Exactly.
Although I would suggest it sounds the same or worse in German.
Racism incident in PSG v Istanbul match
- Thread starter Theafonis
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But they weren't and it was easier to point him saying "the black one".
Do you also accept the fact there is a cultural difference between English speaking countries and Romania?
“The blacks” reducing them to just their colour for one. Secondly in some places is a fully loaded terms with many racist connotations.
Winner winner
This part right here:
Just pointing out that the English 'negro' is still used, even by esteemed organizations like the UNCF. In this case, it's certainly not condescending or insulting. And it's certainly comparable as its use is in reference to people.
Now, I'm not familiar with Romanian as a language so I don't know if there are other words they could have used. Maybe he should have said the bald guy instead but I'm having trouble seeing the racism in this. We're again transcribing English meaning onto foreign words because of how they look/sound.
I disagree, at best its inappropriate and disrespectful.
Well done to Istanbul for walking off. All eyes on Uefa
Assuming you're referring to my post, I edited it to correct.The state of this threadthese are terribly sensitive issues and conversations about them can do without the righteous indignation, the reactionism against any person who offers a alternate opinion or scenario, and the utter idiocy of making claims about the incident that make no sense. Eg he has his shirt number. Talking about ba being booked. I can only assume these people haven't even watched it.
Take a breath, treat eachother respectfully and converse like adults.
And the point still stands: you can identify people without referring to the colour of their skin. And should. Because, amazingly, a lot of black people don't like being referred to as "the black guy".
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It's amazing, but we all have names.
Something I'll quickly add is that the ref comes across really poorly for reaction the way he did. He should have dealt with a possible racial situation in a much better way and that's something FIFA/UEFA need to get right in the future if they are to decrease the volatility behind racial remarks/attacks of any kind.
The worst thing is that we will have to wait for the result, probably tomorrow, whether we are going through or not.
We don't know the full story yet of what really happened but if it's really what has been reported and if you think it's racism then get a life. A few languages is probably already on the list to be banned and soon we won't be able to even use the word "black".
It's amazing, but you don't have to know all the names of all the people and you have eyes and you can point people describing their appearance.
If I lived in Africa and needed to point to a white guy, yes, most definitely this is the term I would use.
Also if I needed to point to a french national team player.
Exactly.
"Who drank the last bit of coffee out if the office machine?
"The black one"
It's not about what I think. It's about what the person it's directed at thinks.
If we lose, we’re out. PSG have a better head to head against us
I agree with this.
The official should apologize for being insensitive to other languages / cultures and concede that he understands this can be construed as rqcism and that he didnt mean it like that, but there should be some room for realizing that in some languages the word negru simply means black.
You can say something inadvertently racist without being one if you admit to your misstake and dont do it again if you ask me.
I would honestly say yes, that's also a form of racism.
But I'm sure you know we should consider additional key contexts here. When "white" is being used, it's less used as a mocking, but rather, just a description of skin color. When "black" is used, not only it is a description of skin color, but even more so and it is universally known that it is often being used to downgrade people, mocking them by referring it to you know "something that is just not nice at all".... basically "white" is not really insulting (some people would find it insulting yes), while "black" is almost always, usually insulting.
If we only could stop labelling each other with skin colors... for god sake, skin color doesn't define us. There are so many variations. really... I mean even people with basic white colour can have reddish white, yellowish white or darken white, and even people with basic black color skins can have lighter brown or yellowish brown color. So what do we call those in between then? Geez. I never get this racist thing labelling people with skin color. Experienced it plenty myself towards me and others, and it stings alright. I never understand why they need to say that. Says a lot about themselves as a person I guess. Can't blame society since there are people who refuse to follow the common racist culture in the same society.
If we can only be more sensible and more civilized to use professions instead or maybe just use our clothes as a point of references (eg. the guy wearing red shirt, etc) if we don't know their names, gender or professions... that would be great.
Honestly, for a referee it does sound very inappropriate in French. And it does in Dutch too btw.
Hopefully both teams are docked points! Especially PSG!
Then what you're saying is that you don't actually want equality for all, but role reversal? Is that what I'm hearing?
‘Negro’ being derogatory in English depends on who you ask or speak to. Just because some “esteemed” organisations use it doesn't mean its not by the way. Quite a few “esteemed” organisations still have racist roots, policies, and outcomes for their staff In the UK
Just pointing that out, not pointing figures or anything
Regarding cultural difference, it's up to the Romanian chap working for FIFA in France to be aware of these issues. This was not a conversation in a Bucharest bar between locals, he's representing a global body on a huge stage.
I don't imagine that he had any malice in his use of words but when you're a ref for FIFA in the Champions League, it's borderline absurd to believe he's not aware of these issues.
This is why I ran it past my pal to check. Not that one guy's opinion is necessarily the decider but just to see if my instant reaction was totally off to him.
And it wasn't.
I just think we have to watch trying to find prejudice everywhere as it waters down the actual real problem and brings splinter groups who refuse to be told everything they say is wrong - as seen with the Millwall lot the other week.
Does the referee write down 'the black one' in his little book - they don't write numbers, so what does he write?
Again. Even if I agreed with your point (which I don't), Webo was not the only black man sitting on the Istanbul bench.
Yep, but there's me hoping we can get a 2-2 draw or something.
I think anyone stupid enough to use the term snowflake in a debate about racism is likely part of that crowd unfortunately.
However I'd love to be proved wrong...
It does right? It only hit me today that it was a very awkward thing to say in that context.
Every language actually have "racist words and expressions" as part of their culture.Even English languages no?
There are "good words" and there are "insulting bad words".
I think we all should improve our culture and by extension our languages all the time. It needs daily review.
Not everyone in the same culture will utter those disgusting racist words and expressions.
If we draw, we’re through, irrespective of PSG
You have no idea about the connotations, the context.... and you don’t speak Romanian, yet you write a passage about your take implying another man is racist. Well done sir, you just described the whole Woke generation and build up under the campaign that will probably have his life ruined by tomorrow morning.
You should also teach your kids the name of each color their eyes can see, would look a bit pathetic if they’re not able to name black, white or green in school in a few years. A person will always have a shade, but it does not say anything about said person - that we agree on. But he’s still black or white or perhaps Asian, I have a black dog, my sister has a white one. We humans are categorized for statistical and practical purposes, as with absolutely everything else in life to keep control over this planet. Black is literally an option to tick off on paperwork and documentation, like Asian, Hispanic or whatever... stop pretending it’s anything remotely similar to the N-word.
Yes but they're still doing the exact same thing - identifying someone by race.
If the ref had wandered over screaming "the IC3" would that have been any different?
The guy who posted it is from Germany apparently so English probably isn't his first language.
But we won't know whether we're first or second, but yeah, you're right. Forgot.
Presumably you would be telling Pierre Webo, the man accusing the official of racism, to “get a life”. If so, wow.
Some people think everything is racist against them. If they hear the word starting with n, even though it's in different language and means no malicious intent at all, they will still cry it's racism. That's how it is.
If we lose we are third.