wants to get a better idea of how their country (or others) is doing in terms of cases, deaths, recoveries (and where on the curve they are to be), this site is quite good.

You click on the country, then you get each key figure, linear and daily, plus some comments at the bottom.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
I've been checking that every day. A late surge from America but Japan have gone from 4th to 25th in three weeks. Relegation form that.
 

Nou_Camp99

what would Souness do?
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Does anyone know of any reputable sources which explain why the death toll within the US and Germany are considerably less (relative)?
Can't speak for America but I think I read Germany have been testing more people and also have more available beds and medical equipment to keep people alive. Basically they're still getting lots of sick people but are able to treat more. That's the only difference really. They are just better prepared.