The irony being that he gets stick because he’s English.
Maguire wasn't at fault for the goal
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Catalogue of errors, McT doesn't follow runner, Lindelof moves to cover him, Maguire leaves to cover Lindelof, his man scores. A the start of their move we are in good shape, but once again not following runners is our achilles heel. McT follows their runner and Maguire and Lindelof are in decent shape. It happens time and time again with us and stresses how important we get a quality defensive mid in. Saying that you have top class keepers in place to bail you out in such scenarios
Are we watching the same video? Maguire is absolutely nowhere near it after the deflection takes it out of his path.
If you wanted to be very harsh and wonder if he throws himself at the ball as if his life depended on it, he may have been able to divert the ball towards our goal and score an OG. But I'm convinced he can't cut out that cross from the position he found himself in trying to mark his man.
This.
One would think. But DDG isn't called on very often, and then this sort of thing happens.
There’s a lot of blame to go around, but if the question is whether Maguire should and could have cleared the ball and thus the danger, there is only one answer.
Yes.
Yes.
What we'd all love is to have the security of a booming 'Keepers!' every time the ball came and DDG marshalling his area. I have noticed with no crowd noise how quiet we are as a team - I hear McT with a lot of 'come on boys' and 'we go' type chat and Bruno is vocal but I don't really hear too many others consistently. To compound it Carrick stood on the edge of the technical area and said nothing whilst all of the RBL staff were screaming their heads off actively coaching the team in the first half. Henderson is needed to fix that in my opinion.
How could anyone possibly fault Maguire for that goal? That's crazy talk.
For me, it was on Mctominay and to a lesser extent Pogba for failing to track the runner from midfield who inteligently exploited the gap left by AWB (correctly went to close down the winger) and Lindelof who was forced to close down the runner, leaving Maguire with 2 attackers to mark but only one pair of legs. He ended up in no-mans land through no fault of his own.
DDG should also be claiming the ball if it gets anywhere near the six-yard box. Telles could have reacted a bit quicker when he noticed Lindelof and Maguire had been pulled out of position too.
For me, it was on Mctominay and to a lesser extent Pogba for failing to track the runner from midfield who inteligently exploited the gap left by AWB (correctly went to close down the winger) and Lindelof who was forced to close down the runner, leaving Maguire with 2 attackers to mark but only one pair of legs. He ended up in no-mans land through no fault of his own.
DDG should also be claiming the ball if it gets anywhere near the six-yard box. Telles could have reacted a bit quicker when he noticed Lindelof and Maguire had been pulled out of position too.
Not on the caf, nor with the ex-utd pundits.
Aye. What Maguire does is fine if the ball's running out of play, not when there's somebody running in behind him. He can clear it and chooses not to, mostly because he's worried about slicing it into his own net.
Maguire could smashed it out.
But he left it for De Gea because he expects De Gea to be there because he should have been there.
Both at fault. Dr Gea more so.
Just shocking defending all round
But he left it for De Gea because he expects De Gea to be there because he should have been there.
Both at fault. Dr Gea more so.
Just shocking defending all round
Granted, I've watched the video once but to me it looked like Maguire got caught by the deflection? Perhaps I need go replay it a couple of more times...
Maguire PR and defence force are on a next level
You obviously never saw the thread after his Greek episode then, did you.
Depends if DDG gives a shout or not, it looks like he does judging by Maguires actions and DDG positioning, but if he didn't than Maguire should deal with it.
The more I see that goal the more I cant help but wonder why there wasnt a VAR check for handball from the deflection, it probably isn't but I feel there should of been a check at the very least.
The more I see that goal the more I cant help but wonder why there wasnt a VAR check for handball from the deflection, it probably isn't but I feel there should of been a check at the very least.
That won't ever happen with Maguire because he isn't vocal enough to the officials about decisions
What utter nonsense.
The first person should ALWAYS clear the ball inside the penalty box and not take chances. CLEAR THE FECKING BALL FFS!
The first person should ALWAYS clear the ball inside the penalty box and not take chances. CLEAR THE FECKING BALL FFS!
Sorry but I dont agree, he is at fault because he should be stepping across to Blake Bortles the cnut out of play as far up the field as possible. DDG also should be anticipating. They share blame and they are the two important pieces of our defence. Stop trying to shift blame and demand they accept responsibility for shit defending.
How is Maguire not at fault here? You clear the ball, and ask questions later. It's passive, weak defending from him yet again. He has history of doing this. The fact that he's our captain, just exposes how rudderless we are.
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The only place hes clearing it is out for a corner, or he could take possession and try and work it out from the back somewhat riskely, we are 2-0 down chasing the game, we need possession of the ball to launch attacks, if the keeper makes the shout to claim the ball and actually takes it than we have possession again and it is the better option in the game situation, if we are not chasing the game the simply getting rid is probably the right option.
Either De Gea shouts to claim it and fecks it up or doesn't shout to claim it and maguire fecks it up by not clearing it.
Either way an absolute shambles of a goal to concede.
If the keeper shouts then leave it but if the keeper hasn't then either take control of the ball and pass it to another player or if under pressure then clear it out regardless if its a corner or a throw in. A corner is better than conceding a goal.
OK I’ve spelt it out in Caf logic for people who aren’t blaming Maguire
- Lindelof gives the ball away twice under no real pressure
- AWB fails to stop the cross
- Maguire has two CFs to mark and covers the near post run but the ball takes a deflection, eventually landing on the 6yrd line
- Our GK, who has failed to move from his line in the time it has taken for the ball to travel 20yrds comes out, faces away from the ball and turns his body sideways, fearing a collision with the might of Justin Kluivert
Conclusion - it’s Maguire’s fault because he cost £80m
- Lindelof gives the ball away twice under no real pressure
- AWB fails to stop the cross
- Maguire has two CFs to mark and covers the near post run but the ball takes a deflection, eventually landing on the 6yrd line
- Our GK, who has failed to move from his line in the time it has taken for the ball to travel 20yrds comes out, faces away from the ball and turns his body sideways, fearing a collision with the might of Justin Kluivert
Conclusion - it’s Maguire’s fault because he cost £80m
Spot on!
I don't think you can specifically blame Maguire for it from a defensive point of view. He's covered the danger and is within his right to expect De Gea and WIlliams to do the same. The problem is all of our defence is so passive that none of them ever seem to take command of any situation. Whenever teams get near our goal we defend like a bunch of scared mice.
Maguire is meant to be the captain so should be the one encouraging the others to be more commanding and leading by example, but then I'm not sure on what basis we made him captain other than because he cost lots of money. Fernandes or Rashford are the only players in our team who exhibit any captaincy material at all. So that's not on Maguire really it's on Ole.
Can't remember who on here said it but someone put it really well when they said players like Van Dijk have a presence about them. They are always in control of the situation, and we have the opposite. We have a goalkeeper who only ever seems to come off his line when he's supposed to be staying on it to save a penalty, a centreback in Lindelof who is literally terrified of defending, and another in Maguire who just looks like he's catching up with what's going on all the time. Shaw is our only defender who attempts to take any command, and he is often completely brainless, or unfit, and dies after an hour of every game.
Problem is this is all kind of on Ole as well since he wont do anything about it. Henderson should be getting a chance by now. He should have from the start of the season. We shouldn't be getting caught out from overloads at the far post on both sides of the pitch when we have five fecking defenders AND Matic who also seems to like standing around in the defence, regardless of passiveness every possible opposition player should be fecking marked. I know this isn't specific to the third goal but how many bloody times in the first half.
Maguire is meant to be the captain so should be the one encouraging the others to be more commanding and leading by example, but then I'm not sure on what basis we made him captain other than because he cost lots of money. Fernandes or Rashford are the only players in our team who exhibit any captaincy material at all. So that's not on Maguire really it's on Ole.
Can't remember who on here said it but someone put it really well when they said players like Van Dijk have a presence about them. They are always in control of the situation, and we have the opposite. We have a goalkeeper who only ever seems to come off his line when he's supposed to be staying on it to save a penalty, a centreback in Lindelof who is literally terrified of defending, and another in Maguire who just looks like he's catching up with what's going on all the time. Shaw is our only defender who attempts to take any command, and he is often completely brainless, or unfit, and dies after an hour of every game.
Problem is this is all kind of on Ole as well since he wont do anything about it. Henderson should be getting a chance by now. He should have from the start of the season. We shouldn't be getting caught out from overloads at the far post on both sides of the pitch when we have five fecking defenders AND Matic who also seems to like standing around in the defence, regardless of passiveness every possible opposition player should be fecking marked. I know this isn't specific to the third goal but how many bloody times in the first half.
I see you've ignored the decisive factor, that after the deflection, Maguire chose to put on the brakes, deciding to leave it for DDG instead. He could have got to that ball and cleared it if he wanted to.
Him after the deflection:
And this is him after putting on the brakes:
That doesn't mean the other players didn't make mistakes before him, but If Maguire is decisive like he should be and clears the ball, then De Gea's mistake doesn't happen. The goal doesn't happen.
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The only way Maguire gets to that ball is if a) activates his gogo gadget legs ability, or b) he makes a desperate lunge in an attempt to reach it, potentially diverting the ball into his own net. Both options are implausible given the circumstances.I see you've ignored the decisive factor, that after the deflection, Maguire chose to put on the brakes, deciding to leave it for DDG instead. He could have got to that ball and cleared it if he wanted to.
Him after the deflection:
And this is him after putting on the brakes:
That doesn't mean the other players didn't make mistakes before him, but If Maguire is decisive like he should be and clears the ball, then De Gea's mistake doesn't happen. The goal doesn't happen.
Pogba should have tracked the runner rather than get caught ball watching, which in turn prevents Lindelof from getting pulled out of position and leaving Maguire alone to mark two players.
Also, DDG is shockingly passive throughout the entire attack, and Telles hasn't got a clue what he's doing either.
Telles may have is he was on the pitch at the time. Williams and De Gea were day dreaming or ball watching.
In my view it's very easy to blame Maguire or De Gea. They are the last in a sequnece of poor mistakes. There are at least 3 before it gets to Maguire and at least 4 players are at fault before it gets to De Gea.
The goals starts with Lindelof trying to pass to Pogba and messes it up. Pogba then fails to try to win the ball back or close down. AWB throws a half arsed leg out to stop the cross.
Deflection or not Maguire should be booting that to touch if he doesn't get a shout from De Gea. That's bog standard defending at any level.
Williams is ball watching ans fails to track the run, leaving Kluivert free.
De Gea is completely reactionary and stuck to his line and really should be diving down on that ball. He should be claiming that ball in the 6 yard box no questions asked.
My mistake, Williams was the culprit at leftback.
You're missing out one hugely influential action in Mctominay or Pogba's reluctance/ignorance to track the runner from midfield, which subsequently forces Lindelof into a risk-assessment-type situation; stay with his man or deal with the more imminent threat of picking up the untracked runner, which in turn leaves Maguire dead in the water with two men to mark. He went with the latter, which is perfectly natural under those circumstances.
Watch the clip again and you'll see what I mean re: Mctominay and Pogba.
Dumb (Williams), Dumber (De Gea), Dumbest (Maguire)
If Maguire slides to hook the ball away but the ball still goes passed his outstretched foot, then the blame goes straight to DDG. The fact he gestures with his outstretched arm that I’m letting this go by to my keeper and he will sweep up, is worrying. To make it worse for Maguire, when it does go passed him, the goalkeepers attempt to keep it out the net is embarrassing.
If Maguire slides to hook the ball away but the ball still goes passed his outstretched foot, then the blame goes straight to DDG. The fact he gestures with his outstretched arm that I’m letting this go by to my keeper and he will sweep up, is worrying. To make it worse for Maguire, when it does go passed him, the goalkeepers attempt to keep it out the net is embarrassing.
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Can see what you mean about Pogba and Lindelof.
It's a shambolic goal from start to finish. I just genuinely don't see how anyone can lay the blame squarely on Maguire or De Gea.
Maguire should boot it out and De Gea should claim it but what came before them was just as bad and those players are equally culpable.
I don’t know how many of you guys play football but if a ball takes a deflection like that it’s really hard to adjust yourself quickly enough to clear it, I don’t think he intentionally leaves it for the keeper he just couldn’t get it.
I'd usually agree, but I really think there's something to be said for not leaving anything up to chance, especially playing in this Utd team. He's meant to be the captain.
Put yourself in his shoes, you're seeing mistakes compounded in front of your eyes, and now you've got the chance to deal with it, as the captain what would you do? If he's got Neuer or Lahm behind him, fine you can take risks like that, but playing with De Gea who he knows is scared to come of his line, and he knows he has an out of his depth Williams behind, I strongly believe he has got to be decisive in situations like that.
I don't think I agree that his only option is to take a desperate lunge at the ball, as the deflection took the sting out of the cross, but even if that was true, I would still rather do that, than take the passive way out.
I definitely agree that if the others had done their jobs properly beforehand, then it doesn't get to him to begin with, so they all share the blame collectively though.
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General
Is it only one person that is at fault or plenty?
= I say it's the latter.
Maguire
Is Maguire part of it?
= Yes
Is he the worst?
= No
Is the ball reachable for Maguire to clear it?
= Yes
Did Mag clear it?
= No
Should he let the ball in?
= No, any good defenders will always clear the ball away every time, taking zero risks is always the better option.
Others
Who else at fault?
= Lindelof, De Gea, AWB, Williams, McT and the coaches. Also the fans for not being there
Is it only one person that is at fault or plenty?
= I say it's the latter.
Maguire
Is Maguire part of it?
= Yes
Is he the worst?
= No
Is the ball reachable for Maguire to clear it?
= Yes
Did Mag clear it?
= No
Should he let the ball in?
= No, any good defenders will always clear the ball away every time, taking zero risks is always the better option.
Others
Who else at fault?
= Lindelof, De Gea, AWB, Williams, McT and the coaches. Also the fans for not being there
Lindelof literally passed the ball to them inside his own box. He started the whole feck up
Slow reaction from Maguire. And yes, AWB wins the ball and Lindelof plays a poor loose pass inside his own box that Angelino recovers, which starts the move for the cross
Vvd would have dealt with it not allowing the opportunity for the attacker to sneak in between himself and the keeper
There's always a scramble to blame someone other than Maguire. Even if others were at fault in the phase of play, he too played his part.
To say he wasn't at fault is wrong, especially when he carries the most defensive responsibility by being captain.
To say he wasn't at fault is wrong, especially when he carries the most defensive responsibility by being captain.
So far Lindelof , McTom , Williams , Maguire , Ole and DDG have been blamed.
You are literally showing here that the ball is out of his reach - probably why he puts the brakes on. The desire to blame Maguire for this goal is nuts.I see you've ignored the decisive factor, that after the deflection, Maguire chose to put on the brakes, deciding to leave it for DDG instead. He could have got to that ball and cleared it if he wanted to.
Him after the deflection:
And this is him after putting on the brakes:
That doesn't mean the other players didn't make mistakes before him, but If Maguire is decisive like he should be and clears the ball, then De Gea's mistake doesn't happen. The goal doesn't happen.
Don't forget Pogba and Donny. Heck even Telles has been mentioned.