Can he turn it around again like he did in June? I'm not so sure, they don't look like they are playing for him. The mecca at the moment is Poch but is he the best we can do?
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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To quote Dr Seuss “When you're in a Slump, you're not in for much fun. Un-slumping yourself is not easily done.”
Tbf, this vote was prior to the window and the last season completing.
I am sure if everyone voted now, the % will be different.
Old and unchanged votes, pride from previous stances and so forth, the real number would definitely be in his disfavour. Most people are gradually seeing his lack of competence relative to the mammoths of the game, although he is admirably keeping his mask still. I do not hate Ole and never will, but if he loves United so much perhaps he should have seen his own shortcomings before signing the contract. Saying that, nobody says no to a deal with Manchester United and the parachute payment once the sacking is inevitable - and most people regard themselves as worthy when things are going well. He might have learned from Sir Alex 20 years ago, but OGS is no Sir Alex and the game has changed a whole lot. To control these superstars, you need charisma and natural respect. None of these players will ever fear to disappoint OGS and he doesn’t have an ounce of charisma unfortunately.
It also beggars belief that roughly 8% of the people were happy to have Ole in charge at the end of the last season (literally 2 months back), and after 3 premier league matches, have decided he is not good enough and needs to be sacked. If that is not knee jerk then I don't know what is.
I have seen alot of people say this. I know you did counter this by saying nobody will say no however not everyone is thinking like that.
Ole came in as a caretaker and went on a very good run, then he went and beat PSG away.
As a manager, coach or whatever you want to call it, like a player, you back yourself. No player / manager goes into football without self confidence.
If you are a manager who thinks they are good at xyz, get a chance at your dream job and start with 8 wins, beat PSG, do you actually think you will say no to a 2 year contract?
Whatever could you mean? (I know what you mean.)
It's still somewhat amusing that those stories that you mention are not stickied.
Not having a go.
Did you know that FSG's head made his fortune using data analytics (AKA he's extremely intelligent unlike the Glazer spawn)? Turned his long-long-looooooooooooooong-ridiculed (way way way waaaaaaaay longer than we've been in trouble under the Glazers/Woody) American baseball franchise into serial contenders and winners? And IIRC (CBA to go back and find the article) Klopp was hired in a great part part based on his results coaching Mainz? NOT BVB (FSG's analyitics showed Klopp to be underperforming at Mainz and then they kept track of him to see if the trend held)
FSG are one of the best owners any sporting franchise could hope for in this age.
The first line of the above quoted post is pretty wrong. And I'm only pointing that out because it serves the fanbase to highlight how bad the Glazers/Woodward are; not that your post is 'wrong'.
I always thought at the time, even before PSG, that if they wanted to give it to Ole permanently, if they were convinced by his longterm strategy after working with him for months, instead of just the quick phonecall meetings after Mou sacking. That they had to give it to him fast while public opinion was high instead of waiting till the end of the season, as I didn't think the lucky string could continue much longer. Mind you I never expected it to go as badly in that end of season as it did.
I knew it would take time, but I also didn't see anyone that could come in and create amazing results out of thin air in just a season or two. We had to start thinking differently and plan longterm. Which I still have faith in Ole to continue.
Most of you that believe it's impossible for Ole to be qualified for this job because of his past, I believe are selling yourselves short for what you could do yourselves. There's usually not that much difference between people in high-profile jobs and your more average positions. A lot of it is having the right mindset and a bit of luck to be in the right place at the right time.
That Chelsea game was a typical ‘good’ result under Ole. We won 4-0 yet we’re out played for the vast majority of the game. Chelsea should have and could have put us to the sword that game but we scored 4. Great to watch at the time but when you reflect on the manor of the game you can see why we struggle when we don’t get lucky or a penalty.
Ole ball is not good football and that fact we have such a good first team, we have managed to hide how poor our manager is.
No, it's pretty much based on the present.
How do you think wed have started the season under Poch after having only half the squad play one pre season friendly ???
Let's not forget City have only 1 more pt than we do and also got embarrassed on their home ground. There's a reason for it. The PL/FA have royally shafted the clubs who were still in Europe.
Most people do not try to be better. One can argue that it's because they do not believe in themselves, but for me the biggest reason is because they are too lazy to do it. And then when they accept they cannot be better they assume the same for other people too. It's difficult to value ambition and drive when you do not possess those qualities. Worst thing is that most people honestly believe they are ambitious and driven but "don't have a knack for X or Y". Best example I can give is programming. The majority of people would say they could never learn to code. If you ask if they've ever tried, most would say "No" and from the ones who say "Yes", they wouldn't have spend any real time or effort in it. They assume that those are skills you are born with and you feel naturally at ease. That's BS but go on and try to convince someone...It's just laziness and then finding excuses for one's life and circumstances.
Give Ole a couple of months to show that the past games this season were only due to fitness problems, which I really doubt. If results improve significantly, then stick with him until winter break and then decide. If things do not change much, start talking to alternatives in December. Solskjaer has brought in a lot of players and needs to show that he can get 100% out of every player's potential. He has no excuses from now on. I doubt the Board will take the risk of missing out on CL next season. Expect them to be proactive this time around.
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Well then I wasn't speaking to you with that point in mind.
There's plenty others using that argument.
Looking at just the present I think it's knee-jerky to bring out the gallows after 3 games considering how we finished the last season not long ago.
I somewhat agree. I do think he was fecked by the board this window. With all the fitness issues and negativity around the club, we needed something to lift the spirits and we didn't get him what he wanted. That being said, he should be getting far more out of the players that are here than we've seen this season. If results don't improve to better reflect the actual ability of this squad soon, we need to start planning for the next manager
We didn't finish very well, we had initial 3 or 4 good performances after the break and that was it.Well then I wasn't speaking to you with that point in mind.
There's plenty others using that argument.
Looking at just the present I think it's knee-jerky to bring out the gallows after 3 games considering how we finished the last season not long ago.
I remember the start of the 2nd half against Bournemouth, you could go look at it again and the team looked as shambolic in the back as it's now. What's happening now is basically a continuation of last season, results and position could paper over the cracks only for the short term.
It's a bit offtopic discussion for this thread, but I agree. And it does have a bit to say about how people look at what qualifications you do need, i.e. 5 years experience for entry-level jobs.
I did programming in Uni, I did OK at it, but even though I was big into maths and a big fan of logic puzzles, I just didn't find it interesting enough. (Maybe I was lazy
)But yeah, ambition and drive can get you far.
Of course, when you are in the hotseat you have to deliver over time, and for me Ole is still progressing the club well from where we were. I am still very positive for the future.
No team is good in every match, but being able to grind out results despite of it is usually what makes a good team.
Even Liverpool last season won a large amount of its games after 80 mins, having struggled to perform to get enough goals earlier.
Following the league doesn't allow me to think I know it better than someone who has all but admitted he knows literally nothing about it? Do you know how ridiculous you sound?
So am I but feel that the job will slip away from him if he isn't willing to address some of the tactical challenges our opponents are imposing. Pogba and AWB are clearly being targetted and we are yet to figure out a way to deal with that. His insistance on Pogba so far this season hasn't paid off yet and I do hope the fitness levels building up is worth it. Fred and McT must be a bit frustrated, waiting on the bench when they deliver a better product right now.It's a bit offtopic discussion for this thread, but I agree. And it does have a bit to say about how people look at what qualifications you do need, i.e. 5 years experience for entry-level jobs.
I did programming in Uni, I did OK at it, but even though I was big into maths and a big fan of logic puzzles, I just didn't find it interesting enough. (Maybe I was lazy
But yeah, ambition and drive can get you far.
Of course, when you are in the hotseat you have to deliver over time, and for me Ole is still progressing the club well from where we were. I am still very positive for the future.
I don't know if a change in formation will solve our issues but I do sense that Ole has to make some difficult calls in the next few games (Newcastle, PSG, Chelsea, RB Leipzig and Arsenal are the next 5).
I haven’t admitted anything it’s all an assumption, you can have an opinion by following a League doesn’t mean it’s right or it’s the only opinion. When you saying you know more because your Norwegian I had a good laugh and didn’t see any point trying to engage in rational way beyond that point.
Following the league doesn't automatically make his opinion more right no, but it makes it much more likely to be right than someone who Isn't following the league.
Yeah it's an assumption that you aren't following the Norwegian league, but a right one to assume since he asked you several times and you always avoided the question.
Him saying he's Norwegian is just to point out how much more likely it is that he follows the league, not to mention have news of it communicated through his own local media.
Andy Mitten mentioned how our players came back in bad shape. I do feel in longer run, Ole might not be enough hence I would not mind if we can upgrade his position but these 3 results are cumulative result of multiple issues and not just Ole fault. I think most manager would have found it difficult in this scenario
It seems like we've already forgotten some of the football we played last year. After the break we were brilliant, picked up more points than any other team and we had some great games against other big 6 sides which were in no small part down to Oles tactics.
I agree that not all of his decisions make sense and he has to do more with what we have, but I think to say we're going to be in a relegation battle after 3 matches is ridiculous.
I just believe that its irrelevant who the manager is if the club doesn't change from the top.
I’m a big believer in backing the manager and understanding/allowing the process. It can take 4 years before a manager has a team he wants and players playing the way he wants them to, we’ve seen that throughout the PL. The most organised teams have managers that have been there more than 3 years.
However, when you get hammered 6-1 and could have been hammered every game so far this season, you have to start asking serious questions.
It looks to me as though he’s either lost the dressing room or there’s a lot of fighting/blame culture behind the scenes between the players. I still think we need to get rid of a few that aren’t good enough or replace them with better players, but we also need a manager that’s going to support and improve players in a system.
For example, pound for pound, the Leeds players aren’t better than United players but they bought into a system and believe in it. They know exactly what to do when they either have the ball or don’t have the ball. We look unorganised and clueless because we’re relying on big names to dictate the play, when they’re clearly not capable or have no experience of doing so.
Writings on the wall at this stage.
However, when you get hammered 6-1 and could have been hammered every game so far this season, you have to start asking serious questions.
It looks to me as though he’s either lost the dressing room or there’s a lot of fighting/blame culture behind the scenes between the players. I still think we need to get rid of a few that aren’t good enough or replace them with better players, but we also need a manager that’s going to support and improve players in a system.
For example, pound for pound, the Leeds players aren’t better than United players but they bought into a system and believe in it. They know exactly what to do when they either have the ball or don’t have the ball. We look unorganised and clueless because we’re relying on big names to dictate the play, when they’re clearly not capable or have no experience of doing so.
Writings on the wall at this stage.
I didn't say you had admitted it, I said you've all but admitted it. It's an assumption, yes, and I've never said otherwise. I think it's a fair assumption based on the fact that you keep dodging questions about how you've formed your opinion on Ole's second stint at Molde in favour of attacking me for thinking I could possibly be more familiar with the league than you.
I know more because I follow the league. The relevance of me being Norwegian is that I live here and know the language, so I get the full coverage of the league. It gets virtually no coverage in any other language, so someone not able to understand the language won't experience the same level of coverage. Only Norway and Sweden get licensed broadcasts of it, and it's a bit harder to find decent streams of it than, say, the Premier League due to lack of demand. It's a local league with no international appeal, so yeah, I thought mentioning being Norwegian would clue you in to the fact that I've had far greater exposure to it, so might be in a better position to comment on it.
You would think a £100k pay packet and the chance to shine as an elite athlete would be a good enough incentive for anyone.
I think it's a fair question to ask why you have that opinion, and/or elaborate on the opinion itself. And if you haven't watched or followed norwegian football, it's even more interesting. Having a balanced discussion about his time in Molde is fine, but if your opinion on his time there is based on a hunch or what a few people has said on here, it certainly changes the context of the discussion. That's not being narrow minded, or thinking that "I'm right, you're wrong", it's just setting a certain standard.
"Breaking Bad is such a bad TV-show. I haven't seen it, but I still have this opinion, and if you disagree you're narrow minded"
"Sachin Tendulkar is overrated. I know nothing about cricket, but if you ask me to elaborate on my opinion you're forcing me to blindly bow down"
"Boca Juniors play boring, defensive football and the manager have lost the plot entirely. I haven't seen a single game they've played, but stop asking me why I think the way I do. I don't have to prove anything!!!"
"Ole is the best coach the norwegian league has ever seen. I won't tell you why, I won't tell you if I've ever seen his teams play, and if you ask me why, you're a jerk".
I believe Ole ran out of ideas he doesn’t, you can find season ticket holders anywhere that talk nonsense, following something doesn’t mean you know everything.
When Ole left Molde they won the league, that’s what happened, would they have won it if he’d stayed, maybe/maybe not. Would they be doing better now with Ole in charge, again who knows.
We’ll never know what would have happened just as we’ll never know if he ran out of ideas or not.
Sorry I might have not followed the full conversation. But what’s your answer to Ole at Norway?
Sometimes I wonder if Ole would do better with a really good, proven coaching staff.
Carrick and McKenna have done absolutely zero to warrant their lofty positions on the coaching staff and pitch side. Pitch side, what is the point of them being there - they look like they do nothing.
Ditto Phelan. He achieved his status as right hand man to an absolute genius. Since then, he’s been a walking disaster yet here he is as Ole’s #2.
At what level is having such a weak coaching set up acceptable at an elite club? Woodward allowing this to happen is a further sign of his weakness.
Ideally, Ole and all his staff need to go but a restructuring of the coaching set up could be a great step forward.
Carrick and McKenna have done absolutely zero to warrant their lofty positions on the coaching staff and pitch side. Pitch side, what is the point of them being there - they look like they do nothing.
Ditto Phelan. He achieved his status as right hand man to an absolute genius. Since then, he’s been a walking disaster yet here he is as Ole’s #2.
At what level is having such a weak coaching set up acceptable at an elite club? Woodward allowing this to happen is a further sign of his weakness.
Ideally, Ole and all his staff need to go but a restructuring of the coaching set up could be a great step forward.
Ole did a great job at Molde, and changed the club forever, breaking records and attracting the best talent for years. And the club is still reaping the rewards. His successors did great with what they inherited for a while, before slowly fading, as proven again this year.
A disclaimer is that I hate Molde with a passion. They're literally the team I hate the most in the Norwegian league, alongside Brann and (now relegated) Lillestrøm. I want to say that they've done bad, and that Ole didn't perform or lost the plot or whatever, but after all the pain and suffering he's cost me as a fan of another team, it would require some pretty drastic mental gymnastics to come to that conclusion.
He did some morally questionable/despicable things while in charge, and you can certainly argue that he lost a lot of respect from a huge part of norwegian football fans (and the general population), but that has nothing to do with his performance as a manager. You can point to his shady dealings with agent/friend Jim Solbakken, but again, a different thing.
There are so many things you can say about Ole as a manager, and even as a person. His time in Wales, his results with us, his tactical ability, his persona, his moral. There are thousands of arguments to back up any negative opinion about him. His results and sporting legacy as a manager of Molde FK is not one of them. He didn't run out of ideas at all, he got a job in Manchester instead.
Of course, this is all my own opinion, and everyone is free to have a different opinion. That's fair, expected and respected. But if that opinion is based on nothing at all, I think the opinion is less valid.
Edit: And no, he's obviously not the best manager the Norwegian league has ever seen. That would be Nils Arne Eggen, by quite some distance. He's the best norwegian manager ever, and probably one of the european greats (top 50, maybe?).
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But here we dont agree and since there is no concrete evidence for either outcome its all just guesswork. I do think fan pressure can make a difference though. Remember before Christmas last year? I am in no shape or form suggesting violence and attacking his house was a scumme thing to do, but the pressure on Woodwards really amped up then and i think it might have helped us sign Bruno
Now its different though since there are no fans in the stadium, but when they eventually get back i doubt they would be happy with Woody if this transpires as it looks to now. Maybe its just wishful thinking on my part, but if Ole becomes the martyr that leads to real change in the club i'd happily take that deal
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No that’s fair enough and I have to believe you if you’ve paid a lot more attention to the league than others.
I think those that question you probably just have the wrong idea. You’re not promoting what he’s done for United just pointing out your facts on what you seen him do for Molde.
If you actually read what i wrote it was the flipfloppers i refered to as drama queens and there is quite a few of them.
To be fair, nobody's questioned my opinion. It's me, @Halftrack and @Matriac questioning @Roboc7.
And he's perfectly entitled to his opinion, I just wonder how/why he has that opinion. But of course that's me being narrow minded, overly sensitive, and forcing him to "blindly bow down".
Of course he would. A lot of the stuff happening on the pitch is mostly due to bad coaching or tactics. These are International players playing for big teams. What you practice day in and day out is what you get on match day. Set pieces have to be practiced. Two v two or one v one or even two v one has to be practiced. Corners have to be practiced till you get it absolutely right. Movements on and off the ball has to be practiced. How to create space and how to find space and most importantly how to pass into space. These are all practiced. This is not a testimonial for players.
None of them seem to realise this. The standard of playing and coaching has jumped a lot in the PL. This is not 1999 when a two man midfield of Scholes and Keane can be enough. That said we have not even got half of their standard in midfield.
Let me say that if had Big Sam as manager he would get us playing better football and better coaching and tactics. I have seen his teams play with flair players and of course with less flair players too and that seems to be what most people have seen. It is the lack of good coaching and tactics that is creating all the problems with this team. So having more competent coaches would definitely help as by most accounts his man management seems to be good.
I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have got pummeled and annihilated by Palace, Brighton and Spurs. We are genuinely lucky not to have conceded 6-7 each game.
Can't we have a third option? On the fence or something?
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