It is not fair united get as much TV rights money as Man shitty, Chelski and spuds. Gigantic club like united should get the highest portion of the revenues.Our net spend in the last 5 years is higher then City and our Wage bill is also higher . Who are u kidding?
Bad work shouldn't be awarded, and the rule gives Immense Power to the top club 6
the only fans that want this are those who think the biggest clubs be maximising every last penny of revenue available and those who are Utd fans just want to see us winning the league year in year out having blown away the competition through spending power.I honestly can’t believe there are fans who are for this. It has nothing to do with helping the common fan or lower league clubs and everything to do with bolstering the pockets of the wealthy, as usual.
Because you were lucky enough to get Ferguson as manager and hit a winning streak as the premier league kicked off? It could have been Liverpool, it could have been Arsenal or someone else. The product (the league) drove your club to new heights. You are a gigantic global brand in no small part because of the premier league as a whole, don't forget that.It is not fair united get as much TV rights money as Man shitty, Chelski and spuds. Gigantic club like united should get the highest portion of the revenues.
Well, what was stopping other clubs to do that? I don't see any logic to your claim that now, all of a sudden, the other PL clubs will begin loaning out the maximum number of players. The opportunity was there for them to do so for many years but they didn't take it.That was just Chelsea doing it, imagine if you had several clubs doing it.
It wasn’t really something other clubs did but make no mistake it was only the rule change coming in that stopped it getting out of control. I have no doubts bigger clubs were looking at Chelseas player laundering scheme and hoping to do the same.
I haven't seen any proposed binding document (like a contract) but I would imagine that the 25% revenue distribution is a founding principle and cannot be changed without revoking the whole agreement, so in essence what you're implying won't be possible.Yeah much better deal now but remember it comes at the expense of all the power and decision making going to a few clubs. Once a few years pass and tv deals and the like are renegotiated with the inevitable rise in income what do you think will then happen?
As you rightly pointed out yourself, United playing 12 games in the US or Asia benefitted United and their local partners (and fans, as a byproduct of commercial decisions). Now apply the same for all other PL clubs and you will get why the pre-season tournaments are preferred to the League Cup.I think to imply people prefer pre season tournaments to competitive cup football is nonsense, you must be alone on that one. The sole purpose of these pointless games is money. United playing 12 games in the states or Asia in the summer benefits United and the Glazers. So it’s revenue for United.
I am neither condemning nor approving this proposed set of changes. Just trying to make sense of it and applying my own logic to understand the rationale.Like I said previously this is not the end game. It’s only the beginning of the attempted overhaul of our football system. Shouldn’t be looking at this as a business opportunity.
Furthering on from @Munkehboi post.
Will English football still be the draw it is if we get 8 Manchester derbies a season in various pre season tournaments and then when the inevitable league splits happen, another 4-6 Manchester derbies a season in the league.
It is very rare on this site to see a thread where most people agree but if you look through this thread, the overwhelming majority are condemning this new structure and that says a lot.
Neither do I but who cares about you or me? Football clubs are businesses and those in the PL are ran with the sole purpose of creating more value for their shareholders/owners.It’s an interesting perspective you have. I don’t deny that this will have a commercial benefit.
however, that’s not why I watch football. Football is a community sport.
The new revenue distribution scheme will bring a lot more money to L1/L2 teams than any number of games they play in the League Cup. Especially if those clubs do not survive to play next season's Cup (currently a lot of clubs are on the brink of bankruptcy and that explains the timing of this proposal) or if future seasons are played behind closed doors again.to dismiss the league club as benefiting very few clubs is complete BS. When a L2 or L1 team play a top club, it can keep them afloat for the next 12 months. You can say that’s replaced by moremoney coming through, but you are denying those clubs another opportunity to play against bigger teams, that’s what keeps clubs going, those special matches, the thrill of being the underdog. That’s not something to throw away.
I don't know how many football fans care about the winner of the Etihad Cup but since that tournament exists, I am pretty certain it makes a lot of commercial sense. And since clubs are ran as businesses, i.e. to make profits and create value for their shareholders/owners, that's all that matters.I’m not on board with a pre season tournament, it does nothing except bring in revenue, and I won’t be watching it. Football fans won’t care who is the winner of the Ethiad Cup.
I agree, it has already backfired. We are yet to see to what extent. I assume this is just a step in the bargaining process and there will be a middleground until the end of the year, maybe sooner.the issue here, is that clubs can only extract so much money and goodwill from fans. I won’t be tuning in, and couldn’t care less about any friendly matches.
this has the potential to lead to the end of the PL. will be interesting to know who long this has been cooking for, and why only 2 clubs are involved.
has a very high chance of backfiring.
Re-evaluation is no bad thing. But think this has the potential to go pretty badly wrong for Liverpool and United.
The League Cup, however, is under the EFL and FA banner, which means that the distribution of revenues is not directly controlled by the same agents as the pre-season summer tournaments. Why share a bigger percentage of the revenues when you can avoid it?based on money and nothing else, will be a bit misleading due to in being held in different parts of the world so fans will obviosuly flock to see it, if you done the league cup games in these country's they would sell out as well and make good money as well, but will really just be friendly matches.
Ta, and ill argue the cause till the cow comes home....You've made some great posts in this thread. Just wanted to say fair play, I've enjoyed reading them all.
It just wasn't something that was done, I mean come on, why else would it be thrown in there if not to solely benefit the big clubs financially? People have seen what Chelsea have done over the last few years and it's clear this added rule is an attempt to copy that formula.Well, what was stopping other clubs to do that? I don't see any logic to your claim that now, all of a sudden, the other PL clubs will begin loaning out the maximum number of players. The opportunity was there for them to do so for many years but they didn't take it.
I don' t know if you're a Man United fan but if you are, we above else should know that if the Glazer family are putting something like this forward, that the end game and goal will be more money in their pockets, no Manchester United fan on this planet is going to benefit from the increased finances. Be assured, the goalposts will change, hence why they want voting power to shift. How much more fecking money do we want these parasites to take from the club, what do you think is the end result if this goes ahead? More money on United transfers? wrong, in the Glazer family trust fund. Hell even if they spent it you can almost certainly count on them spending it very badly.I haven't seen any proposed binding document (like a contract) but I would imagine that the 25% revenue distribution is a founding principle and cannot be changed without revoking the whole agreement, so in essence what you're implying won't be possible.
You cannot apply the same for all other Premier League clubs because there is zero benefit of the likes of Burnley, Palace and West Ham going on 12 game pre season tours in America and Asia. There is no financial incentive for them because there is no audience in those places for those clubs. Honestly, if Palace played Burnley in New York tomorrow, how many people do you think would turn up?As you rightly pointed out yourself, United playing 12 games in the US or Asia benefitted United and their local partners (and fans, as a byproduct of commercial decisions). Now apply the same for all other PL clubs and you will get why the pre-season tournaments are preferred to the League Cup.
If you look at who is pushing this and read between the lines it is very obvious the rational behind it, you cannot allow every footballing decision made in this country to be made by essentially a handful of foreign Premier League chairmen. It is very very dangerous.I am neither condemning nor approving this proposed set of changes. Just trying to make sense of it and applying my own logic to understand the rationale.
Neither do I but who cares about you or me? Football clubs are businesses and those in the PL are ran with the sole purpose of creating more value for their shareholders/owners.
The right thing to do would be to try and find a solution without trying to bring a dramatic change to the structure, the rich PL clubs shouldn't be trying to bribe or trick those struggling into these shady terms. PL clubs spent a billion on transfers this summer, the majority of that spent by a select number of clubs. We're in a climate where it is so important that people do not act in a selfish manner but I guess it's stupid to expect anything different from people like the Glazer family.The new revenue distribution scheme will bring a lot more money to L1/L2 teams than any number of games they play in the League Cup. Especially if those clubs do not survive to play next season's Cup (currently a lot of clubs are on the brink of bankruptcy and that explains the timing of this proposal) or if future seasons are played behind closed doors again.
I'll tell you how many, zero. I'm not against pre season tours, I think it's only fair that once a year worldwide supporters get to see PL clubs but it should never come at the expense of league and cup games. It is English football, not English football played in American or other. This insistence on taking the PL abroad is tiresome, you saw it with the 39th game rubbish and now this.I don't know how many football fans care about the winner of the Etihad Cup but since that tournament exists, I am pretty certain it makes a lot of commercial sense. And since clubs are ran as businesses, i.e. to make profits and create value for their shareholders/owners, that's all that matters.
The premier would only have 18 so 2 would drop from league 2 as it's called at the momentLeague Cup is just pointless nowadays IMO, it's an unnecessary additional competition that adds games to an already-packed schedule. France sacked theirs off, I don't think Italy, Spain or Germany have one either so just us. I'd welcome it's abolishment. As for the Community Shield, I don't mind it because it's effectively a Super Cup-esque season-opener but wouldn't lose sleep if it was eradicated too.
Not sure I understand the maths between the second point of note, there are already 24 teams in those three divisions so how does that lower the overall total of pro clubs in the English league system?
I'm close to itApparently there is mention of the "Big 6" resigning from the Premier League, make no mistake if United resign from the League, and then there's the possibility of this "Super League" or whatever, I am absolutely done with this club, it's already starting to not resemble the club i grew up and fell in love with but this would be the final straw.
And that's the most important part for the greedy bastards. The rest is all window dressing.Most controversial part is this, which Samid left out:
Yeah it is not fun to see what football has become. I rarely feel totally up for it anymore.I'm close to it
It's not about football for a long time and now they aren't even trying to hide it.
I'm done for the most part. Cant even be bothered trying to regain my Mojo when it comes to Football.
What is the point in football if the same team wins it every year.It is not fair united get as much TV rights money as Man shitty, Chelski and spuds. Gigantic club like united should get the highest portion of the revenues.
Yep. It's sinister.I honestly can’t believe there are fans who are for this. It has nothing to do with helping the common fan or lower league clubs and everything to do with bolstering the pockets of the wealthy, as usual.
No lets not go that farWhat is the point in football if the same team wins it every year.
Football shouldn't be won the team with the most fans, it should be won by the team with the best players.
Give everyone in the League the same transfer budget I say
I think there's enough of a carrot out there to be taken. Although like you say it's really about the big 6 maintaining their control. The voting parameters they have suggested are a joke. I'm not in favour of the Premier league reducing to 18 teams. I'm interested to know what they would do with the extra time (probably more lucrative friendlies around the world or more champions league games).I honestly can’t believe there are fans who are for this. It has nothing to do with helping the common fan or lower league clubs and everything to do with bolstering the pockets of the wealthy, as usual.
I really don't understand how is that any different and how not being able to loan players will solve anything. Clubs will find other ways to hover talent. Like the Pozzo family having a circle of clubs. Or the City Group of clubs.Ta, and ill argue the cause till the cow comes home....
It just wasn't something that was done, I mean come on, why else would it be thrown in there if not to solely benefit the big clubs financially? People have seen what Chelsea have done over the last few years and it's clear this added rule is an attempt to copy that formula.
Yes, of course, the end goal here is more money. That's plain and simple but what everybody needs to understand is that EVERY decision is made with more money in mind. Don't be naive. Nobody cares about anything else. It's just that sometimes, for some things, incentives align and while owners get more money, fans get what they want (usually, spectacle).I don' t know if you're a Man United fan but if you are, we above else should know that if the Glazer family are putting something like this forward, that the end game and goal will be more money in their pockets, no Manchester United fan on this planet is going to benefit from the increased finances. Be assured, the goalposts will change, hence why they want voting power to shift. How much more fecking money do we want these parasites to take from the club, what do you think is the end result if this goes ahead? More money on United transfers? wrong, in the Glazer family trust fund. Hell even if they spent it you can almost certainly count on them spending it very badly.
So that's why smaller clubs have begun having those pre-season Asia/US/Australia tours more and more in recent years? And fans turn up for both teams playing, not for one only. That's why those tournaments involve the big clubs from other European leagues. You don't need to argue with me on this. Facts and history prove my point. The off-season tournaments are happening more and more. If you think that's because they aren't making the participants money, I can't really say anything.You cannot apply the same for all other Premier League clubs because there is zero benefit of the likes of Burnley, Palace and West Ham going on 12 game pre season tours in America and Asia. There is no financial incentive for them because there is no audience in those places for those clubs. Honestly, if Palace played Burnley in New York tomorrow, how many people do you think would turn up?
It is also a very stupid idea for football players to be flying around to countless countries in such a short period of time playing a dozen friendlies in such high temperatures weeks before a new season starts.
The rationale is to make the owners/shareholders make more money. Simple as that. Fans are both product and customers. But your logic of matchgoing fans and 'traditional and conservative' fans do not have any say in this, at least from a commercial perspective, I'm afraid. The global fans outweigh the local fans many times to one.If you look at who is pushing this and read between the lines it is very obvious the rational behind it, you cannot allow every footballing decision made in this country to be made by essentially a handful of foreign Premier League chairmen. It is very very dangerous.
That sounds idealistic to the point of naive. I think this will not be the final solution but you can be sure that there will be increased power for the big clubs because they control the money right now. And the smaller clubs need money to survive the immediate danger or bankruptcy.The right thing to do would be to try and find a solution without trying to bring a dramatic change to the structure, the rich PL clubs shouldn't be trying to bribe or trick those struggling into these shady terms. PL clubs spent a billion on transfers this summer, the majority of that spent by a select number of clubs. We're in a climate where it is so important that people do not act in a selfish manner but I guess it's stupid to expect anything different from people like the Glazer family.
Dude, if you say 'zero' that doesn't make it true. You know that Arsenal organize the Emirates cup for many years now, same as Bayern's Audi Cup. Do you think that is done out of vanity?I'll tell you how many, zero. I'm not against pre season tours, I think it's only fair that once a year worldwide supporters get to see PL clubs but it should never come at the expense of league and cup games. It is English football, not English football played in American or other. This insistence on taking the PL abroad is tiresome, you saw it with the 39th game rubbish and now this.
Random musings.
- £100 million one-off gift to the FA to cover its coronavirus losses, the non-league game, the women’s game, the grassroots
- 8.5 per cent of annual net Premier League revenue to go on operating costs and “good causes” including the FA
- From the remainder, 25 per cent of all combined Premier League and Football League revenues to go to the EFL clubs
- Six per cent of Premier League gross revenues to pay for stadium improvements across the top four divisions, calculated at £100 per seat
New rules for the distribution of Premier League television income, overseas and domestic, including proposals that base one portion on performance over three years in the leagueThe abolition of the League Cup and the Community Shield- Reform the League Cup and FA Cup, allowing the 7/8 European sides to enter the League Cup at Round of 16 (saves one game) and the give the four League Cup finalists an additional bye in the FA Cup (saves one game)
- Have the Community Shield as the first game on Saturday 12:00 of the new season. The two clubs involved can then play their first proper match in mid-week.
- 24 clubs each in the Championship, League One and League Two r
educing the professional game overall from 92 clubs to 90- A women's professional league independent of the Premier League or the FA (Why?)
Two sides automatically relegated from the Premier League every season and the top two Championship teams promoted. The 16th place Premier League club in a play-off tournament with the Championship’s third, fourth and fifth placed teams.- Give the three failed Championship Playoff Teams, a one-off payment each year roughly equal to a single parachute payment for a Prem Team
- Require all Premier League teams to submit a "relegation survival plan" explaining how they are going to cut wages and "survive" relegation *before* the start of each transfer window. If they cannot explain how they would survive, they are barred from signing players. Even if they can survive they are given a transfer budget and wage budget to work agreed between themselves and the Premier League. This is private and confidential and not shared with other clubs.
- Financial fair play regulations in line with Uefa, and full access for Premier League executive to club accounts
- A fan charter including capping of away tickets at £20, away travel subsidised, a focus on a return to safe standing, a minimum away allocation of eight per cent capacity
Later Premier League start in August to give greater scope for pre-season friendlies, and requirement for all clubs to compete once every five years in a summer Premier League tournament- Start the Premier League two weeks later in "even years" and start the League two weeks earlier in "odd years" i.e. In Euro or World Cup years, give the players two weeks break afterwards, and preceding Euro or World Cup years, give the players an additional two weeks breaks before
- FA Cup Final to always be the last domestic game of season. FA Cup Semi final to be much closer to the FA Cup Final and FA Cup Quarter Final close to the Semi Finals.
- FA Cup Quarter Finals to be at neutral venues, two in the North, two in the South.
- FA Cup Semi Finals to be held one in the North if two Northern teams are competing.
- Huge changes to loan system allowing clubs to have 15 players out on loan domestically at any one time and up to four at a single club in England
Most league's are already like this. It doesn't take Albert Einstein to predict the winners of the Italian league, Scottish league, German league or the Portuguese league.What is the point in football if the same team wins it every year.
Football shouldn't be won the team with the most fans, it should be won by the team with the best players.
Give everyone in the League the same transfer budget I say
Break it down between World Cups and Euro championships. Players would be playing all year every yearDoes anyone else find this one really strange
- Requirement for all clubs to compete once every five years in a summer Premier League tournament
This is obviously some sort of Premier League International tournament... which we all know they want.
But why every five years?
Exactly. The Glazers will never leave if they get this much power. I oppose this whole thing simply because I am against an American takeover of English football. Before you know it every stadium in the premiership will be full of people waving stupid plastic flags and drinking Budweiser.Sounds horrible and blatant power Move from American Owners to get control over the Premier league using the Pandemic.
What is the point in football if the same team wins it every year.
Football shouldn't be won the team with the most fans, it should be won by the team with the best players.
Give everyone in the League the same transfer budget I say
Why not?No lets not go that far
I mean they are professional footballers. I work all year every year tooBreak it down between World Cups and Euro championships. Players would be playing all year every year
If you want this sort of equal playing field stuff, maybe watch American sports instead. Where johnny come latelys can just step in with those who have done their time.Why not?
What are the biggest team sporting events in the world?
1. World Cup. Money buys you better facilities and coaches to train players, but you can't buy players. (well only a little)
2. Olympics. Money buys you better facilities and coaches to train players, but you can't buy players. (well only a little)
3. NFL. Closed shop where players are distributed in a draft model.
4. UEFA Champions League. The first in our list where players are bought and sold through vast swathes of money. However, its a fairly equal competition amongst the big boys, which each of Europes big countries having one or two teams to funnel their leagues resources through.
5. I should probably put something crickety next, but I don't really know what is *the* cricket competition that everyone wants to win. Is it the World Cup? The IPL? What is the one competition every young cricketer wants to win? Dunno.
6. NBA. Similar to NFL.
Sport doesn't need money like this to be exciting. Give everyone in the Premier League the same budget.
Nonsense, United worked hard to be popular and famous, the fans watching the games and pouring billions into the leagues is because of united. Nobody cares about Leiciester or Westham outside England. Give everyone what their fans pay. I dont want to give my money to fecking Brighton.What is the point in football if the same team wins it every year.
Football shouldn't be won the team with the most fans, it should be won by the team with the best players.
Give everyone in the League the same transfer budget I say
Great points, well made. Tragically, MUFC has grown so big that it’s now controlled by owners and fans who have no ties to Manchester. We really are being driven towards an NFL way of life.As the Saudi Royal family takeover thread showed, we have a very vocal portion of our fanbase that don’t care about anything except United being able to sign Mbappe and Graelish every summer. This is just another route of that same train of thought, whereby we should get more money than anyone else so we can spend it on transfers and steamroll the league.
No care for what is fair and equitable, no care foe the good of the game or what is best for football in England as a whole. Very depressing.
1000%, the reaction on here is not bad but the crazy defending of it on RAWK is kinda disgusting (albeit there are many people even calling it out there)I honestly can’t believe there are fans who are for this. It has nothing to do with helping the common fan or lower league clubs and everything to do with bolstering the pockets of the wealthy, as usual.
The problem is letting the league become La Liga etc.. kills the product, the PL and thereby United sell themselves on the league being more open and competitive. Closing the shop eliminates the competitive nature and England is arguably the last one left. A league that United win every season, with Arsenal 2nd and Liverpool 3rd is pretty much any other top division in European football.Nonsense, United worked hard to be popular and famous, the fans watching the games and pouring billions into the leagues is because of united. Nobody cares about Leiciester or Westham outside England. Give everyone what their fans pay. I dont want to give my money to fecking Brighton.
The funny thing is, you are wrong on two levels.Nonsense, United worked hard to be popular and famous, the fans watching the games and pouring billions into the leagues is because of united. Nobody cares about Leiciester or Westham outside England. Give everyone what their fans pay. I dont want to give my money to fecking Brighton.