It's pretty criminal Pogba starts over him. I don't see what Pogba offers in the box to box role that VDB can't offer. The latter is better at pressing, he can drift into more clever positions, I don't think there's much between them by way of tackling or chemistry with their peers.
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Yeah, we're in that rare and beautiful position where pretty much everyone, bar Bruno, knows that if they don't perform, there's a proper alternative waiting to take their place. It's had a transformative effect on Pogba. Donny will just have to step up and make the most of the chances he does get.
Whatever VDB does, he will not displace Bruno from the starting XI for as long as Bruno is fit. As such, the best bet for VDB would be to show versatility and be able to play different roles - then he may get (rare) matches when Bruno is rested plus (more often) matches when other players are rested. A “John O’Shea” role in midfield, if you would
Yeah for sure a stat like dribbled past/attempts would be more telling. This is simply out of context.Probably just let's people run off him so it's not captured by the stats in fairness
Anyway, point is that a midfield of Fred VDB and Bruno would be really weak to the counter
Why would Fred VDB midfield be weaker against counters? They would be losing all aerial duels but I don't see any issues with counters.
Pogba is leaving next summer. He will get much more minutes next season.
I think so to. With Pogba who don't know what he want to do, van der Beek can use this season to adapt to our tactics and next year he will be getting lot more playing time. He can play in lot of positions and systems and is good player to have. He will still get time this year but people must realise that with our form and our players producing good football it is hard to break in to the first 11. Nothing personal against him. Team must go first.
When is his work permit coming through?
Fred had a similar trajectory right? Didn't play but now is a starter. VDB will get his chances.
Or a very mobile one against another mobile team.
I thought at first he was this versatile midfielder who could slot easily for any of our 1st choices but he has yet to make a real impact in any game so far. Many still have this wrong impression of him that doesn't match at all with reality.
The evidence from what we've seen is that the club paid 35m for a player who isn't any better than any of our squad options.
The evidence from what we've seen is that the club paid 35m for a player who isn't any better than any of our squad options.
Yeah, same here.
I feel when he gets a consistent run in that position, he'll be able to show his true worth.
Expect he will start both cup games, still think he was bought to replace pogba in squad just done in advance
I feel like if he wants to play more at no.10 he needs to take much more responsibility with the ball and not be afraid to shoot. He loves stupid little intricate dummies and passes in the box when he's in himself. We're not Arsenal and that stuff won't cut it.
But I do feel like he could contribute deeper in midfield, he's fantastic at not getting caught on the ball but is perhaps a bit lightweight in there at the moment. Maybe we need to be clearer in what we want from him, he's good enough to be a starting player for us if we can find the right role for him IMO.
But I do feel like he could contribute deeper in midfield, he's fantastic at not getting caught on the ball but is perhaps a bit lightweight in there at the moment. Maybe we need to be clearer in what we want from him, he's good enough to be a starting player for us if we can find the right role for him IMO.
He’s as shite as ever mate
Yeah this, the overreaction to him not playing has been a bit weird. It's obvious he wasn't brought in to be first choice.
Yeah, I'd agree with that. He has the work rate that Pogab doesn't have and while he may not have the range of passing, he's certainly quicker on the ball and will keep things moving and he's way more press resistant. He's more than capable of playing that role.
Whether its as a 10 or as an 8, to get more games he has to be more brave and take more risks. Its pretty simple. He's been far too cautious since he joined, and while he's shown his potential with his technical ability, passing range and movement, he plays it safe too often. Its why he isn't used when we're chasing a goal. I'm sure he'll get there, but he'll definitely need to become more of a risk taker.
I didn't see much in passing range from Pogba. He hit 2 interesting chipped passes, one was over hit and one found Rashford but it wasn't exactly setting him through on goal.
It's not criminal. Pogba is far better than Donny
I wasn't speaking specifically of that game last night, but more generally. He does have it in his locker. Again, I would much prefer Donny in that role.
Yeah me too. I agree he has that moment in him but he's no Bruno by way of the frequency he finds players. I think it's just not worth playing him in a box to box when Donny can perform adequately or better.
It is, and he isn't.
Yeah agreed.
Better at what? Heading, and probably long range passing. At most other aspects of midfielder role he's on similar level, and in some Donny has an advantage.
Considering one of them is new to the team, and second is on his way out, it's bizarre we're still using Pogba the way we do.
Wasn't he though? Why the hell would he want to go to a club where his minutes would be really limited after 200+ senior football matches including a CL semi-final and an EL final. I'm fairly certain that he was promised far more minutes than what he's got so far.
Not worried for VDB. Ole likely wants to match him easily and give him a soft start. At the same time I think he is part of Ole’s future plan; at some point assessed to be a key player
Many players from smaller leagues needs time to get used to PL. I’ve hear many say that the transition is a shock. Ole has possibly seen that VDB needs time to adapt; isn’t 100% ready yet. After all PL is something different and a big step up from Eredivisie.
When he gets minutes it’s a good strategy to play safe and try to find his “rhythm” in the beginning.
VDB was a good signing despite of his current playtime. The downside is very low, and I think he will grow and take many steps in the future. It’s important to not rush! He has many many years left.
Many players from smaller leagues needs time to get used to PL. I’ve hear many say that the transition is a shock. Ole has possibly seen that VDB needs time to adapt; isn’t 100% ready yet. After all PL is something different and a big step up from Eredivisie.
When he gets minutes it’s a good strategy to play safe and try to find his “rhythm” in the beginning.
VDB was a good signing despite of his current playtime. The downside is very low, and I think he will grow and take many steps in the future. It’s important to not rush! He has many many years left.
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This argument does not make sense. Why not play the new guy then instead of the gone one?
The whole situation is just so weird. He could become the first player who has been fit all the time, but never played and has been labeled as flop.
Agreed.
Did we have a pre-season?
We didnt did we? (I ask because I have a poor memory)
VDB seems like someone who needs pre-season to settle in at the club and feel the tempo of the players around him, the style of football of the league and how the football is played.
I do kind of see the 'he isnt the Ole' type player thing because he isnt an individual qualities strike out player - but to me at the same time Ole has become more tactically flexible than I thought and I can see why he would want to buy someone like Van De Beek and have the A* quality version of this systematic intelligent player that makes great runs and come up with some important goals for his team like he did for Ajax in the CL.
I think Ole can make that happen with VDB with a pre-season, maybe.
We didnt did we? (I ask because I have a poor memory)
VDB seems like someone who needs pre-season to settle in at the club and feel the tempo of the players around him, the style of football of the league and how the football is played.
I do kind of see the 'he isnt the Ole' type player thing because he isnt an individual qualities strike out player - but to me at the same time Ole has become more tactically flexible than I thought and I can see why he would want to buy someone like Van De Beek and have the A* quality version of this systematic intelligent player that makes great runs and come up with some important goals for his team like he did for Ajax in the CL.
I think Ole can make that happen with VDB with a pre-season, maybe.
I'm sure he'll show much more with time, but, other than being tidy, he's done feck all since he arrived so I'm not sure why anyone's clamouring for him to start.
Hes been bang average to irrelavent when hes played
Don't think any of the team selection can be considered criminal whilst we're on a 9 game unbeaten run. What you've done here is pointed out 2 things that VDB is better at and ignored any midfield attributes that Pogba is better at.
He's vindicated on the results of course, but theres nothing to suggest we would have had worse results with VDB - Pogba wasn't exactly standout in any of them with the exception of that screamer against Sheffield.
Regarding the bold point - no, I haven't. You can continue the list if you want.
Surprising that he hasn't got any game time during the busy festive period. Fully expect him to start at Villa or City.
He has played as much as Mason Greenwood, and Pogba is still our player.
VDB needs a run of games in the team in one position. This is a guy Real Madrid thought good enough to take Kroos or Modric spot in the starting XI.
Frankly if Pogba wont sign an extension to his contract and his agent is trying to get him out of Utd then why play Pogba? Why not use VDB instead? Could it he that Ole never wanted VDB and like Lampard at Chelsea with Havertz he is stuck with him?
Frankly if Pogba wont sign an extension to his contract and his agent is trying to get him out of Utd then why play Pogba? Why not use VDB instead? Could it he that Ole never wanted VDB and like Lampard at Chelsea with Havertz he is stuck with him?
VDB may yet have a role to play in this team although looking at him one can't help but wonder what his strengths are other than effectively recycling the ball in the midfield. He isn't a ball carrier or a visionary passer, nor is he a defensive shield type. Its an interesting buy from Ole.
People shouldn't be in a hurry. He will get game time. Afterall Pogba is likely leaving so a spot will open up. I don't see the merit of not playing pogba because he is leaving. It should be purely based on who can influence the specific match more and I think Pogba is a bigger game changer at present. Just look at how Fred grew in the team. If there is a great player in there it will come out eventually just be patient guys Donny's time will come.
Ok, well Pogba is physically stronger, more of an aerial presence, better at carrying the ball. Definitely a case to suggest his long range shooting and long distance passing range is at a higher level too. All pretty important attributes for a deep lying midfielder. I'm not pro Pogba or anti VDB but suggesting that VDB is by far the better player and playing Pogba instead is somehow criminal just seems pretty blinkered.
So this is it, the set up shouldn't be Matic + then another deep lying midfielder. We came alive when Pogba decided to get about more and venture forward and back around the 70-80 minute mark.
Pogba certainly has a better aerial presence, I don't think he's better at carrying the ball anymore. I don't see any driving runs that I wouldn't expect from VDB. Long distance passing is good but again in the past fixtures I haven't seen him spray them around in a fashion that warrants his selection.
Meanwhile I think VDB is a more nippy player who can cover more space, he is more hard working and has a better press. He's also better at tight areas and smarter in picking up clever positions. I would expect us to look more dynamic with him in the team than a combination of both Matic + Pogba (who were generally terribly static in the middle).
Ok, but as you've said the results justify the selection. If we were in Arsenal's position maybe you'd have a point but we're three points off the top with a game in hand. On that evidence you'd have to say the selection has been excellent and certainly not criminal. It's easy to say "we would've done just as well if DVB was playing" but there's no evidence to back that opinion up.
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