Sarcasm?When everyone says Vaccine I hope you all understand that it will be a nano microchip.
Sarcasm?When everyone says Vaccine I hope you all understand that it will be a nano microchip.
How does a body fight off an infection without an immune response? Other than with drugs? And how do we know mild cases didn't result in an immune response?Nope. You can fight off infection without generating any kind of meaningful antibody response. In fact, that seems to be quite common in the very mild/asymptomatic cases. Also in children.
Fair enough. I’m sure she’d know if there were any blow-ins.You may be right to an extent but my cousin was one of the ones I heard from in Donegal and she was raging that there was suddenly an influx
Heard someone today describe it as basically two different illnesses. The initial phase when your immune system tries to fight the virus, then a second phase (the one that can kill) when the immune system turns on itself.First it was hydroxychloroquine, then remdesivir, then nicotine (in france). Now it is:
https://www.foxnews.com/media/dr-jacob-glanville-antibody-neutralize-coronavirus
Says he hopes to begin trials in September.
Not all immune responses involve antibodies. Google “cell mediated immunity”.How does a body fight off an infection without an immune response? Other than with drugs? And how do we know mild cases didn't result in an immune response?
Children will be interesting to get to the bottom of. Did they not get it at all or was the virus far less able to attack them or ??????
Interesting debate! I am utterly ignorant but enjoying your posts.How does a body fight off an infection without an immune response? Other than with drugs? And how do we know mild cases didn't result in an immune response?
Children will be interesting to get to the bottom of. Did they not get it at all or was the virus far less able to attack them or ??????
I thought that while this was a primary method of removing virus infected cells that is was also accompanied by antibody production? I think I had it in my head that these both happened at the same time. One thing that gives me hope that there is an immune response is that so few reinfections have been reported. So few that they could easily all/most be false positives followed by infection or positive, false negatives (and still ill) followed by a positive test and/or immunity compromised patients.Not all immune responses involve antibodies. Google “cell mediated immunity”.
Mild cases can test positive by PCR testing a swab, without ever generating a serological positive i.e. blood test for antibodies
Kids are an enigma. No idea if they’re avoiding infection, or shaking it off quickly.
It was a genuine question which Pogue is now talking about.Interesting debate! I am utterly ignorant but enjoying your posts.
The area around St Johns Wood, Regents Park and Camden Town had a joyous carnival type atmosphere today. Was quite shocking, frustrating and yet predictable. It’s no wonder that UK numbers are amongst the worst in the world.I've said this before but it's because it's not a lockdown. It's too relaxed. I still know so many people who dont think it's a big deal.
Wuhan literally bolted people in their houses and it took them 6 weeks to get it under control. Italy has been a step below that and almost 2 months later is just about confident the peak is behind them. The UK will take much longer as long as everybody takes their hour (and the rest) exercise every day and nobody is around to enforce the rules on people who ignore them.
Where are you based? My mother works in British Garden Centres (formerly Wyevale) and they're planning to open soon. They're already doing deliveries and from next week they're planning to open up a bit more for click and collect.Why can B & Q open but garden centres can't?
I get dragged around a garden centre more often than I'd like and the ones I've been to are large establishments who'd be able to implement social distancing easily.
So as bad as all these trials are going, they're really for the very sick? However we could trial on the less sick and these same drugs could work?Fair enough. I’m sure she’d know if there were any blow-ins.
Mind you, I don’t think there’s been any community acquired cases in Cork/Done
Heard someone today describe it as basically two different illnesses. The initial phase when your immune system tries to fight the virus, then a second phase (the one that can kill) when the immune system turns on itself.
Right now all the clinical trials are in very sick patients i.e. in second phase. Drugs that fail at treating second phase may still have a use earlier in the disease, to delay viral spread within your body, or reduce shedding which infects other people.
Basically, more trials needed. Three words that get repeated every time anyone discusses any treatment option.
I think you have suitably warned about the source of your information. It isn't a suprise as this is what happens in trials and why we do them. It can take a while.I don’t ever post ITK stuff, but this has been relayed to me by someone who has the inside track on this, here goes:
Oxford Vaccine trial volunteers experiencing more side effects than expected apparently. Chris Witty apparently wasn’t very optimistic about how it’s looking so far, is what I’ve been told. I’m sure this will leak eventually and honestly I’ll take a permanent ban if it turns out to be bullshit.
I’d be happy to PM the mods as to who I’ve got this from.
I think the antivirals and other already approved drugs are tending to be trialed on the worst affected but I'm assuming the vaccine trials are following normal protocols of testing on fit younger people first.So as bad as all these trials are going, they're really for the very sick? However we could trial on the less sick and these same drugs could work?
It would then be about catching cases early enough if said trials work?
I'm based in Yorkshire.Where are you based? My mother works in British Garden Centres (formerly Wyevale) and they're planning to open soon. They're already doing deliveries and from next week they're planning to open up a bit more for click and collect.
Shame if it is true, but I haven't heard anything about the other vaccines in trials (some for more than a month). At the end of the day, we need one or two vaccines, so as long as one succeeds, the others failing won't be a big problem.I don’t ever post ITK stuff, but this has been relayed to me by someone who has the inside track on this, here goes:
Oxford Vaccine trial volunteers experiencing more side effects than expected apparently. Chris Witty apparently wasn’t very optimistic about how it’s looking so far, is what I’ve been told. I’m sure this will leak eventually and honestly I’ll take a permanent ban if it turns out to be bullshit.
I’d be happy to PM the mods as to who I’ve got this from.
Numbers match up. 0.1% of New York City citizens have died from the virus. If 20% are already infected, it means that there is a 0.5% mortality rate which seems just about right (in trut, it is probably slightly a bit higher because of under-reported deaths).I wonder if this is true? If so it is good news that 20% of NY has already produced antibodies
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/23/nyregion/coronavirus-antibodies-test-ny.html
So if you apply that maths the UK what would the infection rate be? As in how many do we expect to have been infected already?Numbers match up. 0.1% of New York City citizens have died from the virus. If 20% are already infected, it means that there is a 0.5% mortality rate which seems just about right (in trut, it is probably slightly a bit higher because of under-reported deaths).
I guess it also depends on how reliable the antibody testing is. I saw some suggestion that false positives and positives due to exposure to other coronaviruses may have confounded the results.Numbers match up. 0.1% of New York City citizens have died from the virus. If 20% are already infected, it means that there is a 0.5% mortality rate which seems just about right (in trut, it is probably slightly a bit higher because of under-reported deaths).
Yep. They're a kid who keeps coming back for extra pocket money. Bloody socialist corporations. Or somethingWasn't they on the verge of collapse beforehand ?
Knowing kids they probably smoke two packs a day.Not all immune responses involve antibodies. Google “cell mediated immunity”.
Mild cases can test positive by PCR testing a swab, without ever generating a serological positive i.e. blood test for antibodies
Kids are an enigma. No idea if they’re avoiding infection, or shaking it off quickly.
Just multiply number of deaths with 200 (if you assume 0.5% deathrate) or with 100 (if you assume 1% death rate). So probably somewhere around two to four million.So if you apply that maths the UK what would the infection rate be? As in how many do we expect to have been infected already?
Knowing kids they probably smoke two packs a day.
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There could also be random luck involved if they managed to lock down before mass community transmission occurred. Although I fear they haven't seen the worst yet.Interesting. Maybe they are still early phase. Can not fathom India not being hit hard by this there being so high density of people, million cities and 1,4b people.
Had the misfortune to have Pearson's nonsense crop up on my timeline. feck spreading it to other people, who cares about them? As long as you're alright, that is all that matters.
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Who is the Trump equivalent character in it?Just finished watching Contagion. Very scarily accurate.
The virus?Who is the Trump equivalent character in it?
Bizarre behavior. Just fecking stay home.This is what I keep seeing from Germany for weeks and people there keep saying it's not German people keeping the numbers low, also illegal hairdressing salons have been raided.
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I can only think of huge testing and contact tracing so those that do get tested positive take isolation seriously while others don't. If there's any hope in loose lockdowns/ light restrictions it's 100k+ a day testing and going to homes of known contacts of positives and testing them too. Meeting the virus head on instead of waiting for it to turn up at the hospital can be a way of keeping the economy going and helping not stretch the wards.
Just the same here on my regular running routes. Hundreds of cyclists 4 and 5 abreast giving no room to pass safely, or coming from behind only inches away. Obviously not from the same households either, so cycling together if one has the virus they all will, and their real households too. And photographers, just standing around oblivious to everyone else. So I'm off for my walk now, just as dawn is breaking.Bizarre behavior. Just fecking stay home.
Many Sydney beaches have been closed and reopened for exercise only a few days ago but people can't behave themselves so they are now closed again. My local go to exercise is the Bay Run around part of the harbor in Drummoyne/Lilyfield and it is almost unusable due to an influx of feckwits who can't socially distance and block the bike and walking/running lanes for everyone. Largely from other suburbs which is causing tensions especially as the response to polite requests to not walk 5 abreast is often a tirade of abuse.
It is the walkers that are the problem in my case as there aren't that many cyclists (why I used to cycle there) but these feckwits happily block the bike and walking lanes. Twats.Just the same here on my regular running routes. Hundreds of cyclists 4 and 5 abreast giving no room to pass safely, or coming from behind only inches away. Obviously not from the same households either, so cycling together if one has the virus they all will, and their real households too. And photographers, just standing around oblivious to everyone else. So I'm off for my walk now, just as dawn is breaking.
Probably the waste product.The virus?
Our immune response to this virus is what ultimately kills us.So far I don't think there has ever been a virus that our immune system didn't respond to. There are odd edge cases e.g. HIV which attacks the immune system and Dengue fever, where a second infection sometimes occurs and is then worse than the first infection. In the later case this is not because there is a lack of immune response. It is because sometimes, much later, when a person's immunity has begin to reduce the antibodies aren't enough to defeat the virus in a second infection but do bind to it enough to help spread it. This is the only virus that we have seen this for and there is now a vaccine that will make this irrelevant anyway.
What WHO is warning against most recently is issuing certificates to people who have had COIVD as if they are immune for life before we know what the immune response actually is. A very responsible and appropriate course of action IMO.
Matt Damon's left testicle.Who is the Trump equivalent character in it?
i watched it at start of the lockdown and couldnt believe they made a film about how this is playing out, 10 years agoJust finished watching Contagion. Very scarily accurate.
I think there is some suggestion that cytokine storm is killing some people but I think there are many other factors not immune response related - could be wrong.Our immune response to this virus is what ultimately kills us.