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Can he turn it around again like he did in June? I'm not so sure, they don't look like they are playing for him. The mecca at the moment is Poch but is he the best we can do?
Tbf, this vote was prior to the window and the last season completing.It beggars belief how 2/3 of the Cafe are happy to keep Ole. We really deserve everything we get.
Old and unchanged votes, pride from previous stances and so forth, the real number would definitely be in his disfavour. Most people are gradually seeing his lack of competence relative to the mammoths of the game, although he is admirably keeping his mask still. I do not hate Ole and never will, but if he loves United so much perhaps he should have seen his own shortcomings before signing the contract. Saying that, nobody says no to a deal with Manchester United and the parachute payment once the sacking is inevitable - and most people regard themselves as worthy when things are going well. He might have learned from Sir Alex 20 years ago, but OGS is no Sir Alex and the game has changed a whole lot. To control these superstars, you need charisma and natural respect. None of these players will ever fear to disappoint OGS and he doesn’t have an ounce of charisma unfortunately.It beggars belief how 2/3 of the Cafe are happy to keep Ole. We really deserve everything we get.
It also beggars belief that roughly 8% of the people were happy to have Ole in charge at the end of the last season (literally 2 months back), and after 3 premier league matches, have decided he is not good enough and needs to be sacked. If that is not knee jerk then I don't know what is.It beggars belief how 2/3 of the Cafe are happy to keep Ole. We really deserve everything we get.
I have seen alot of people say this. I know you did counter this by saying nobody will say no however not everyone is thinking like that.I do not hate Ole and never will, but if he loves United so much perhaps he should have seen his own shortcomings before signing the contract.
Whatever could you mean? (I know what you mean.)People expecting Ole to be treated with respect by the club, what club, there is no club, check stories of Rio and Evra etc.
Not having a go.Assuming you mean FSG: they were bad owners who only cared about their baseball team until they hired Klopp, at which point they suddenly became good owners.
But our only problem is who’s occupying the boardroom. We have a world-class manager and no other manager could do any better with this squad on the training pitch or in-game because they’re distracted from teaching patterns of play by what’s going on at board level. You simply can’t teach £700m worth of talent anything if you have the wrong boardroom setup.
I always thought at the time, even before PSG, that if they wanted to give it to Ole permanently, if they were convinced by his longterm strategy after working with him for months, instead of just the quick phonecall meetings after Mou sacking. That they had to give it to him fast while public opinion was high instead of waiting till the end of the season, as I didn't think the lucky string could continue much longer. Mind you I never expected it to go as badly in that end of season as it did.That was so crazy. The timing couldn’t have been worse. We had a run of bad results and then got lucky with the PSG game with the help of VAR.
Then Woody in his wisdom decides to hand him a contract when it was clearly acceptable to wait until the end of the season and see how the rest of the season pans out.
That Chelsea game was a typical ‘good’ result under Ole. We won 4-0 yet we’re out played for the vast majority of the game. Chelsea should have and could have put us to the sword that game but we scored 4. Great to watch at the time but when you reflect on the manor of the game you can see why we struggle when we don’t get lucky or a penalty.No 19/20. We beat Chelsea which was amazing but also very lucky if you watch it again. Then we didn’t pick up another 3 points until Leicester. Literally go look at our first 6 games. It will match exactly what we will do now.
No, it's pretty much based on the present.I always thought at the time, even before PSG, that if they wanted to give it to Ole permanently, if they were convinced by his longterm strategy after working with him for months, instead of just the quick phonecall meetings after Mou sacking. That they had to give it to him fast while public opinion was high instead of waiting till the end of the season, as I didn't think the lucky string could continue much longer. Mind you I never expected it to go as badly in that end of season as it did.
I knew it would take time, but I also didn't see anyone that could come in and create amazing results out of thin air in just a season or two. We had to start thinking differently and plan longterm. Which I still have faith in Ole to continue.
Most of you that believe it's impossible for Ole to be qualified for this job because of his past, I believe are selling yourselves short for what you could do yourselves. There's usually not that much difference between people in high-profile jobs and your more average positions. A lot of it is having the right mindset and a bit of luck to be in the right place at the right time.
How do you think wed have started the season under Poch after having only half the squad play one pre season friendly ???It beggars belief how 2/3 of the Cafe are happy to keep Ole. We really deserve everything we get.
Most people do not try to be better. One can argue that it's because they do not believe in themselves, but for me the biggest reason is because they are too lazy to do it. And then when they accept they cannot be better they assume the same for other people too. It's difficult to value ambition and drive when you do not possess those qualities. Worst thing is that most people honestly believe they are ambitious and driven but "don't have a knack for X or Y". Best example I can give is programming. The majority of people would say they could never learn to code. If you ask if they've ever tried, most would say "No" and from the ones who say "Yes", they wouldn't have spend any real time or effort in it. They assume that those are skills you are born with and you feel naturally at ease. That's BS but go on and try to convince someone...It's just laziness and then finding excuses for one's life and circumstances.I always thought at the time, even before PSG, that if they wanted to give it to Ole permanently, if they were convinced by his longterm strategy after working with him for months, instead of just the quick phonecall meetings after Mou sacking. That they had to give it to him fast while public opinion was high instead of waiting till the end of the season, as I didn't think the lucky string could continue much longer. Mind you I never expected it to go as badly in that end of season as it did.
I knew it would take time, but I also didn't see anyone that could come in and create amazing results out of thin air in just a season or two. We had to start thinking differently and plan longterm. Which I still have faith in Ole to continue.
Most of you that believe it's impossible for Ole to be qualified for this job because of his past, I believe are selling yourselves short for what you could do yourselves. There's usually not that much difference between people in high-profile jobs and your more average positions. A lot of it is having the right mindset and a bit of luck to be in the right place at the right time.
Well then I wasn't speaking to you with that point in mind.No, it's pretty much based on the present.
I somewhat agree. I do think he was fecked by the board this window. With all the fitness issues and negativity around the club, we needed something to lift the spirits and we didn't get him what he wanted. That being said, he should be getting far more out of the players that are here than we've seen this season. If results don't improve to better reflect the actual ability of this squad soon, we need to start planning for the next managerGive Ole a couple of months to show that the past games this season were only due to fitness problems, which I really doubt. If results improve significantly, then stick with him until winter break and then decide. If things do not change much, start talking to alternatives in December. Solskjaer has brought in a lot of players and needs to show that he can get 100% out of every player's potential. He has no excuses from now on. I doubt the Board will take risk of missing out on CL next season. Eexpect them to be proactive this time around.
We didn't finish very well, we had initial 3 or 4 good performances after the break and that was it.Well then I wasn't speaking to you with that point in mind.
There's plenty others using that argument.
Looking at just the present I think it's knee-jerky to bring out the gallows after 3 games considering how we finished the last season not long ago.
It's a bit offtopic discussion for this thread, but I agree. And it does have a bit to say about how people look at what qualifications you do need, i.e. 5 years experience for entry-level jobs.Most people do not try to be better. One can argue that it's because they do not believe in themselves, but for me the biggest reason is because they are too lazy to do it. And then when they accept they cannot be better they assume the same for other people too. It's difficult to value ambition and drive when you do not possess those qualities. Worst thing is that most people honestly believe they are ambitious and driven but "don't have a knack for X or Y". Best example I can give is programming. The majority of people would say they could never learn to code. If you ask if they've ever tried, most would say "No" and from the ones who say "Yes", they wouldn't have spend any real time or effort in it. They assume that those are skills you are born with and you feel naturally at ease. That's BS but go on and try to convince someone...It's just laziness and then finding excuses for one's life and circumstances.
No team is good in every match, but being able to grind out results despite of it is usually what makes a good team.We didn't finish very well, we had initial 3 or 4 good performances after the break and that was it.
I remember the start of the 2nd half against Bournemouth, you could go look at it again and the team looked as shambolic in the back as it's now. What's happening now is basically a continuation of last season, results and position could paper over the cracks only for the short term.
Following the league doesn't allow me to think I know it better than someone who has all but admitted he knows literally nothing about it? Do you know how ridiculous you sound?I’m not acting like a victim I just don’t see why you are throwing your toys out of the pram and you seem to assume your nationality qualifies you to be right.
Ole ran out of ideas and Molde needed someone to take them that next step, does hindsight appear to support that, definitely but it’s not definitive proof either way. Does you being Norwegian and having watched football qualify you to assume you are right about anything and act petulantly, not in my opinion.
So am I but feel that the job will slip away from him if he isn't willing to address some of the tactical challenges our opponents are imposing. Pogba and AWB are clearly being targetted and we are yet to figure out a way to deal with that. His insistance on Pogba so far this season hasn't paid off yet and I do hope the fitness levels building up is worth it. Fred and McT must be a bit frustrated, waiting on the bench when they deliver a better product right now.It's a bit offtopic discussion for this thread, but I agree. And it does have a bit to say about how people look at what qualifications you do need, i.e. 5 years experience for entry-level jobs.
I did programming in Uni, I did OK at it, but even though I was big into maths and a big fan of logic puzzles, I just didn't find it interesting enough. (Maybe I was lazy )
But yeah, ambition and drive can get you far.
Of course, when you are in the hotseat you have to deliver over time, and for me Ole is still progressing the club well from where we were. I am still very positive for the future.
I haven’t admitted anything it’s all an assumption, you can have an opinion by following a League doesn’t mean it’s right or it’s the only opinion. When you saying you know more because your Norwegian I had a good laugh and didn’t see any point trying to engage in rational way beyond that point.Following the league doesn't allow me to think I know it better than someone who has all but admitted he knows literally nothing about it? Do you know how ridiculous you sound?
Following the league doesn't automatically make his opinion more right no, but it makes it much more likely to be right than someone who Isn't following the league.I haven’t admitted anything it’s all an assumption, you can have an opinion by following a League doesn’t mean it’s right or it’s the only opinion. When you saying you know more because your Norwegian I had a good laugh and didn’t see any point trying to engage in rational way beyond that point.
It seems like we've already forgotten some of the football we played last year. After the break we were brilliant, picked up more points than any other team and we had some great games against other big 6 sides which were in no small part down to Oles tactics.The football is dire, we are lucky to have some points on the board, because if we continue like this, we would end up in a relegation battle.
Ole should be doing better with what he has, he should be doing better with that defence that we invested in heavily last year and he should be big enough to drop certain players that haven't put in the effort needed to implement his strategy. Until he fixes these issues he can have no complaints if he losses his job.
Ed woodward is a leech and as much as we think he's incompetent, he's never going to lose his job.
I didn't say you had admitted it, I said you've all but admitted it. It's an assumption, yes, and I've never said otherwise. I think it's a fair assumption based on the fact that you keep dodging questions about how you've formed your opinion on Ole's second stint at Molde in favour of attacking me for thinking I could possibly be more familiar with the league than you.I haven’t admitted anything it’s all an assumption, you can have an opinion by following a League doesn’t mean it’s right or it’s the only opinion. When you saying you know more because your Norwegian I had a good laugh and didn’t see any point trying to engage in rational way beyond that point.
You would think a £100k pay packet and the chance to shine as an elite athlete would be a good enough incentive for anyone.Most people do not try to be better. One can argue that it's because they do not believe in themselves, but for me the biggest reason is because they are too lazy to do it. And then when they accept they cannot be better they assume the same for other people too. It's difficult to value ambition and drive when you do not possess those qualities. Worst thing is that most people honestly believe they are ambitious and driven but "don't have a knack for X or Y". Best example I can give is programming. The majority of people would say they could never learn to code. If you ask if they've ever tried, most would say "No" and from the ones who say "Yes", they wouldn't have spend any real time or effort in it. They assume that those are skills you are born with and you feel naturally at ease. That's BS but go on and try to convince someone...It's just laziness and then finding excuses for one's life and circumstances.
I think it's a fair question to ask why you have that opinion, and/or elaborate on the opinion itself. And if you haven't watched or followed norwegian football, it's even more interesting. Having a balanced discussion about his time in Molde is fine, but if your opinion on his time there is based on a hunch or what a few people has said on here, it certainly changes the context of the discussion. That's not being narrow minded, or thinking that "I'm right, you're wrong", it's just setting a certain standard.No insults, I just don’t see point in trying to rationalise with someone who has already assumed they are completely right and know everything and that a different opinion is wrong and made up because they don’t like it. I’m just saying he ran out of ideas, ultimately it can’t be proved either way, if you don’t like it just move on.
I’m not asking you to evidence your opinion he hadn’t run out of ideas and justify your expertise or knowledge because you can’t. If you did I could just adopt your approach and say, well they won the league without him so you’re wrong.
I believe Ole ran out of ideas he doesn’t, you can find season ticket holders anywhere that talk nonsense, following something doesn’t mean you know everything.Following the league doesn't automatically make his opinion more right no, but it makes it much more likely to be right than someone who Isn't following the league.
Yeah it's an assumption that you aren't following the Norwegian league, but a right one to assume since he asked you several times and you always avoided the question.
Him saying he's Norwegian is just to point out how much more likely it is that he follows the league, not to mention have news of it communicated through his own local media.
Sorry I might have not followed the full conversation. But what’s your answer to Ole at Norway?I think it's a fair question to ask why you have that opinion, and/or elaborate on the opinion itself. And if you haven't watched or followed norwegian football, it's even more interesting. Having a balanced discussion about his time in Molde is fine, but if your opinion on his time there is based on a hunch or what a few people has said on here, it certainly changes the context of the discussion. That's not being narrow minded, or thinking that "I'm right, you're wrong", it's just setting a certain standard.
"Breaking Bad is such a bad TV-show. I haven't seen it, but I still have this opinion, and if you disagree you're narrow minded"
"Sachin Tendulkar is overrated. I know nothing about cricket, but if you ask me to elaborate on my opinion you're forcing me to blindly bow down"
"Boca Juniors play boring, defensive football and the manager have lost the plot entirely. I haven't seen a single game they've played, but stop asking me why I think the way I do. I don't have to prove anything!!!"
"Ole is the best coach the norwegian league has ever seen. I won't tell you why, I won't tell you if I've ever seen his teams play, and if you ask me why, you're a jerk".
Ole did a great job at Molde, and changed the club forever, breaking records and attracting the best talent for years. And the club is still reaping the rewards. His successors did great with what they inherited for a while, before slowly fading, as proven again this year.Sorry I might have not followed the full conversation. But what’s your answer to Ole at Norway?
But here we dont agree and since there is no concrete evidence for either outcome its all just guesswork. I do think fan pressure can make a difference though. Remember before Christmas last year? I am in no shape or form suggesting violence and attacking his house was a scumme thing to do, but the pressure on Woodwards really amped up then and i think it might have helped us sign BrunoBut it most likely won’t change and if Woodward goes he may well get replaced by someone similar, same as the board. This club could spend less on transfers, less on wages and be more successful if it was run competently. There has been ample opportunity to being in a DOF but the club aren’t interested.
It doesn’t matter what fans think about Woodward, the Glazers don’t care, they don’t really care what fans think about the manager either.
All that is likely to change is the manager and the coaches, that might change half a dozen more time’s before Woodward goes.
Ole did a great job at Molde, and changed the club forever, breaking records and attracting the best talent for years. And the club is still reaping the rewards. His successors did great with what they inherited for a while, before slowly fading, as proven again this year.
A disclaimer is that I hate Molde with a passion. They're literally the team I hate the most in the Norwegian league, alongside Brann and (now relegated) Lillestrøm. I want to say that they've done bad, and that Ole didn't perform or lost the plot or whatever, but after all the pain and suffering he's cost me as a fan of another team, it would require some pretty drastic mental gymnastics to come to that conclusion.
He did some morally questionable/despicable things while in charge, and you can certainly argue that he lost a lot of respect from a huge part of norwegian football fans (and the general population), but that has nothing to do with his performance as a manager. You can point to his shady dealings with agent/friend Jim Solbakken, but again, a different thing.
There are so many things you can say about Ole as a manager, and even as a person. His time in Wales, his results with us, his tactical ability, his persona, his moral. There are thousands of arguments to back up any negative opinion about him. His results and sporting legacy as a manager of Molde FK is not one of them. He didn't run out of ideas at all, he got a job in Manchester instead.
Of course, this is all my own opinion, and everyone is free to have a different opinion. That's fair, expected and respected. But if that opinion is based on nothing at all, I think the opinion is less valid.
If you actually read what i wrote it was the flipfloppers i refered to as drama queens and there is quite a few of them.Don’t need to, you shot your mouth off and still are.
To be fair, nobody's questioned my opinion. It's me, @Halftrack and @Matriac questioning @Roboc7.No that’s fair enough and I have to believe you if you’ve paid a lot more attention to the league than others.
I think those that question you probably just have the wrong idea. You’re not promoting what he’s done for United just pointing out your facts on what you seen him do for Molde.
Great Post.I’m a big believer in backing the manager and understanding/allowing the process. It can take 4 years before a manager has a team he wants and players playing the way he wants them to, we’ve seen that throughout the PL. The most organised teams have managers that have been there more than 3 years.
However, when you get hammered 6-1 and could have been hammered every game so far this season, you have to start asking serious questions.
It looks to me as though he’s either lost the dressing room or there’s a lot of fighting/blame culture behind the scenes between the players. I still think we need to get rid of a few that aren’t good enough or replace them with better players, but we also need a manager that’s going to support and improve players in a system.
For example, pound for pound, the Leeds players aren’t better than United players but they bought into a system and believe in it. They know exactly what to do when they either have the ball or don’t have the ball. We look unorganised and clueless because we’re relying on big names to dictate the play, when they’re clearly not capable or have no experience of doing so.
Writings on the wall at this stage.
Of course he would. A lot of the stuff happening on the pitch is mostly due to bad coaching or tactics. These are International players playing for big teams. What you practice day in and day out is what you get on match day. Set pieces have to be practiced. Two v two or one v one or even two v one has to be practiced. Corners have to be practiced till you get it absolutely right. Movements on and off the ball has to be practiced. How to create space and how to find space and most importantly how to pass into space. These are all practiced. This is not a testimonial for players.Sometimes I wonder if Ole would do better with a really good, proven coaching staff.
Carrick and McKenna have done absolutely zero to warrant their lofty positions on the coaching staff and pitch side. Pitch side, what is the point of them being there - they look like they do nothing.
Ditto Phelan. He achieved his status as right hand man to an absolute genius. Since then, he’s been a walking disaster yet here he is as Ole’s #2.
At what level is having such a weak coaching set up acceptable at an elite club? Woodward allowing this to happen is a further sign of his weakness.
Ideally, Ole and all his staff need to go but a restructuring of the coaching set up could be a great step forward.
I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have got pummeled and annihilated by Palace, Brighton and Spurs. We are genuinely lucky not to have conceded 6-7 each game.How do you think wed have started the season under Poch after having only half the squad play one pre season friendly ???
Let's not forget City have only 1 more pt than we do and also got embarrassed on their home ground. There's a reason for it. The PL/FA have royally shafted the clubs who were still in Europe.