amolbhatia50k
Sneaky bum time - Vaccination status: dozed off
He was better than Ronaldo.Rooney was never actually better than Ronaldo. He was more mature, but he was never as talented.
He was better than Ronaldo.Rooney was never actually better than Ronaldo. He was more mature, but he was never as talented.
The way how you described this, it seems you are talking about post 2006 when both players became top class/world class. From I see the poster was talking about when they were teen.He (Rooney) also had an inconsistent first touch, equally low bottom level (that never got pointed out), and a top level that was never as high as Ronaldo. Ronaldos top level was pure magic. Rightfully so ? Where are you basing that logic ? Ronaldo is one of the greatest players who ever lived....that some English media wanted to build Rooney up into the white Pele, doesn’t justify that rationale....I will repeat Rooney was never actually as good as Ronaldo, Ronaldo toyed with Rooney at Old Trafford, Rooney should’ve been sent off because he did t know what else to do but lash out. Rooney was a great player for us. Ronaldo was always on another level though.
Did you watch football in 2004?He (Rooney) also had an inconsistent first touch, equally low bottom level (that never got pointed out), and a top level that was never as high as Ronaldo. Ronaldos top level was pure magic. Rightfully so ? Where are you basing that logic ? Ronaldo is one of the greatest players who ever lived....that some English media wanted to build Rooney up into the white Pele, doesn’t justify that rationale....I will repeat Rooney was never actually as good as Ronaldo, Ronaldo toyed with Rooney at Old Trafford, Rooney should’ve been sent off because he did t know what else to do but lash out. Rooney was a great player for us. Ronaldo was always on another level though.
Nah Ronaldo was definitely better in Euro 2004, the only thing stopping him winning young player award was his wink. But agree Rooney was better prospect in their early years (first 2-3 years), after all people said he was white Pelé, whereas Ronaldo, maybe new George Best etcRooney was probably a better player at Everton than Ronaldo was at Sporting. I'm surprised fergie only signed him in 2004 and not in 03-04 alongside Ronaldo.
It can be argued Rooney had a better Euro 2004 despite Ronaldo playing more games.
2004-05 and 05-06 Rooney was scoring more and had a ruthless footballing agression and drive to suceed but from 06-07 onwards Ronaldo just went a hundred steps ahead of him. It was weird.
I think you're confusing two years. The wink was the WC 2006, and it definitely was around that time that Cristiano was pulling away from Rooney. 2004 was the Euro where Rooney wound up with the Golden Boy award because he was considered the most talented teenager around, above CR7.Nah Ronaldo was definitely better in Euro 2004, the only thing stopping him winning young player award was his wink. But agree Rooney was better prospect in their early years (first 2-3 years), after all people said he was white Pelé, whereas Ronaldo, maybe new George Best etc
Oh it was long time ago, maybe I got it all mixed up then. Anyway, in their earlier years (maybe first 3 years), I remember Rooney was even a bigger prospect than Messi at the beginning. But turn out he didn’t improve as much as I’d expect. Whereas Ronaldo, he improves maybe 5-10 times from what I would have expect.I think you're confusing two years. The wink was the WC 2006, and it definitely was around that time that Cristiano was pulling away from Rooney. 2004 was the Euro where Rooney wound up with the Golden Boy award because he was considered the most talented teenager around, above CR7.
Possibly Rooney was a little complacent in terms of his development as a player simply because he was so close to the finished article so early. Ronaldo arrived with all the skill in the world but he knew what Portuguese players were known for, amazing wingers no finishers, and he saw things he clearly needed to work on straight away (thanks to guidance too).Oh it was long time ago, maybe I got it all mixed up then. Anyway, in their earlier years (maybe first 3 years), I remember Rooney was even a bigger prospect than Messi at the beginning. But turn out he didn’t improve as much as I’d expect. Whereas Ronaldo, he improves maybe 5-10 times from what I would have expect.
I still remember Ronaldo at the beginning, in his debut and first few matches, I thought we had new Giggs there, looks so electrify and refreshing. I mean, just look at my username and date I joined this forum, I was so buzzed at that time hence I use his name here. But then the next few years, I felt he was very skillful and entertaining to watch , but he was more like a showpony sometimes, and if you want someone to win the match, Rooney was definitely ahead of him. But somehow, suddenly Ronaldo transform into some type of super player, and becomes far ahead of everyone else in the league. Rooney never had a chance to catch up since.
I really think the wink incident pushed him into overdrive mode. He was worried about the reception he would get back in England and I guess the dude must have just buried himself into his work and then the comparisons between the two became less and less apt. It was becoming clear CR7 was on his way of being the better player. I just have to correct those who think CR7 was considered the best talent around from the beginning when that never was the case and I think a lot of people were surprised by just how good CR7 became, which is a testament to his work ethic. I think we all thought he would be a good, possibly great player, but no one in their right mind could have seen him becoming a guy that scores 50+ goals/season and keeps up with an alien like Messi. Fantastic career.Oh it was long time ago, maybe I got it all mixed up then. Anyway, in their earlier years (maybe first 3 years), I remember Rooney was even a bigger prospect than Messi at the beginning. But turn out he didn’t improve as much as I’d expect. Whereas Ronaldo, he improves maybe 5-10 times from what I would have expect.
I still remember Ronaldo at the beginning, in his debut and first few matches, I thought we had new Giggs there, looks so electrify and refreshing. I mean, just look at my username and date I joined this forum, I was so buzzed at that time hence I use his name here. But then the next few years, I felt he was very skillful and entertaining to watch , but he was more like a showpony sometimes, and if you want someone to win the match, Rooney was definitely ahead of him. But somehow, suddenly Ronaldo transform into some type of super player, and becomes far ahead of everyone else in the league. Rooney never had a chance to catch up since.
I think mentality and dedication would probably be the most important things. He was a hot head and cost himself and his team at times by allowing himself to be taken out of the game mentally. As far as his skills and physicality, like you said he was pretty much almost a finished product. Good passer, shooting technique with both feet, vision, awareness, IQ, he seemed to have it all. I think if he could control his emotions better and have an obsession with scoring and being the best, he could have gone further but it's not easy to change someone's mentality. I was just reading an interview with Hazard how he tried to have that obsession to score 30-40 goals per season but he can't help himself but being very content scoring 20 goals for the season, or if he scores a goal in a game and it puts the team up, it's enough for him and he's not looking for more. That's where CR7's obsession is so impressive, the dude is mad if he's 5-0 up but hasn't had his hat trick yet. I don't know if you can really teach that.I wonder what coaches would genuinely try to get a young Rooney to work on, in the sense of “development” rather than practice. Because to my mind despite all his success Man Utd never quite worked out and committed to what his best position would be.
I’d go back and watch some old games from 03/04 season, perhaps the fa cup final in 04 or plenty others like the semi v Arsenal or the last game of the season at villa park. People forget how good Ronaldo was in his good days, and how poor Rooney was in his poor days and regular goal droughts, before you say Ronaldo was merely ok.Ronaldo was an ok tricky winger. Those who think he was better there than tour de force Rooney are using hindsight imo.
But Rooney tortured the league, an all action number 10 while Ronaldo was an inconsistent winger, talented but inconsistent.I’d go back and watch some old games from 03/04 season, perhaps the fa cup final in 04 or plenty others like the semi v Arsenal or the last game of the season at villa park. People forget how good Ronaldo was in his good days, and how poor Rooney was in his poor days and regular goal droughts, before you say Ronaldo was merely ok.
Rooney was more physically developed, and more mature....I suppose it’s what you consider better. You could say he was better because he was more mature and physically developed....like say how Matic is a better player currently than Greenwood for the same reasons.....but Greenwood will be a better player in the future.
He never had Ronaldos ability, whilst having great ability, it was never on the same level as Ronaldo. If you rewatch games Ronaldo played for Portugal’s under 21s he ran the entire game with Queresma, or the game Rooney tried to kick Ronaldo off the pitch when he was at Everton because he couldn’t live with him that day.
There’s a story Jaimie Redknapp tells of bumping into SAF at Tottenham in 03/04 and pointing to Ronaldo....and Sir Alex said to him “he’s going to be the best player in the world”.
Sir Alex could see it from the start, it wasn’t workrste that set Ronaldo apart, it was his natural ability allied to workrate.
On a personal level I never saw Rooney as a Pele level talent, thought I must be missing something somewhere with his talent level, I saw him being as good as he turned out to be, even as a teenager, a brilliant player, for the club but not in the truly elite level due to his technique/talent level.
Sorry man, but that's not a great analogy. That's not at all what was happening in the early assessments of CR7 and Rooney. Rooney was just a better player in their early years together not because of physical abilities because CR7 was pretty tough even as a young player, and had a motor and speed to go all game. Rooney just had a more complete package that could impact the team more than CR7 could at the time, but don't read that and think that means CR7 was a passenger, he had a big role as well, but he was not as polished as Rooney and while you hope for the best as far as development, nothing is guaranteed .I’d go back and watch some old games from 03/04 season, perhaps the fa cup final in 04 or plenty others like the semi v Arsenal or the last game of the season at villa park. People forget how good Ronaldo was in his good days, and how poor Rooney was in his poor days and regular goal droughts, before you say Ronaldo was merely ok.
Rooney was more physically developed, and more mature....I suppose it’s what you consider better. You could say he was better because he was more mature and physically developed....like say how Matic is a better player currently than Greenwood for the same reasons.....but Greenwood will be a better player in the future.
SAF called Rooney the best player in England in the last 30 years the next year after the quote about CR7 you bring up. When Rooney burst on the scene, he was considered the best young talent. Whatever your memory is of him, I can promise you that was the conversation at the time, he came after CR7 but was more impressive at first. CR7 was getting attention mainly for his tricks at the time which sometimes created danger, and sometimes created nothing but a blooper, he was not the impactful young player Rooney was early on.He never had Ronaldos ability, whilst having great ability, it was never on the same level as Ronaldo. If you rewatch games Ronaldo played for Portugal’s under 21s he ran the entire game with Queresma, or the game Rooney tried to kick Ronaldo off the pitch when he was at Everton because he couldn’t live with him that day.
There’s a story Jaimie Redknapp tells of bumping into SAF at Tottenham in 03/04 and pointing to Ronaldo....and Sir Alex said to him “he’s going to be the best player in the world”.
Sir Alex could see it from the start, it wasn’t workrste that set Ronaldo apart, it was his natural ability allied to workrate.
On a personal level I never saw Rooney as a Pele level talent, thought I must be missing something somewhere with his talent level, I saw him being as good as he turned out to be, even as a teenager, a brilliant player, for the club but not in the truly elite level due to his technique/talent level.
Rooneys legacy has undoubtedly been harmed (and unfairly so IMO) by playing in the same team as Ronaldo for so long. Look at Rooneys career in isolation and its tremendous - a huge success story. All time top scorer for United and England. He is a legend of the club.I’d go back and watch some old games from 03/04 season, perhaps the fa cup final in 04 or plenty others like the semi v Arsenal or the last game of the season at villa park. People forget how good Ronaldo was in his good days, and how poor Rooney was in his poor days and regular goal droughts, before you say Ronaldo was merely ok.
Rooney was more physically developed, and more mature....I suppose it’s what you consider better. You could say he was better because he was more mature and physically developed....like say how Matic is a better player currently than Greenwood for the same reasons.....but Greenwood will be a better player in the future.
He never had Ronaldos ability, whilst having great ability, it was never on the same level as Ronaldo. If you rewatch games Ronaldo played for Portugal’s under 21s he ran the entire game with Queresma, or the game Rooney tried to kick Ronaldo off the pitch when he was at Everton because he couldn’t live with him that day.
There’s a story Jaimie Redknapp tells of bumping into SAF at Tottenham in 03/04 and pointing to Ronaldo....and Sir Alex said to him “he’s going to be the best player in the world”.
Sir Alex could see it from the start, it wasn’t workrste that set Ronaldo apart, it was his natural ability allied to workrate.
On a personal level I never saw Rooney as a Pele level talent, thought I must be missing something somewhere with his talent level, I saw him being as good as he turned out to be, even as a teenager, a brilliant player, for the club but not in the truly elite level due to his technique/talent level.
Exactly.I love Rashford and dont want my next sentence taking out of context. With that said I would be very worried if he is our best player within the next 5 years. if we want to be the best we will need a lot more than he is capable of. Looking at our team Pogba was the best player since his time here (de gea excluded) and even that was never enough.
Rooney was considered a bigger talent than Cristiano early one.He (Rooney) also had an inconsistent first touch, equally low bottom level (that never got pointed out), and a top level that was never as high as Ronaldo. Ronaldos top level was pure magic. Rightfully so ? Where are you basing that logic ? Ronaldo is one of the greatest players who ever lived....that some English media wanted to build Rooney up into the white Pele, doesn’t justify that rationale....I will repeat Rooney was never actually as good as Ronaldo, Ronaldo toyed with Rooney at Old Trafford, Rooney should’ve been sent off because he did t know what else to do but lash out. Rooney was a great player for us. Ronaldo was always on another level though.
If Ronaldo was a generational talent, his game would be far, far more rounded than what it has been for the majority of his career. I would say him, along with messi, Pele and Gerd Muller are the greatest goal scorers the game has ever seen. But the likes of Messi and Pele also combine it with a level of allround play that ronaldo has never reached close to. Take most games (07-09 at united and 10-18 at Madrid) in which ronaldo hasnt scored a goal and you wont even notice him.wow Rooney had everything and Ronaldo was merely a kid with tricks and no end product. ok.
id put it like this, Rooney had end product, not great end product....his single season stats were only great in one season, but end product. Ronaldo had everything....he just needed to put it all together. Once Ronaldo became the sum of his parts Rooney was merely an aide, he couldn’t live at that level.....only Messi could. Rooney was never as talented. He was English. Rooney never had nearly everything, but he was a great player. Just not a generational talent like Ronaldo
Spot onRonaldo was an ok tricky winger. Those who think he was better there than tour de force Rooney are using hindsight imo.
I don't think I've ever seen a player as good as Rooney from the age of 16-18. I wouldn't say he is poor mentally either which is why Ronaldo became better. It's purely because Ronaldo has a freak-like mental determination. Rooney admits himself that he could have been more selfish at times, he should have scored more for United.Rooney was never actually better than Ronaldo. He was more mature, but he was never as talented.
Well, he was more consistent between 2003 to early 2006. Ronaldo would always give good crosses, a few skillfull dribbles and some goals, but he didn't have the game-to game impact Rooney had.Rooney was never actually better than Ronaldo. He was more mature, but he was never as talented.
Off the top of my head, Rooney had the bigger impact in the group stages. His performances against Croatia, France and Switzerland are generally considered amazing.Nah Ronaldo was definitely better in Euro 2004, the only thing stopping him winning young player award was his wink. But agree Rooney was better prospect in their early years (first 2-3 years), after all people said he was white Pelé, whereas Ronaldo, maybe new George Best etc
Don't reduce football to stats.It ignores alot of other aspects like the overall play and the position of the player eg cristiano early on was a winger, while messi was a playmaker playing wide and ronaldo Brazil was always a no 9.[/QUOTE]Looking at what Mbappe has achieved at his age (especially in comparison to Rashford) shows just how exceptional Mbappe is
21 years old and 3 league titles (with 2 teams) and a world cup is far more than many players will ever have achieved
For comparison as Mbappe turned 21 this season compare him to the following in the seasons they turned 21and looking at top flight games only
Mbappe
34 international games and 13 goals
117 league games and 80 goals
33 European games and 19 goals
179 club games and 117 goals
Rashford (at end of 2019 season)
31 international games and 6 goals
111 League games and 27 goals
32 European Games and 9 goals
170 Club games and 45 goals
Even up against Messi and Ronaldo
Ronaldo (at end of 2006 season)
41 international games and 15 goals
120 league games and 21 goals
24 European games and 1 goal
161 club games and 32 goals
Messi (at end of 2009 season)
44 international games and 13 goals
109 league games and 54 goals
32 European games and 17 goals
161 club games and 80 goals
Its almost but not quite original Ronaldo numbers (end of 1998 season - pre injury)
44 international games and 29 goals
129 league games and 113 goals
37 continental games and 30 goals
200 total club games and 179 goals
Rashford is a really good player and arguably our best - but he aint Mbappe
Oh it was long time ago, maybe I got it all mixed up then. Anyway, in their earlier years (maybe first 3 years), I remember Rooney was even a bigger prospect than Messi at the beginning. But turn out he didn’t improve as much as I’d expect. Whereas Ronaldo, he improves maybe 5-10 times from what I would have expect.
I still remember Ronaldo at the beginning, in his debut and first few matches, I thought we had new Giggs there, looks so electrify and refreshing. I mean, just look at my username and date I joined this forum, I was so buzzed at that time hence I use his name here. But then the next few years, I felt he was very skillful and entertaining to watch , but he was more like a showpony sometimes, and if you want someone to win the match, Rooney was definitely ahead of him. But somehow, suddenly Ronaldo transform into some type of super player, and becomes far ahead of everyone else in the league. Rooney never had a chance to catch up since.
Yeh I always felt Ronaldo is more talented, whereas Rooney is more developed in their younger ages. You may argue Ronaldo has more potential or higher ceiling, but I do also think It is not wrong to say Rooney is better player at younger age too. Obviously the trajectory of their development is very different: with Ronaldo you see him improves a lot every year, whereas for Rooney, he more or less near his peak in his early age.I’d go back and watch some old games from 03/04 season, perhaps the fa cup final in 04 or plenty others like the semi v Arsenal or the last game of the season at villa park. People forget how good Ronaldo was in his good days, and how poor Rooney was in his poor days and regular goal droughts, before you say Ronaldo was merely ok.
Rooney was more physically developed, and more mature....I suppose it’s what you consider better. You could say he was better because he was more mature and physically developed....like say how Matic is a better player currently than Greenwood for the same reasons.....but Greenwood will be a better player in the future.
He never had Ronaldos ability, whilst having great ability, it was never on the same level as Ronaldo. If you rewatch games Ronaldo played for Portugal’s under 21s he ran the entire game with Queresma, or the game Rooney tried to kick Ronaldo off the pitch when he was at Everton because he couldn’t live with him that day.
There’s a story Jaimie Redknapp tells of bumping into SAF at Tottenham in 03/04 and pointing to Ronaldo....and Sir Alex said to him “he’s going to be the best player in the world”.
Sir Alex could see it from the start, it wasn’t workrste that set Ronaldo apart, it was his natural ability allied to workrate.
On a personal level I never saw Rooney as a Pele level talent, thought I must be missing something somewhere with his talent level, I saw him being as good as he turned out to be, even as a teenager, a brilliant player, for the club but not in the truly elite level due to his technique/talent level.
I am not saying Messi isn’t best young talent around, but he wasn’t as highly rated or hyped as Rooney at their early ages. I remember the best young talent at the time was Rooney, Ronaldo and Messi. And Rooney was definitely rated higher than the other 2. I mean, just look at his stats:Most people outside of Spain did not know messi until 2005 youth world cup.But for those who knew him, he was already the generations greatest football talent.
Barcelona had put a release clause in his contract of 100 million US dollars which was the same as for Ronaldinho, the BPITW at the time. Outside of spain, from the time people discovered messi he was considered the most talented footballer of his generation ahead of rooney. Keeping in mind that messi is 2-3 years younger than rooney.
Remember that messi scored a hat trick at age 19 in el clasico something even a prime cristiano, a player who literally plays to score goals never managed. Not to forget the individual slalom vs getafe , a motm performance vs Chelsea at 18 years etc. Imo, if it wasnt for recurrent injuries, messi would have won the ballondor by age 20 (instead he finished 3rd that year despite those injuries), that is how good he already was.
Bizarre statement. He was already starting to become a better player towards the end of the 05/06 season. I remember watching him at the WC and was convinced that he would have a great season for us.I really think the wink incident pushed him into overdrive mode.
Yes Rooney was more mature physically and mentally, over a season Rooney would be the better player, but one of games, the high peaks, Ronaldo even in the early years was capable of higher peaks as he had more ability. Doesnt always pan out, there were players with more ability than Roy Keane for example, but there weren’t many better players than him.Yeh I always felt Ronaldo is more talented, whereas Rooney is more developed in their younger ages. You may argue Ronaldo has more potential or higher ceiling, but I do also think It is not wrong to say Rooney is better player at younger age too. Obviously the trajectory of their development is very different: with Ronaldo you see him improves a lot every year, whereas for Rooney, he more or less near his peak in his early age.
At the start, Rooney was slightly ahead, but by end of their career, they are already miles apart.
Is it?Bizarre statement. He was already starting to become a better player towards the end of the 05/06 season. I remember watching him at the WC and was convinced that he would have a great season for us.
I actually think he did improves alot, although he was very talented and definitely one of worlds best wonderkid at the beginning, but the way he improves his end products and then maintain it consistently over the years, and the way he developing more and more different skills sets, was just so amazing to watch. I mean, at very beginning he was all about pace and skill, with lots of tricks to entertain the fans. But then you start seeing him developing those new strength, such as thunder shots, knuckleball free kicks, finishing, off ball movement, composure, header, leadership, determination, decision making, while maintain high level of consistency, hunger for goals at the same time etc Those kind of things you just don't see him have it at the beginning.Yes Rooney was more mature physically and mentally, over a season Rooney would be the better player, but one of games, the high peaks, Ronaldo even in the early years was capable of higher peaks as he had more ability. Doesnt always pan out, there were players with more ability than Roy Keane for example, but there weren’t many better players than him.
The difference when talking about Rooney and Ronaldo is that both were exceptional players, but Ronaldo I always felt was top 2-3 players in the world level talent, massively over scrutinised in England though, for years you’d honestly think he was a poor player the way the media treated him, then he suddenly turned it around? Not really he just matured, a bit like Rashford is doing now but again he’s English so doesn’t get scrutinised like foreign players do in England, once Ronaldo put everything together he was always going to be the better player because he always had a lot more ability.
I honestly do not know whether was it an added motivation for him but from memory it blew over pretty quickly. After a few games into the season it was almost like an afterthought.Is it?
The English media created a shitstorm around that wink, to the point where CR7 was afraid of coming back to England, and some people can shrink from that, and others (especially uber competitors like CR7) can dig in and come out to face the heat. I don't think it's THE factor of his improvements by any stretch, but I do believe the reaction he got from that incident was a strong added motivator to come out and shut everybody up, it also was the same season where he really improved his output (by double digits for the first time).
It's not quite the same thing, but it kind of reminds me of when Kobe Bryant got accused of rape and was becoming a hated person and came out and put the league on notice dropping 30/40/50 point games like they were going out of business. I think adversity like that brings the best out of those mega competitors.
Surely Mbappe is ahead of Rashford, but majority of the goals he scored is in French league though, and with dominant side too. Let's just say, if he plays in England for Man Utd in past few years, I doubt think he can score as many.Looking at what Mbappe has achieved at his age (especially in comparison to Rashford) shows just how exceptional Mbappe is
21 years old and 3 league titles (with 2 teams) and a world cup is far more than many players will ever have achieved
For comparison as Mbappe turned 21 this season compare him to the following in the seasons they turned 21and looking at top flight games only
Mbappe
34 international games and 13 goals
117 league games and 80 goals
33 European games and 19 goals
179 club games and 117 goals
Rashford (at end of 2019 season)
31 international games and 6 goals
111 League games and 27 goals
32 European Games and 9 goals
170 Club games and 45 goals
Even up against Messi and Ronaldo
Ronaldo (at end of 2006 season)
41 international games and 15 goals
120 league games and 21 goals
24 European games and 1 goal
161 club games and 32 goals
Messi (at end of 2009 season)
44 international games and 13 goals
109 league games and 54 goals
32 European games and 17 goals
161 club games and 80 goals
Its almost but not quite original Ronaldo numbers (end of 1998 season - pre injury)
44 international games and 29 goals
129 league games and 113 goals
37 continental games and 30 goals
200 total club games and 179 goals
Rashford is a really good player and arguably our best - but he aint Mbappe