kouroux
45k posts to finally achieve this tagline
Other teams have had their struggles but we aren't as focused and demanding on them as we are on UnitedHow do other teams manage then?
Other teams have had their struggles but we aren't as focused and demanding on them as we are on UnitedHow do other teams manage then?
This is such a stupid point. How does resting for 3 months stop you getting tired after playing 4 matches in 8 daysTrue, the rest they got in lockdown the way they looked after themselves..they should be ok for 2 matches in a week.
Why one? We didn't trust both.It is logical to get rid of one of Fred and McTominay, yes. They fundamentally do the same thing and, now that we've shifted style, its unlikely both will be needed that often. We can then buy a world class defensive midfield to replace Matic and use Matic as the rotation option he should be until he moves on.
McTominay at his best is better in the air than Matic, I agree. However, he has not showed any such qualities since the season restarted at Spurs and played his way out of the first XI.
Its possible. However, this is not what happened against Southampton when Fred and McTominay came on. @King7Eric has repeatedly illustrated how Fred's attacking contributions have been lacking since the restart.
We can agree to disagree on what they did pre-lockdown. To some extent its irrelevant as I don't think you can judge a player's form today on what they were doing in March.
On the contrary, I don't think 'my manager can't do wrong.' I just think you are reaching for the easy answer, which is to blame Ole, rather than accept how complex/difficult the situation he faces is. I can understand why. If we just blame Ole then it seems like there's a simple answer that can set things right. Unfortunately that is not the case. Fixing our problems will take a lot more time, and investment, than just giving McTominay or Fred games and giving Matic fewer.
I mean, even by your logic we did rotate in the games against Palace, Chelsea and West Ham. That we wanted to keep momentum of a winning run is hardly a crime. In fact, if you ventured on the forum up to and including the Southampton game everyone here, with almost zero exception was saying that we should keep the same starting XI including that game.You don't get rotation.
rotation is not playing a completely different team (resting 8 first team players) it's rotating a few positions at a time. The Norwich line up had only 3 regular first team players. That doesn't mean you cannot trust certain players. Many of our players have played rubbish for a few games and we supposedly trust them. One result where only 3 first team players started. To rotate you play majority of your first team and rotate maybe 3 or 4. Then you still keep the strength of your side and can continue to win games. Liverpool have done similar and have rotated their centre midfielders post lockdown.
I do not understand where you are going with this reasoning.The ones who in their last 12 games have lost 5 and drawn 2? Ah ok
You clearly know more about football than me, our manager, coaching staff and everybody else. So I don't think I have anything to say that can convince you otherwise.That's basic football, subbing out tired players who can't even jog and playing a basic midfield role.
So we shouldn't bring on McTominay or Fred in any game as they can't offer these "Qualities" that Matic offers.
If you said same thing about Pogba, I would have said yes, as Pogba is our best passer of the ball and in one moment he can unlock defense from deep but it's Matic, he doesn't offer so much that Fred or McTominay can't.
Pogba - Matic was the combination when Jose got sacked, it doesnt work always. This was also the combination when we played poorly in 2017-18 (second half), so much that Jose had to drop Pogba in few games and then moved Lingard to deeper position.You clearly know more about football than me, our manager, coaching staff and everybody else. So I don't think I have anything to say that can convince you otherwise.
By the way I have consistently been talking about midfield pairs, not individual players, for instance, Pogba/Matic works, Fred/McT works, while Pogba/Fred clearly doesn't work. Hence, my trying to explain it to you why this wouldn't work in our current system. But according to you all we do is play a basic 4-2-3-1 where every player can be replaced with another without any change in system, so well don't let me convince you otherwise.
Look mate I could argue against all of the points you mention here, such as how the Pogba Matic combo under Jose was different from present and so on. But there's no point because honestly, (and ironically considering the thread title) I'm tired of this debate. So let's just agree to disagree and move on.Pogba - Matic was the combination when Jose got sacked, it doesnt work always. This was also the combination when we played poorly in 2017-18 (second half), so much that Jose had to drop Pogba in few games and then moved Lingard to deeper position.
Also why not Pogba McTominay, that was the starting midfield this season and that was the midfield when we won 4-0 vs Chelsea, dominated both Southampton and Wolves away from home?
Just before this season there were posters who used to argue Martial - Rashford combination don't work. Unless you play them, how would you know whether it works or not?
Btw going by the bold part, I don't know what we are doing on caf instead of just posting articles from Manutd.com and just post "I agree" with every article.
Yep, need to consider some free transfers or shrewd signings, people with contracts expiring soon.Honestly, if it meant getting a world class centre back I'd be happy to pass on Sancho. If it was a straight choice between Koulibaly or Sancho, well that's like asking whether you prefer Lindelof or Greenwood in your first XI. I know who I'm picking.
However, at the very least we need to make sure that our first XI is not full of 8/9 out of 10s and the bench full of 5 out of 10s. Bruno's alternatives cannot be Mata, Lingard and Andreas. Mata's lost his legs, Lingard's lost his head and Andreas never had much of either. When you take Bruno out of our team...well then we become the same team that lost to Burnley etc. We need some 7 out of 10 players who can come in and perform even if the likes of Pogba and Fernandes need a rest.
This point is why I think we need Sancho or an equivalent so desperately. Right now we have 2 game changers and we sit in third. With 3/4 game changers we'll have a title challenging side i reckon. I'm not saying Sancho alone can make this a title winning side, but it gets us so much closer. Maybe Rashford and Martial might evolve into the players teams fear, they certainly have been since the break. Right now if we change our front three our options are Ighalo (who i can't pass judgement on, he scored a few for us, but i don't know if he's anything special) and James who's a massive step down. If we have Sancho, the change to the front three will be one of Mason, Greenwood or Rashford - a huge leap in quality. Having 4 top players 4 three spots is going to mean extreme competition.The point is it at least puts a bit of fear in your opponent. Other teams fear Bruno. They don't fear the players we have behind him. When we take him off our opposition advance 10-20m. They no longer feel like they need to keep men back, just in case he does something spectacular. We saw it against Southampton, we saw it when we were getting beat by teams like Palace and Newcastle earlier in the season. A lot of teams in the Premier League, not just the top teams but the middle and bottom ranking teams, feel like they can play with freedom against us when our best players are out. Need I remind you we got horribly battered by West Ham earlier in the season? The players many people are talking about rotating in are the players that had us closer to the bottom of the table than the top of it in the winter of this season. Bruno is capable of that one moment of magic that makes opposition full backs that tiny bit more hesitant to go forward. You take him off and you're inviting pressure and we are not that good at resisting pressure.
I specifically mentioned the Fa cup run. And Fred/mcT could have been brought on after 60 mins or so for matches we were winning.Fred and mctominay are good grafters but no where near the creativity of Pogba and Bruno. And that’s what people have been crying for for months and years, now we have it and it’s got us into top four spot people are crying that we havnt used the players that couldn’t break down the weaker teams in the first place
Thanks, i was unsure of that.I specifically mentioned the Fa cup run. And Fred/mcT could have been brought on after 60 mins or so for matches we were winning.
it’s called squad management. Something that is needed to go deep in cups or qualify for CL.
People have short memories, the players had 28 games to prove themselves this season. If we do not get top 4, it isnt because of the last 3 weeks, it is because of Burnley, Watford, Newcastle, Bournemouth and those results earlier in the season.Thanks, i was unsure of that.
Not sure if you’ve noticed but this isn’t quite a normal season and Ole sticking with the 11 that as got us back in this fight over an insanely short period of time instead of repeatedly using players that have let him down is bang on imo
If you consider playing our talisman for 120 mins against Norwich, and pretty much non stop since the restart as a good and essential move, I have nothing to say.Thanks, i was unsure of that.
Not sure if you’ve noticed but this isn’t quite a normal season and Ole sticking with the 11 that as got us back in this fight over an insanely short period of time instead of repeatedly using players that have let him down is bang on imo
None of that explains the FA Cup team.Rotation of the squad since restart has been terrible....you could argue that as a result of the lack of rotation, we are in a position to get 4th, but I don't agree with it.
You already said that and I already gave you my opinion. No need to go in circles.Why throw away the chance for a trophy? It's staggering that you even contemplate that! Such bizarre thinking.
You won't win any games by letting in 5, I can guarantee that Lampard won't rest his best 11 on Sunday! Which further emphasizes my point.
We have a strong squad, the first 11 are a match for every team, to claim they are tired is potentially correct only the players can answer that, my guess is they aren't due to conditioning and carefully planned training sessions, but the flip side is if the are, they are no more or less tired than Leicester, or Southampton, or Chelsea etc etc.
To think otherwise is just making excuses. Which judging by the fact that some people would have us throw away a trophy isn't surprising.
Are you seriously starting a debate on who is currently the best PL team in this thread???The ones who in their last 12 games have lost 5 and drawn 2? Ah ok
I was just pointing that even though they may be the best team in the league they are undoubtedly on a crap run of form and just lost to Arsenal so if Chelsea did play Pulisic or whoever else, yes they could well have got a result, as you’ve also said they managed to score 3 anyway!Are you seriously starting a debate on who is currently the best PL team in this thread???
Explain how you know the demand from the coaches?Other teams have had their struggles but we aren't as focused and demanding on them as we are on United
We were pressing far higher in those games than now....again, signs of fatigue. It's not like Ole hasn't confirmed this.Bruno registered 5 high-intensity sprints against West Ham having averaged 13 per 90 minutes in United's other Premier League games since the restart.
It’s clear to the naked eye that fatigue is a major factor in these flat performances
damnBruno registered 5 high-intensity sprints against West Ham having averaged 13 per 90 minutes in United's other Premier League games since the restart.
It’s clear to the naked eye that fatigue is a major factor in these flat performances
I agree, that pesky bat in ChinaManager prepares team for season. Manager picks and rotates team. It is his bloody job.
So if fitness is a problem then it is only one person to blame.
I ain't talking about coaches but Utd fans in relation to our team. We are more focused on our teams and its deficiencies more than other, everyone has been struggling for fitness since the return of football.Explain how you know the demand from the coaches?
you say this now but had we drawn or lost due to rotations you lot would ask why he didn't just stick to his proven 11.I think he could have rotated more. Fred was having a good season pre lockdown but hasn’t featured much. McTominay could have played more. Like Ighalo and Mata. Ole doesn’t seem to like Dalot. We have players who could have stepped in for some minutes.
No because we all understand the amount of games being played. It’s not major changes every game, just 2-3 players when needed. Even taking main players off earlier in matches we were comfortably winning would have helped.you say this now but had we drawn or lost due to rotations you lot would ask why he didn't just stick to his proven 11.
Agree on this one. People would have criticised Ole for not playing his best XI who actually been performing very well. Remember what he did against Spurs, our fans made a thread and criticised Ole for not playing Matic & Pogba.you say this now but had we drawn or lost due to rotations you lot would ask why he didn't just stick to his proven 11.
He didn't play Pogba & Matic vs Spurs, he was criticised.No because we all understand the amount of games being played. It’s not major changes every game, just 2-3 players when needed. Even taking main players off earlier in matches we were comfortably winning would have helped.
Where are you getting these stats?Bruno registered 5 high-intensity sprints against West Ham having averaged 13 per 90 minutes in United's other Premier League games since the restart.
It’s clear to the naked eye that fatigue is a major factor in these flat performances
https://www.skysports.com/football/...teds-dip-continues-with-draw-against-west-hamWhere are you getting these stats?
I just find it hard to believe that any football fan would rather throw away a chance of a trophy than actually win it!You already said that and I already gave you my opinion. No need to go in circles.
It feels to me that article is picking on Brunos stats in order to back up their point, without actually showing collective sprints.Bruno registered 5 high-intensity sprints against West Ham having averaged 13 per 90 minutes in United's other Premier League games since the restart.
It’s clear to the naked eye that fatigue is a major factor in these flat performances
Yikes.Bruno registered 5 high-intensity sprints against West Ham having averaged 13 per 90 minutes in United's other Premier League games since the restart.
It’s clear to the naked eye that fatigue is a major factor in these flat performances
The chart showing the number of total starting eleven changes is interesting as well.
I'm not convinved by the Bruno sprint stats though. There were two games after the restart in which the number of his high intensity sprints were below average: Tottenham away and West Ham home. What's the common denominator here? They were games where we had to "chase" a result for an extended period of time and couldn't rely on counter-attacks. As the article says, he still covered the most ground because against compact, well-organised defences lots of movement is key but you don't really have the space to sprint anywhere.
The FA haven't helped us nor has being in the cup. Our lads are very fit but have played the last few games with several days less recovery than their opposition. I feel certain that if they had the same rest as the opposition all of those games would have been very different.Same thing happened last season. We had a flurry of excellent football then tiredness apparently happened and ended the season struggling. We lost 3 and drew 2 of our last 5 games last year, Tottenham got 4th by 5 points. Our last 2 games were against huddersfield and Cardiff, 2 of the 3 relegated teams. We missed out on top 4 because we couldn't beat 2 relegated teams.
Ole just spoke on this recently and said he thinks he fixed the fitness issues. Is it really fitness ?
Master Poch of Tino says trophies are over rated. He’s got the right ideaI just find it hard to believe that any football fan would rather throw away a chance of a trophy than actually win it!
Thank the lord you'll never be manager of United or we would never win anything again
Same with Lord Arsene of Wenger I hear.Master Poch of Tino says trophies are over rated. He’s got the right idea