Leo looks a right clown aftet this. I guess being cosied up big business lobbyists only stretches so thin
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
genuinely don’t think there’s any need to lock down nationally, where I live we peaked at 64 cases per 100,000 and we are coming back down, what’s the point in closing stuff here and wasting money on supporting us when we don’t need it? The current measures are working in many places so seems mad to cripple them just because
I really hope Im completely wrong. Maybe we will return to the old normal but I dont see it as a fast return, anyway fingers crossed your thoughts are on the money.
Amazing that it's come to this. A shocking failure of our government to not use the last nine months to increase ICU capacity, implement better tracing, have tests at airports etc. A total shambles. There should be an election after this.
Unbelievable that we are going to be the first country in Europe to go back into a full lockdown after being the last fecking country in Europe to go out of it. We are a laughing stock.
The Tánaiste is to blame? How’d you figure that out?
One of the most boring things in this whole poxy pandemic is the way people need to blame whichever politician they like the least for fecking everything.
There are no easy decisions here. Jumping straight to stage 5 from stage 3 would have been a huge call and I can understand why the government wanted to see if slightly tighter restrictions for a couple of weeks might delay the inevitable. “Big business” is keeping a lot of people in jobs and will be even more badly hurt if we end up locking down longer as a result of this delay.
The one thing I think people can be legitimately pissed off about is the death by a thousand cuts we get with each decision, thanks to all these fecking leaks to the press. Blows my mind that we have people in positions of power that have access to such sensitive information and they can’t keep their gobs shut. Infuriating.
Well he did speed through the phases so everything would be open just before he stepped aside and unnecessarily jumped on NPHET on national tv 2 weeks ago making them out to be heartless animals who didnt care if people lost their jobs.
I dont see the difference between this week and that, are they more prepared for level 5 now? Are workers suddenly more secure?
They also inferred that NPHET leaked the recommendation so who leaked this development?
Its all unnecessary grandstanding.
So which of the current measures is actually working and where.
Because in virtually every part of the UK, cases are on the increase.
Well I’m taking where I live in Cheltenham as an example, ours are dropping, Gloucester is stable and cases are so low in both itd be mad for us to be shut down and need support money that could be used to better effect elsewhere
Other regions didn’t factor in the lag time. Not saying you’re wrong but would be interesting to see what would happen if just one area was omitted from national measures.
His comments on NPHET were almost as annoying as the leaks, I agree. Playing the disagreements out in public helps nobody.
It’s funny that Varadkar is getting shit from you now for speeding through the phases too quickly in summer, on the same page that @Massive Spanner is also giving him shit for Ireland coming out of the first lockdown slower than most other EU countries. That’s why everyone making decisions in this shit show is in a lose lose scenario. Every move they make will inevitably piss a load of people off.
I still don’t see why schools stay open for level 5, especially when Halloween is a great chance to do a “circuit breaker”
I note that this lockdown is recommended to last six weeks, while the advice previously rejected by government was asking for four. Is it too simplistic to say the delay in acting on NPHET added two weeks?
I also wonder about the economic effect of lockdown being pushed closer to Christmas. This one will in effect end a month later than the prior recommended one.
Normally I'd be inclined to say there was nothing government could have done that wouldn't have resulted in criticism but given Leo was happy to criticise NPHET for not thinking through their recommendations, it's probably fair to ask how well thought-through the government's plan was too. After all, they were explicitly told level 3 wouldn't work and would just result in a delayed introduction of Level 5. As a wise man once said, chat shit get banged.
I also wonder about the economic effect of lockdown being pushed closer to Christmas. This one will in effect end a month later than the prior recommended one.
Normally I'd be inclined to say there was nothing government could have done that wouldn't have resulted in criticism but given Leo was happy to criticise NPHET for not thinking through their recommendations, it's probably fair to ask how well thought-through the government's plan was too. After all, they were explicitly told level 3 wouldn't work and would just result in a delayed introduction of Level 5. As a wise man once said, chat shit get banged.
Least inspiring chap ever
Winter is Coming
Does seem like they’re missing a trick to not stick an extra week on the half term break.
I guess they’ve decided that the data shows schools are not a significant contributor and it’s in the interest of society to keep them open. They should be a bit more explicit about that second bit, mind you.
I actually think we need some sort of people’s forum. To decide what our priorities are going to be while we live with this fecking thing (as it looks like eradication is off the table). I’d like to see amateur sport a bit higher up the list of priorities than it is anyway. Not sure what the sacrificial lamb would be to allow this. Come down harder on companies insisting people still come to work in the office?
Jon Snow would've done a much better job at that speech to be fair. Could've gotten a snow machine and everything
This is what they said about schools a few days ago:
HSE Chief Clinical Officer Dr Colm Henry said there was a lot of anxiety when schools were reopening, but international evidence at the time suggested that communities were more likely to pose a risk to schools rather than the other way around.
This appears to have been borne out here too, with little evidence of onward transmission of Covid-19 in schools, and lower positivity rates in school communities than the general population.
Dr Henry said it appears widespread community transmission is a threat to schools but that schools are not a threat to communities.
Responding to a suggestion that schools could be a source of unexplained household outbreaks, Prof Nolan said that it was very unlikely.
"There's really no significant chance both from the statistics and public health investigation that there is a link between schools and that number of [unexplained] household outbreaks,"
Dr Glynn observed that while there has been an increase in the number of cases in school-aged children, the rate of increase in this group is lower than in the wider community.
This appears to have been borne out here too, with little evidence of onward transmission of Covid-19 in schools, and lower positivity rates in school communities than the general population.
Dr Henry said it appears widespread community transmission is a threat to schools but that schools are not a threat to communities.
Responding to a suggestion that schools could be a source of unexplained household outbreaks, Prof Nolan said that it was very unlikely.
"There's really no significant chance both from the statistics and public health investigation that there is a link between schools and that number of [unexplained] household outbreaks,"
Dr Glynn observed that while there has been an increase in the number of cases in school-aged children, the rate of increase in this group is lower than in the wider community.
So that's the reasoning behind it, I suppose.
I also want them to address the other elephant in the room, why are the airports not more stringent in checking people?
I mean they say we as an island can’t lock our borders but why can’t we make it harder for people to travel?
He wants to try standing in our school playground at pickup time
I don’t think the previous level 5 recommendation came with a time frame?
Mind you, the government made a big deal at the time about the problems of going into level 5 without a clear strategy for what happens if the “circuit breaker” doesn’t turn things round. So it’s a bit fecking rich to jump to level 5 now, while still no clearer on what the exit strategy looks like.
The previous one actually came with a recommendation of 4 weeks
Mentions a four week time period here anyway.
Tbf at this point it seems a lockdown was inevitable and it might be that a four week one would have screwed enough businesses that another two weeks ultimately won't make much difference anyway. I'm just hoping we can get through Christmas at a relatively low level.
Also, I think I would feel a lot better about this whole thing if they also introduced harsher punishments and clampdowns on the anti-mask protestor types. I am absolutely not above small, vindictive pleasures at this point.
Was it China that they sprayed protestors with a blue indelible dye, so they could be tracked down and arrested later? Or maybe it was Thailand? Now that’s the sort of human rights abuse I can get on board with. Anyone who has the outline of a mask stencilled on their smurf coloured face gets a lesser punishment.
Wonder what it's like to be a decision maker in times like this. You've got the usual stuff of having to figure out what the least worst option is, but in this case the options are particularly shit, while you have no opportunity to progress your political agenda and no real moments when you convince yourself you're making a useful contribution to pretty much anything.
Suppose it's not bad to get stacks of cash while the economy's getting a kicking.
Suppose it's not bad to get stacks of cash while the economy's getting a kicking.
Going back to Level 5 is a dose, but unfortunately, it's the right decision. I'm not especially bothered about Christmas as an event, but for my family it's a bigger thing. My dad has only seen our new child once in the three weeks since he was born and is now facing at least another month without seeing him. There are countless other people in our situation and many, many more, far worse off.
The idea, for example, that Governmental guidance could suggest that only some members of a family could come home for Christmas if the number of households allowed to socialise was limited and would be an incredibly difficult sell, so they need to get a hold of it before then (and obviously, more urgently, to halt the spread and risk to life) so that they can allow for some semblance of normality, at least in terms of travel, over the holidays.
The idea, for example, that Governmental guidance could suggest that only some members of a family could come home for Christmas if the number of households allowed to socialise was limited and would be an incredibly difficult sell, so they need to get a hold of it before then (and obviously, more urgently, to halt the spread and risk to life) so that they can allow for some semblance of normality, at least in terms of travel, over the holidays.
Honestly I think they should be out spraying the germ infested bastards in the street with antibacterial spray
My only worry about this lockdown is. Will GameStop be open for the PS5? 
There has been a lot of talk around teaching staff that I know, that they almost expect the announcement of a two-week shutdown on Thursday or Friday. The question then becomes do the schools stay open or do they work remotely in which case said teachers will then be using half term (which has nearly caused a few of my friends to quit) to prep online lessons instead of getting some well needed r&r.
I thought this was a really good article that brought to life some of the practical struggles a lot of major governments faced that seemed so inexplicable at the time. Why weren't France (and co.) carrying out mass testing even at the peak of the first wave? Not enough fecking cotton buds! (among other things)
in your thread about china, this is the underlying stuff. i think i posted the same thing there, you can have all the coercion and lack of rights that china has but it isn't nearly enough without the manpower and insutrial capcity and the ability to quickly commandeer them.
23 minutes long but well worth the watch - very informative about why various measures help stop the spread of infection in and epidemic or pandemic.
23 minutes long but well worth the watch - very informative about why various measures help stop the spread of infection in and epidemic or pandemic.
Yeah no doubt it's a huge part of their success, and not one that's replicable without that industrial muscle. You would expect some Western nations to address the shortages going forward but it still won't allow them to respond as aggressively.
I wonder why Germany didn't follow the paths of so many of its neighbours in terms of some of these basic pandemic preparedness things? Obviously they have a stronger industrial base in general, but they presumably made a conscious decision to still have the medical industrial capacity for these scenarios. I think someone from Germany in this thread mentioned that the country realistically has had far too many ICU beds based on historic requirements over the last two decades, and there was some political discussion about how those funds could be used elsewhere instead. Why did those critics lose the political argument in Germany but win it in France (and presumably the UK, Spain, Italy and elsewhere)?
I know you are joking but it is this kind of ageist thinking that allows governments to treat old people as expendable.
I'm in herefordshire and it really low here too
Agree. I have friends in their 80s who have great lives - they have lots of friends, they go on holiday several times a year, they volunteer, they just generally enjoy their time. They're valuable members of society who are loved.