Where was the fourth official from? I live in the UK which is pretty multicultural.
Racism incident in PSG v Istanbul match
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
That I don't know. But most likely from somewhere where 90 percent of the population has the same colour skin. Black people do it, Chinese people do it... Heck went to China and I was refereed to by what they think my race was constantly. They don't know any better. Probably haven't seen someone like me in real life before.
Same old thing. He was speaking in a non-English language where the word was not considered a racist slur, but just meant black.
To be honest that’s similar to what I said to my mate - that the fourth official may not know better for some reason.
All I can say is that in my place of work it would be very strange to differentiate a client/customer by using the colour of their skin as a descriptor. Inappropriate even.
I was in Manchester for a stag about 3 years ago, we were in a bar for food and I was refereed to as the "tall paddy", his shit makes me laugh. As long as its not derogatory I don't see the problem. I have been called much worse in England, even though I identify as Northern Irish / British.
Romania. All of the refs were from Romania. That was the cause of the incident, since he referred to Webo as "black" in Romanian, and in Romanian that's "negru"... Yeah, you might see what caused the fuss.
Thanks for the responses
"I don't see colour"
"Oh yeah that old line..."
"No I don't see colour, I'm literally colourblind."
Because if Istanbul are disqualified, then all of their results are voided. So the rest of us finish on 6 points each, and Leipzig go out on goal difference.
This remains a possibility, right?
I think there is a difference between what is considered racist in the anglo- american world and other parts of the world.
So what is seen as racist in the UK would be seen as totally ok in eastern europe or east asia.
I'd even say people in the UK and US are in general more sensitive (I'm not saying it's good or bad, but just as a fact) to language and communication. For example in asia fatshaming or calling someone ugly would be generally accepted.
Also referring to a person's skin colour or trait is kind of common if this trait or colour sticks out.
So I've played football with a bunch of east asians where we'd obviously refer to the white guy as "white guy" or "farang" and to the indian guy as the "indian one".
Also I played with one black guy in a team of whites and the opposing team would say "mark the asian" or "mark the black one" because it's easy to understand.
Now given the history of racism and unfair treatment obviously we should all be more careful to use words such as black guy due to its negative connotations. (Same is in germany actually for the word german guy, if a Turkish-German says "those germans" it also sounds with a little bad vibe)
The other thing is that the latin word for black simply is how it is and a lot of languages have their roots in latin. So obviously the ref could be more careful to not refer to someone using the skincolour and also think ahead that the word negru might be misunderstood. But I guess he didnt think much and it's in my eyes not provrn racism but more of a not smart and sensitive enough. (But obviously he could be also racist and I wouldnt be surprised if he privately has racist thoughts as lot of people do have these thoughts. But it's just not proven with what he said.
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Why would they be disqualified though? At worse they will forfeit this game. Surely not the entire tournament.
Seems about as probable as Trump winning the election.
12 years ago? FFS.
He should have won 2, he was robbed
I dont know what to make of it, as I dont understand Romanian.
But I've seen people here and on Twitter saying different things.
IF he said « The one wearing black » or something simular this is whole thing is quite disturbing. Webo was about to be shown the red card and quickly changed his focus on the 4th official. He face is all over Twitter now as a racist.
This is a dangerous setting and I hope that IF he said something that wasnt racist he will get an appology. I will bet though that UEFA will throw him under the bus no matter what.
But I've seen people here and on Twitter saying different things.
IF he said « The one wearing black » or something simular this is whole thing is quite disturbing. Webo was about to be shown the red card and quickly changed his focus on the 4th official. He face is all over Twitter now as a racist.
This is a dangerous setting and I hope that IF he said something that wasnt racist he will get an appology. I will bet though that UEFA will throw him under the bus no matter what.
I think the chances of this happening are practically zero so I don't why I'm inclined to reply but wouldn't it be head to head that we'd be through on rather than GD? I think that's the first tie-breaker in CL groups. PSG won their H2H's against both us and Leipzig, we won ours over Leipzig.
Doesn’t absolve him from being abjectly ignorant.
Who will be United's Giuliani?
No excuse here, the Official would clearly have known his name but still referred to him by his skin colour. Well done to both teams, it's unacceptable.
Am i missing something, how is he ignorant?
The way I see it, they are not guaranteed to show up tomorrow to play the remainder of the game. So maybe disqualified?
3 way tie is goal difference I think.
I also acknowledge the unlikelihood of this, and want to point out I'm not hoping for this, we dont deserve to progress. My interest is more a morbid curiosity with the rules.
Yeh I can understand. I get referred to my "perceived race" a lot. Its very annoying. But people here don't know better. It's just how they call to people. No different than calling someone shorty or tall man
As an official at that level, or any level really, you simply can’t use language that approaches potential racism.
OK.... I just honestly never realised the jackets were green till you mentioned it. Thought it was some kind of optical thing where my eyes had to get adjusted to it.
if they were DQ'd maybe you're right
however there's no chance of that happening, and thankfully so that would be bloody awful
How is calling someone black, racist? I may sound thick here, but I don't mean to be.
Oh yeah I believe you, I was just taking the opportunity to post a shit joke
1. Poor idea by the ref to use race as a descriptor. Also, unclear whether there was preposition "in" as in "in black".
2. Since that was said in Romanian it happens that the word sounds similar to an inflammatory term in English.
Not racist but ref should have handled the situation better.
I think however that jumping on the "it's racism" train doesn't help the cause. The cause being getting rid of true racism.
2. Since that was said in Romanian it happens that the word sounds similar to an inflammatory term in English.
Not racist but ref should have handled the situation better.
I think however that jumping on the "it's racism" train doesn't help the cause. The cause being getting rid of true racism.
It's still a tactless way to refer to someone, especially in a professional setting. Shouldn't get away with it just because it's done a lot in Romania. It was probably done a lot here once too.
No worries. To me, the fact that calling someone by their skin color can be construed as racist means that you can’t use such language in certain situations. Being a professional sports official would decidedly be a position where such vernacular simply cannot be used.
If what’s being reported is correct, then it doesn’t appear to be racist. Seems like a misunderstanding over the word in Romanian. Hope that the linesman is ok here (if what’s being reported is correct) - would hate to see him lose his job over this and there is very likely to be social media pressure on uefa regardless to sack him.
I’m guessing that most UEFA officials must get some kind of training on this stuff surely (I.e. what is and isn’t appropriate language whilst working)?
As a professional and a match official he would rightly be punished. What I'm curious though is whether or not the match could've been salvaged if he'd just owned up and apologized.
I think this is going a step to far, You can describe people as white, blonde hair, ginger hair, dark hair, tall, short, but call someone black? Were going to far here, as long as its not derogatory I don't see the problem. Should he have said "the not Caucasian" guy? Again, racism is being derogatory, being factful isn't.
Of course there’s no place for racism and it should be punished heavily. Having said that, deciding what is and isn’t a racial slur in a language you’re not fluent in opens up a massive can of worms.
I dunno man, this seems like a bit of a grey (no pun intended) area for me.
They're saying he was referring to the clothing he was wearing?
On the other hand, I am assuming a lot of languages, such as Spanish and Romanian describe black almost identically similar to the english N word. To the untrained ear, it sounds the same.
Was the Romanian/Spanish languages interpretation of black taken from the English racist word? If so...this opens up a whole can of worms on the languages themselves...?
They're saying he was referring to the clothing he was wearing?
On the other hand, I am assuming a lot of languages, such as Spanish and Romanian describe black almost identically similar to the english N word. To the untrained ear, it sounds the same.
Was the Romanian/Spanish languages interpretation of black taken from the English racist word? If so...this opens up a whole can of worms on the languages themselves...?
I said earlier he needs to be fired, but a lengthy ban at the very least. Multiple years.