No chance. Can you imagine the consequences to sport? Yes the big prem teams, F1, big boxing could live on via TV... But the lower leagues? Rugby bar Internationals would be a disaster.
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
Pubs and restaurants will have limits per floor space I think. It will be tricky to keep it but they will find a way - easier for restaurants as they can just limit the number of tables.
My company holds many company events across Europe with 100+ and mostly 1,000+ attending, from my point of view (financial planning) it’s really key to establish as soon as we can whether we will be able to do any of them in year to go as it will have significant financial implications. We are trying to do as many of them as possible online, they still cost money though it’s usually at worst 25% of physical events and some of them have been getting great feedback so far so I won’t be surprised if we maintain this format in the future. I’ve never really understood the purpose of holding so many small training events around the country when you could do it as one webinar. To be honest I couldn’t imagine a weirder year in my job, we literally closed the budget end of February and now all assumptions have basically gone down the drain so I have to liaise with 14 GMs from 38 different markets to do this again, with less than three weeks to manage all of it. Once I go through this I should be untouchable for this company.
Could well be. It will be difficult for sports but they will have to live with limited income.
We let the virus into our countries.
We allowed our people to travel for their spring/March breaks.
We didn't screen them when they came home.
Now look at us.
So you think pubs, night clubs, restaurants, cinemas, theatres, shopping malls should have all been allowed stay open, in every city all over the world. Presumably with metros, tubes, buses, taxis all crammed full of people as usual. To ensure these businesses continue to make a profit. Because no government should be allowed interfere with their right to make money. Under any circumstances.
That’s. Incredible. Quite remarkable. I always took you for a bright bloke too.
I understand the geo-political reasons not to antagonise China, and even if that was desired, there isn't any nation or organisation who has enough clout to make the point.
But the level of unpreparedness is something that will haunt developed nations for a generation. The fact that no-one seems to have war-gamed this, and have push button protocols to follow is unforgivable. Even in UK, we knew the scale of what was happening in Wuhan in late January. Surely we could have built a UK factory to make our own PPE equipment, or galvanised an army of people to sew them at home? Worse case is we would have had a massive stockpile, which could later be used or sold.
The other thing that has really disappointed me is the lack of true international co-operation. It seems its each country on its own, doing the best it can, with only sporadic sharing of information and resources. What would have been better is for all major Governments to co-fund global vaccine programme, sending their best teams to work in collaboration with each other etc etc.
I think alot of this has to do with Trump's America First and Only policy. Had Obama or even Bush Jnr been President, I think USA would have led the world very well. Trump not stepping up also means he wont let anyone else do it either.
Every country allowed the virus to get out of their borders.
Most except China and a few others had enough time to know what to do.
This is a natural disaster.
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What's the sacrifice? Why is yours more difficult than people living in slums or shanty towns?
What are people in UK doing that is any more admirable than any other country in lock down? Why are we so special?
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So spreading suffering is only an issue when it doesn't involve UK or USA?
Could sell every other seat for a while maybe? Many lower league teams nowhere near full their stadium anyway. Or allow people in who test positive for antibodies. Or a combination of both.
Sport is not a very important thing. There are more important things like you know, people not dying, or the economy not collapsing. And putting tens of thousands of people in a stadium is a very bad idea when there is a contagious deadly virus going on.
Big clubs will be fine, most of the money comes from TV deals anyway.
Smaller clubs not so fine, but what can we do.
People still have to enter and exit the stadium, which is usually done in a way that makes it super easy for virus to spread.
Nah no chance. Like think about the amount of people that would effect. If we’re talking purely gatherings effected were talking sporting events, music events, bars, pubs, restaurants, theatres, factories, train stations.
Then after that we’re talking jobs, we’re talking bouncers, catering staff, bar staff, stewards, photographers, drivers, factory workers, and then the actual sports people themselves (forget pl footballers) think about lower league, women’s football. Musicians, performers. I dread to think of the consequences for all of these people if they can’t work for 18 months. Financially and mentally.
Woahwoahwoah, woah. Woah.
She was asked to move along because, under her own admission, she had been sitting there for 90 minutes and asked to move along by the same officer 45 minutes beforehand. She misinterpreted the laws in which the police follow and who their oath is sworn to. She refused to move as she was "exercising mentally", which the officer did not believe was a suitable reason (her opinion on the terminology, frankly, means feck all at this point). She was cautioned that she would receive a fine, which she says she would refuse to accept. She was informed that she could dispute the fine if she wish, she still refused to accept it. She was asked to give her name and address, she refused.
Arresting her was the last option available to the officer, who had clearly wanted to find a less harsh solution to the whole situation. The reality is that these officers are putting themselves at personal risk to enforce the guidance of government to the best of their abilities, and the last thing they need is some attention seeking twat (which she was, look at how excited she sounded when she said "all these officers here because of me!") wasting their time.
The police are normal people. Some are wankers and some are just trying to do their jobs. At this moment in time their job is riskier. The last thing that we need is more of these fake "down with the system" types who think they can feck with people for a laugh instead of doing actual revolutionary actions. It's armchair activist twattery at its finest that puts their desire to make a statement above the safety of others.
One final thing. She sat on a park bench; so who sat on the bench before her? Did that person have the virus? Does she have it and the next person to sit on it will get it. What about when she left or arrived - she didn't just materialize on that bench from her front door. How did she get there? Who did she come into close contact with? All because she needed to meditate, which is something you can do in your own home. It was not a requirement for her to leave her home to begin with.
Pah, screw it. Maybe we're both right. There can be no doubt that someone with power will be looking at how this pandemic can benefit them, but I highly doubt it was Tom the Bobby.
We're in Marche. The Comune has also offered us masks now that they want everyone to wear one, but everyone's been wearing something for weeks anyway.
I think the Sindaci have been given authority to impose extra measures locally if they deem it necessary. Our guy is very hands-on, and has actually been very good in making sure that people in hardship get food immediately. Sometimes being in a small place is a boon, because everyone knows everyone else and folk don't get missed out.
What’s happening in France? Worldometers reporting 11,000 new and 1400 deaths. That can’t be right....
When did I say that the UK was special? Or that my sacrifice is worse than someone in a slum or a shanty town? I was talking about the UK because that's country that I live and know but there's no doubt other countries have made much more of a sacrifice than us and we've made more of a sacrifice than other countries.
Next time, read what I wrote. Not what you want me to have written. If you can manage that?
I don't think they would all have stayed open. In fact I think the vast majority would have closed. Almost all of them if a decent compensatory scheme were introduced.
The common sense of the populace would have lead to huge reductions in their businesses and policies such as the 80% furlough payments would have lead to them temporarily shutting down of their own volition.
I suspect the small minority that stayed open would have implemented measures that would hugely stem infection rates (e.g. taking temperatures on arrival, ensuring no-one showing symptoms was permitted, ensuring tables were a few metres apart and that the people diving were part of the same family, increasing cleanliness, enforcing use of hand sanitizer, requesting that no-one 70+ or with underlying conditions entered).
I believe wholeheartedly that we could have achieved almost identical outcomes with zero use of force.
Again I'd be interested to know what level of mortality would cause you to be comfortable with the aforementioned couple of limitations to civil liberties?
People also have a human right to highest attainable standard of health though, a right that obliges governments to respond to public health threats.
Sometimes different rights come into conflict with each other. Which, for example, can require those arguing for the protection of public health to allow restrictions on personal freedoms, or those arguing for the protection of personal freedoms to allow restrictions on public health.
In a context where a nearby country with an advanced healthcare system has not only seen its hospitals overwhelmed but also its crematoriums overwhelmed due to pandemic, it really shouldn't be so difficult for people to decide which set of rights are facing the most immediate threat or most desperately need to be prioritised.
Restaurants, bars and pubs can deal with 100 people. Factories can reorganize to separate better people while keeping the functionality. Sports and musicians are entertainment so they come dead last in the list of priorities.
100 is just a number so it could be 200 or 500 or 1000, but I think there is no chance that we will see concerts or sport matches with thousands or tens of thousands of people attending them. That would be nuts, we are not doing this massive lockdown to have to do another lockdown another month after we open. People have to learn to deal with the life after covid 19 until we get vaccinated. We are still at a very early stage, so the situation will evolve, but life won’t go back to normal for quite a while.
This thread used to be informative. Precisely when did it become so damn tedious?
Masks, war on China or the death of freedom?
Masks, war on China or the death of freedom?
So a majority of pubs, clubs, restaurants, cinemas, malls, theatres etc etc would close, with the hordes of people who would naturally assume this soft touch approach by the government implies the virus really is “just a bad flu” (remember that bullshit?) all crammed into the minority that remain open. What could possibly go wrong? “Identical outcomes” my hole.
Your hypothetical scenario is pointless. We’re discussing a real scenario. With a real virus. No need for any straw men. For what it’s worth, I imagine what we’re seeing in parts of France or Spain right now is about as bad as it will get.
Uhhh... yeah bud, if you want to appeal to his authority, he's been an editor for the Washington Post, written for Legal Times, The Atlantic, New Republic, Slate, The Weekly Standard, Policy Review, was quoted by Paul Krugman in the New York Times... he's kinda well known.
How about google the letter yourself. It's pretty specific and the use of it by people like you has been repeatedly called out for over a decade. Too bad you've never noticed.
The problem here is you’re too fixated on the actual sport and events, you’re not seeing the bigger picture. It’s not purely about that, it’s about everything that comes with it, especially jobs etc.
All the ones I just listed in my previous post, that working class people do on a daily basis to get through life, a lot on zero hour contracts, a lot of young people, a lot of migrants.
Not sure how those effected can just “learn to deal with life”. How on earth are they supposed to just ‘learn to deal with it’ for 18 months.
Maybe you just don’t get it because you’ve not been in that position?
The thing is that the day before the pubs were shut we were seeing photos and videos of places absolutely jam packed. We've even got posters here saying that they've lost the freedom to visit their friends. Well, yeah. Because you could spread a highly contagious virus to them.
People were given the opportunity to follow "advice" and some people ignored that advice so much that it needed to become something that was enforced. All the complaints about restrictions being put in place are because not everyone was taking this seriously enough, and it needs everyone otherwise we're all in danger. There's a big chance that we'll see further restrictions such as curfews and regional isolation, outright bans on going outside unless it's for your designated 30 minute slot to buy food with your ration card, giant ED-209 robots patrolling the streets and rabid police dogs patrolling the motorways. Maybe that last part should be the other way around...
If, in six months time, we're still sitting here with heightened restrictions and the robot bees are circling our house to take infrared images of our households to confirm that we're indoors, and Officer Tom is making us dance seductively for a half bottle of fresh water. THEN I'll happily take all the "I told you so" remarks that come my way. Until then, stay safe.
I'm not following you, honest.
Offices, schools, places of worship etc etc have been closed and you're hypothesising about your right to go to the pub?
And all that just to ensure that asymptomatic covid19 carriers can enjoy a pint at an out of home venue, whilst infecting others?
You're really losing the plot.
Problem is there may not be a choice to make before there is vaccine really. You allow those events to happen, you are potentially exposing yourself for another outbreak which would be even more costly than the one we are going through now. It’s very likely cheaper to offer compensation to those missing out on income rather than allow next outbreak to happen.
My sister is in the police force. She got coughed on by this cnut the other day.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.de...man-saying-super-spreader-coughed-4027535.amp
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.de...man-saying-super-spreader-coughed-4027535.amp
According to the exact letter of the law no, not allowed to socialise with people you dont live with or visit other people, I would but she is playing it exactly by the book mate
Jesus, the state of it. Least he’s in jail now.
Good on that man! Sticking it to the system! That'll shoe those pigs that they can't break down our Society!
/Sarcasm
Feck that dude, hope your sister and her colleagues are ok.
Disgusting, we had a case if this in hereford too, the chavvy little mare has been sentenced to 16 weeks.
I dont think it is the huge, gigantic sacrifice you are making out. It is a few months (most likely) of your life. We are not talking a life sacrifice, or being locked away in a prison for years, we are talking a few weeks/months at home. Some people find that easier than others - I am quite happy in my house for the most part, whereas my extroverted mother is going insane from the lack of constant social contact. Either way though, lets not pretend that it is a major part of your life in the long term, unless you are a terminal cancer patient (or similar) who very literally doesnt have that long left to live - in which case I entirely sympathise and agree that it is a major sacrifice and hardship.
Where do you honestly expect this sort of money to come from? The world is already going to be entering a major economic crisis as a result of this pandemic, you are seriously suggesting that the government can somehow fund the business operations of the country for weeks/months? Even if they could, it would simply mean taking vast sums of money out of other parts of the country that would then suffer. You have to focus first and foremost on the essential services, which is roughly what has happened.
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I think there is going to have to be a choice made. Awaiting a vaccine isn’t realistic. Difficult decisions are going to have to be made and I would not want to be the one to make them. But it’s clear that things are going to have to be put in place where those most susceptible to the virus are kept away from the core of society for a long time (until vaccine) like really, really strict measures. People will have to be held accountable for breaking such measures too.
I didn’t even mention schools and universities earlier, but these are places where people will gather in excess of the 100’s, whether that be in a canteen, playtime, playgrounds, assembly.
Offering money to all of these people for 18 months is also not realistic long term financially.
Ultimately the healthy majority in this country are going to have to go back out there and get infected. And that will have to happen within the next eighteen months, probably a lot sooner. It’s just all very complicated and there is no quick, easy fix with a fairytale ending.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/07/the-road-to-recovery-for-covid-19-patients
Long term effects sound pretty grim.
“They get better in time but it may take a year and needs an army of physiotherapy, speech and language, psychology and nursing staff to facilitate this,” said Hepburn. “The few weeks on a ventilator are a small footnote in the whole process.”
Long term effects sound pretty grim.
“They get better in time but it may take a year and needs an army of physiotherapy, speech and language, psychology and nursing staff to facilitate this,” said Hepburn. “The few weeks on a ventilator are a small footnote in the whole process.”
Very well said. I dont care in the short term about privacy if it means we can track/trace and limit the spread of this virus.
First post in nearly 10 years
