Other teams have had their struggles but we aren't as focused and demanding on them as we are on United
Tired....again
- Thread starter RedStarUnited
- Start date
This is such a stupid point. How does resting for 3 months stop you getting tired after playing 4 matches in 8 days
It literally does nothing to help at all. Between Southampton (Monday) Palace (Thursday) Chelsea (Sunday) and West Ham (Wednesday) thats a grand total of 6 rest days, not including travel time too.
We hardly rotated anybody in that period, just a few minutes here and there. Do you honestly think that's enough for the team to be playing at full capability?
Why one? We didn't trust both.
Also no 2 games are same, just because we dropped points against Southampton doesn't mean we shouldn't make any subs vs West Ham.
I don't get these bold parts, why would I look to blame Ole. You can ask posters lke @Andycoleno9 @Enigma_87 and few others who are "ole Out', they keep saying I defend Ole no matter what and then we have posters like you who are in "Ole can do no wrong" camp, comes up with "I'm looking for reasons to blame Ole" fecking hell, at least think before you come up with something like that.
I didn't ask Ole to win league titles, I didn't even say Ole should smash all the teams on our way to top 4, I said Ole was wrong not so use any of Fred or McTominay, by subbing out Matic. Not sure how that is me reaching for an easy answer, which is to blame Ole. We have 5 subs, we have players like Fred, McTominey and players like Matic playing like shit on the pitch. Basic expectation is the player who is exhausted and shit to be moved out and players who are fresh and energetic to come on and offer something to the team.
I mean, even by your logic we did rotate in the games against Palace, Chelsea and West Ham. That we wanted to keep momentum of a winning run is hardly a crime. In fact, if you ventured on the forum up to and including the Southampton game everyone here, with almost zero exception was saying that we should keep the same starting XI including that game.
Personally, I wanted us to rotate from the Norwich game onwards, as I was wary of certain players (Bruno being the main one) who played every game and needing a rest, but equally, I couldn't begrudge him not rotating when the players who were being picked were so consistently good, and those who were not being picked, were not doing enough off the bench to change the situation.
Also, Liverpool are not a valid comparison. They've had nothing to play for and Klopp has been picking players on the basis of them getting enough appearances to get a medal. When they were playing to win the title, it was pretty much the same starting XI week in and week out, with the Cup XI being played in those dead rubber ties. Ole, by contrast, rotated a heck of a lot more during that period.
I do not understand where you are going with this reasoning.
Firstly, the game was at Anfield where Liverpool have just matched the record of points attained at home in a single season (55 points). They have only dropped 2 points all season at home (18 wins and 1 draw).
Secondly, one of those five losses was to Chelsea.
The likelihood of any team in the Premier League taking points from Liverpool at Anfield is slim. Overall, Chelsea did pretty well in the grand scheme of things; they scored more goals than any other team at Anfield this season.
You clearly know more about football than me, our manager, coaching staff and everybody else. So I don't think I have anything to say that can convince you otherwise.
By the way I have consistently been talking about midfield pairs, not individual players, for instance, Pogba/Matic works, Fred/McT works, while Pogba/Fred clearly doesn't work. Hence, my trying to explain it to you why this wouldn't work in our current system. But according to you all we do is play a basic 4-2-3-1 where every player can be replaced with another without any change in system, so well don't let me convince you otherwise.
Pogba - Matic was the combination when Jose got sacked, it doesnt work always. This was also the combination when we played poorly in 2017-18 (second half), so much that Jose had to drop Pogba in few games and then moved Lingard to deeper position.
Also why not Pogba McTominay, that was the starting midfield this season and that was the midfield when we won 4-0 vs Chelsea, dominated both Southampton and Wolves away from home?
Just before this season there were posters who used to argue Martial - Rashford combination don't work. Unless you play them, how would you know whether it works or not?
Btw going by the bold part, I don't know what we are doing on caf instead of just posting articles from Manutd.com and just post "I agree" with every article.
Look mate I could argue against all of the points you mention here, such as how the Pogba Matic combo under Jose was different from present and so on. But there's no point because honestly, (and ironically considering the thread title) I'm tired of this debate. So let's just agree to disagree and move on.
Yep, need to consider some free transfers or shrewd signings, people with contracts expiring soon.
This point is why I think we need Sancho or an equivalent so desperately. Right now we have 2 game changers and we sit in third. With 3/4 game changers we'll have a title challenging side i reckon. I'm not saying Sancho alone can make this a title winning side, but it gets us so much closer. Maybe Rashford and Martial might evolve into the players teams fear, they certainly have been since the break. Right now if we change our front three our options are Ighalo (who i can't pass judgement on, he scored a few for us, but i don't know if he's anything special) and James who's a massive step down. If we have Sancho, the change to the front three will be one of Mason, Greenwood or Rashford - a huge leap in quality. Having 4 top players 4 three spots is going to mean extreme competition.
In midfield we have Pogba and Bruno right now for the magic, and Fred, McT and Matic for the dirty work. Ideally we need another man who can create as well as do the running, but it's not a huge gulf in quality. It's something that could be worked on though, we should get rid of Mata, Lingard and Periera and try for Grealish or someone like that. Maybe not this window, maybe the next one.
I see your point about defence, i just think our forward line and midfield are so close to being world class, that it'd be a shame to not take that opportunity.
I specifically mentioned the Fa cup run. And Fred/mcT could have been brought on after 60 mins or so for matches we were winning.
it’s called squad management. Something that is needed to go deep in cups or qualify for CL.
Thanks, i was unsure of that.
Not sure if you’ve noticed but this isn’t quite a normal season and Ole sticking with the 11 that as got us back in this fight over an insanely short period of time instead of repeatedly using players that have let him down is bang on imo
People have short memories, the players had 28 games to prove themselves this season. If we do not get top 4, it isnt because of the last 3 weeks, it is because of Burnley, Watford, Newcastle, Bournemouth and those results earlier in the season.
The players now have given us a chance, we should let them complete it.
Rotation of the squad since restart has been terrible....you could argue that as a result of the lack of rotation, we are in a position to get 4th, but I don't agree with it.
If you consider playing our talisman for 120 mins against Norwich, and pretty much non stop since the restart as a good and essential move, I have nothing to say.
Last season it was the same with Rashford. The very fact that this is not a normal season is why you should rotate in the first place. You are say we are playing so frequently and you think playing the same 11 day in day out won’t affect their fitness? There’s a reason the allowed subs was increased to 5.
None of that explains the FA Cup team.
Are we tired again like last season? Or have we just been found out again....like last season? I saw Moyes yesterday barking orders that neutralised our attack but I also so a fatigued Bruno give the ball away numerous times
You already said that and I already gave you my opinion. No need to go in circles.
Are you seriously starting a debate on who is currently the best PL team in this thread???
I was just pointing that even though they may be the best team in the league they are undoubtedly on a crap run of form and just lost to Arsenal so if Chelsea did play Pulisic or whoever else, yes they could well have got a result, as you’ve also said they managed to score 3 anyway!
Bruno registered 5 high-intensity sprints against West Ham having averaged 13 per 90 minutes in United's other Premier League games since the restart.
It’s clear to the naked eye that fatigue is a major factor in these flat performances
It’s clear to the naked eye that fatigue is a major factor in these flat performances
Explain how you know the demand from the coaches?
We were pressing far higher in those games than now....again, signs of fatigue. It's not like Ole hasn't confirmed this.
We're clearly running on fumes, but if we'd rotated in the way some are suggesting we'd like be praying for an absolute drubbing of Leicester to scrape 4th on goal difference. We don't have enough quality outside of the starting XI to be able to switch players like Bruno, Pogba, Martial, Rashford or even Greenwood out without it severely affecting our play.
damn
Manager prepares team for season. Manager picks and rotates team. It is his bloody job.
So if fitness is a problem then it is only one person to blame.
So if fitness is a problem then it is only one person to blame.
I agree, that pesky bat in China
I ain't talking about coaches but Utd fans in relation to our team. We are more focused on our teams and its deficiencies more than other, everyone has been struggling for fitness since the return of football.
you say this now but had we drawn or lost due to rotations you lot would ask why he didn't just stick to his proven 11.
No because we all understand the amount of games being played. It’s not major changes every game, just 2-3 players when needed. Even taking main players off earlier in matches we were comfortably winning would have helped.
Agree on this one. People would have criticised Ole for not playing his best XI who actually been performing very well. Remember what he did against Spurs, our fans made a thread and criticised Ole for not playing Matic & Pogba.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/our-team-selection-against-spurs.456040/
Lampard made 3 changes in the FA Cup while Ole made 4 changes in the FA Cup, Ole was heavily criticised by pundits for being naive not using his strong XI. And when he plays his strong XI, United fans cirticised him for not rotating. There is no win to win situation here.
End of the day, the problem is the schedule. This is end of the season where every single of our remaining games are important. Ole is playing his strong XI because they are performing very well and you want to play your strong on form XI in these important games, look at what Lampard did against Liverpool yesterday! He made zero change because he wanted to play the same players who are performing well from his previous game against us.
He didn't play Pogba & Matic vs Spurs, he was criticised.
He rest his front three, Pogba, Matic & Bissaka vs Norwich, he was criticised.
He rotated 4 players against Chelsea, he was criticised.
He played his strong XI, he was criticised.
There is no win to win situation here. This is basically near end of the season and every single of our remaining games are important ones, manager wants to play his strong team who is on form.
Where are you getting these stats?
I just find it hard to believe that any football fan would rather throw away a chance of a trophy than actually win it!
Thank the lord you'll never be manager of United or we would never win anything again
It feels to me that article is picking on Brunos stats in order to back up their point, without actually showing collective sprints.
Anyone heard the story about a player deliberately sprinting to take corners so his sprinting stats were higher than most!!?
Bruno ran a vast amount that game again, so no doubt he's probably feeling the effects more than anyone, but one player does not make it a collective.
One thing to note is the two games we have drawn recently in the league, Southampton and West Ham, where performances apparently suggest we are tired, we actually got one point from the corresponding fixtures earlier on in the season.
So a 'tired United' picked up two draws rather than just the one. And yes there's mitigating factors into this analysis but just thought I'd highlight it none the less.
Just as a sidenote, Spurs are actually top of the form table for last five game, and correct me if I'm wrong, they have made one of the fewest rotational changes in their team since the restart?
I'm not convinved by the Bruno sprint stats though. There were two games after the restart in which the number of his high intensity sprints were below average: Tottenham away and West Ham home. What's the common denominator here? They were games where we had to "chase" a result for an extended period of time and couldn't rely on counter-attacks. As the article says, he still covered the most ground because against compact, well-organised defences lots of movement is key but you don't really have the space to sprint anywhere.
The FA haven't helped us nor has being in the cup. Our lads are very fit but have played the last few games with several days less recovery than their opposition. I feel certain that if they had the same rest as the opposition all of those games would have been very different.
Master Poch of Tino says trophies are over rated. He’s got the right ideaI just find it hard to believe that any football fan would rather throw away a chance of a trophy than actually win it!
Thank the lord you'll never be manager of United or we would never win anything again
Same with Lord Arsene of Wenger I hear.