[sglowrider]

He's not a risky taker. Ole is looking for a risky taker type of player. If he doesn't develop that habit from being safe to risky taker, I can't see his future in here. He has to develop it. Pity, he actually has the work ethic but on the ball, his mentality is not Man United.

He needs another season and especially a pre-season before we can come to any definitive conclusion. There have been way too many cases of United legends or good players pre-maturely written off.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

He needs another season and especially a pre-season before we can come to any definitive conclusion. There have been way too many cases of United legends or good players pre-maturely written off.

The main reason why we signed him is because he offers goals from midfield. The problem is that he won’t play if he keeps the same attitude as being safe passer. I’m not sure how hard it is to develop from being safe passer to risky passer/progressive passer but if it’s an impossible thing then he might not make it if he stays being safe/tidy.

If he can develop it then he will start playing more.

 

[Adam-Utd]

He's a really good footballer, but has just taken a while to adapt to the English (or more specifically United's) way of playing.

We play a high tempo style which requires being able to run, a lot. Most passes are long and forwards, you can see that isn't how he's been taught and not instinctive for him.

I do think though the last few cameos he had, he's looked fitter/sharper and a bit more confident within himself. Grabbing that assist would have made him feel 100x lighter no doubt.

 

[united_99]

Imagine if he doesn’t even play tomorrow (which is very much possible).

 

[pierrethesnack]

Imagine if he doesn’t even play tomorrow (which is very much possible).

If he doesn't play it could also just mean that he's been somewhat written off this season, and Ole banking on a good preseason improving him, but yeah it would be slightly odd if he doesn't get at least 20 minutes in this game.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Imagine if he doesn’t even play tomorrow (which is very much possible).

I doubt he'd start, but surely if we're still cruising with a 2+ goal advantage he HAS to come on at like 60?

 

[Bebestation]

Considering how little we have seen of Matic this year - does anyone think our lack of VDB is due to not having a outright CDM.

VDB seems to have this really good ability for short simple passes deeper in the pitch; almost like he is a cheaper version of Xavi but we have not really had anyone to play next to him.

Ole tried it our with Fred against that Turkish team and maybe he thought we were good attacking wise but not stable enough defensively.

 

[Chicharito_]

Considering how little we have seen of Matic this year - does anyone think our lack of VDB is due to not having a outright CDM.

VDB seems to have this really good ability for short simple passes deeper in the pitch; almost like he is a cheaper version of Xavi but we have not really had anyone to play next to him.

Ole tried it our with Fred against that Turkish team and maybe he thought we were good attacking wise but not stable enough defensively.

The reason why Donny doesn't play is very simple, he has 2 world class players as his direct competition in Pogba and Bruno. I can't really ever see him getting significant game time if Paul extends his contract, this summer will be an interesting one for Donny imo.

 

[romufc]

Considering how little we have seen of Matic this year - does anyone think our lack of VDB is due to not having a outright CDM.

VDB seems to have this really good ability for short simple passes deeper in the pitch; almost like he is a cheaper version of Xavi but we have not really had anyone to play next to him.

Ole tried it our with Fred against that Turkish team and maybe he thought we were good attacking wise but not stable enough defensively.

I think the lack of CDM plays a big part in this. Fred/ Mctominay are not trusted on their own, they are not good enough.

I like the point of the Turkish team example because everyone I have seen posts how good we were in that game but we weren't any good defensively.

They kept getting chance after chance and I do not think Ole wants to go into games you attack we attack, he wants our team to have a solid base.

 

[Sunny Jim]

The thread title should be changed. Mods shoild replace "Performances" to "Presence"

 

[CM]

Imagine if he doesn’t even play tomorrow (which is very much possible).

He should start really, same for Amad. This is as close to a dead rubber as it gets for us but as you say both will likely sit on the bench.

 

[Shane88]

The thread title should be changed. Mods shoild replace "Performances" to "Presence"

Donny van de Beek 2020-2021 Existence(?)

 

[Bebestation]

I think the lack of CDM plays a big part in this. Fred/ Mctominay are not trusted on their own, they are not good enough.

I like the point of the Turkish team example because everyone I have seen posts how good we were in that game but we weren't any good defensively.

They kept getting chance after chance and I do not think Ole wants to go into games you attack we attack, he wants our team to have a solid base.

There is a couple of things with VDB that stands out at his career for United so far.

1) If Ole doesn't exactly value him as a player - why do we arguably see him most of the time when we need a goal in the last 10 mins of the match? Wasnt this a bit like how Ole himself was utelised, a bit like our super sub?

2) I think one of the most interesting things is how he has played in different positions so far as a Midfielder; he has played deep aswell as playing as the further CM forward in a CAM role.

3) he actually plays the game differently to the CM or CAM he competes with like Pogba, Fred or Bruno.

Do we have a CM who plays like VDB? Does he play like Pogba? Not really, from the little I've seen him from deep - he has almost been a possesion recycling player that keeps a tempo to our game by making short simple passes to the player in better position.

What about at CAM? VDB plays the role differently to Bruno Fernandes. Whilst Bruno Fernandes has great creativity almost to the point that he can play as a false 9 or CAM that brings others( mostly wider players) in to play - VDB is the opposite, his passing is more simple but makes runs like he is a shadow striker in to some deadly positions that are not really being picked up by someone else.


His gameplay is different to what we have in similar positions, whilst he is also quite a versatile player that is potentially capable playing deeper as a CDM in a double pivot as well as CM or CAM.


It's why this CDM is looking important to him. Say it was a more traditional ball winning midfielder like Rice; then we can have -

Bruno
Rice - VDB

Pogba/Bruno - VDB
Rice

Or the diamond type formation we see:


VDB
Pogba - Bruno
Rice
​

Maybe I'm wrong but I wouldn't write him off just yet and wonder if our replacement for Matic would bring up more performances showing the shadow striker version of VDB or the simple tiki taka passer from deep. The answer is probably a bit of both considering how Ole has used him a bit like a super sub so far in his time here and not much else.

 

[Adam-Utd]

I think the lack of CDM plays a big part in this. Fred/ Mctominay are not trusted on their own, they are not good enough.

I like the point of the Turkish team example because everyone I have seen posts how good we were in that game but we weren't any good defensively.

They kept getting chance after chance and I do not think Ole wants to go into games you attack we attack, he wants our team to have a solid base.

Think that was more Tuanzebe being shocking also. Demba Ba gave him the run around. DVB was probably the best player in that first half.

Matic was also at fault for the first goal, but because he was individually bad doesn't mean DVB can't play in midfield without a DM.

IF anything his best performance came alongside Fred at home with Fernandes ahead.

 

[romufc]

Think that was more Tuanzebe being shocking also. Demba Ba gave him the run around. DVB was probably the best player in that first half.

Matic was also at fault for the first goal, but because he was individually bad doesn't mean DVB can't play in midfield without a DM.

IF anything his best performance came alongside Fred at home with Fernandes ahead.

I am referring to the home game. It might have been his best performance but we did not look like we would keep a clean sheet.

In fact Istanbul attacked us at will in that game. If you look at the game stats, it shows we were not in full control.

 

[romufc]

Maybe I'm wrong but I wouldn't write him off just yet and wonder if our replacement for Matic would bring up more performances showing the shadow striker version of VDB or the simple tiki taka passer from deep. The answer is probably a bit of both considering how Ole has used him a bit like a super sub so far in his time here and not much else.

I agree with you, he is a completely different player to anyone in our squad, which is why he has struggled. Most of the players we have in our squad are direct players, whereas VDB is the opposite. He is all about keeping the ball moving and movement. We have seen it in various games, he will come collect the ball to pass it back to the same player then make movement.

He also seems to like running in behind the forwards which means CM isn't really suited to him. The problem he is has is Bruno. He is not better than him in that role which means he cannot get minutes. Bruno plays 90% of the minutes.

I would like to see Ole work on a system that he can incorporate him because he is a very efficient player.

 

[Adam-Utd]

I am referring to the home game. It might have been his best performance but we did not look like we would keep a clean sheet.

In fact Istanbul attacked us at will in that game. If you look at the game stats, it shows we were not in full control.

1 game isn’t enough to prove either way. we’ve had just as bad performances without him in the side also.

Our defence was also going through a very dodgy period at that stage, i’d say if we tried it now things would look more stable.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Some deep analysis about VDB and also when he played in deeper role at Ajax. You can clearly see why Ole doesn't play him because his ball playing style just not suitable for us.

https://breakingthelines.com/scouting-report/scouting-report-donny-van-de-beek/

Here are the important bit:

While Van de Beek isn’t slow on the turn, he isn’t the fastest. It means that he won’t be targeted nor would he be an issue in buildup if played deeper than usual as he can turn himself to face the opponent’s goal. Although it’s only one game, I will break down for you the stats of his game against Getafe where he played in a pivot.

Out of Ajax’s 467 attempted passes during this game, Van de Beek only attempted 29 of them. His partner in the pivot, Lisandro Martínez attempted 47 passes, the third highest amount in this Ajax side. He also didn’t progress the ball much with only 1 progressive pass and 2.35 meters progressed by passes, which is a very low amount. For comparison, Martínez had 6.19 progressed meters per pass. Defensively, he only regained one pressure during the whole game and made only one interception.

What we could gain from this rather small sample size is that the 23-year-old doesn’t dictate play from deeper areas and is rather looking to progress the ball to get rid of it as fast as he could. He doesn’t get heavily involved in possession either, even when he plays deep. This is why I would rather have him as a box-to-box in a pivot if he has to play there if an injury crisis occurs. Otherwise, I would play him as an advanced playmaker in a 4–2–3–1.

 

[Adam-Utd]

@UNITED ACADEMY

hard to compare them really as Ajax regularly dominate their league counter parts, so he doesn’t need to worry about build up. he gets into the box and scores and assists.

He showed in the pre season game against Villa that he’s more than capable of doing that sort of job, I think many forget that he’s already given that type of performance although at a pre season level.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

@UNITED ACADEMY

hard to compare them really as Ajax regularly dominate their league counter parts, so he doesn’t need to worry about build up. he gets into the box and scores and assists.

He showed in the pre season game against Villa that he’s more than capable of doing that sort of job, I think many forget that he’s already given that type of performance although at a pre season level.

The quote was about him playing vs Getafe. Getafe is La Liga team not Eredivisie.

 

[Adam-Utd]

The quote was about him playing vs Getafe. Getafe is La Liga team not Eredivisie.

And Getafe are hardly a world class side either are they? the point still stands. Ajax were head and shoulders over them at the time.

 

[Danillaco]

He needs another season and especially a pre-season before we can come to any definitive conclusion. There have been way too many cases of United legends or good players pre-maturely written off.

Fletcher is the most glaring example.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

And Getafe are hardly a world class side either are they? the point still stands. Ajax were head and shoulders over them at the time.

Your points make no sense. In logic, VDB should be able to play more progress ball because he's playing against lesser teams.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Your points make no sense. In logic, VDB should be able to play more progress ball because he's playing against lesser teams.

You cant progress the ball if you're standing up front on the last line can you?

He leaves that to his team mates and gets into advanced positions with movement.

Stop watching football with stats and use your eyes.

 

[talking robot]

At least he'll finally get some minutes with the fixture pile up.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

You cant progress the ball if you're standing up front on the last line can you?

He leaves that to his team mates and gets into advanced positions with movement.

Stop watching football with stats and use your eyes.

Mate, vs Getafe he plays in double pivot. Of course he can progress the ball if he has the mentality to play more risky. As a double pivot, you should be involved in the build up play to progress the ball forward to your front four.

The issue is that he is not progressive type of midfielder or deep playmaker type of midfielder, that's why he plays more safe option. And that's why he needs to develop it to play in here more regular.

 

[Foxbatt]

Could he play with Fred instead of McTominay? At least give him a couple of games with Fred?

 

[Teja]

Think he's limited to appearances either LW / RW for the remainder of the games this season. He looked pretty good coming in from the right - drops deep and creates an overload at CM during the build up and his quick pass and move type football allows for neater transitions. If he does well out wide, maybe he takes over from Bruno in the less important games.

We'll play this tomorrow:

-------------------- Martial -----------------------------
-------- VdB ----- Bruno ------ Greenwood ---

 

[CG1010]

Some deep analysis about VDB and also when he played in deeper role at Ajax. You can clearly see why Ole doesn't play him because his ball playing style just not suitable for us.

https://breakingthelines.com/scouting-report/scouting-report-donny-van-de-beek/

Here are the important bit:

While Van de Beek isn’t slow on the turn, he isn’t the fastest. It means that he won’t be targeted nor would he be an issue in buildup if played deeper than usual as he can turn himself to face the opponent’s goal. Although it’s only one game, I will break down for you the stats of his game against Getafe where he played in a pivot.

Out of Ajax’s 467 attempted passes during this game, Van de Beek only attempted 29 of them. His partner in the pivot, Lisandro Martínez attempted 47 passes, the third highest amount in this Ajax side. He also didn’t progress the ball much with only 1 progressive pass and 2.35 meters progressed by passes, which is a very low amount. For comparison, Martínez had 6.19 progressed meters per pass. Defensively, he only regained one pressure during the whole game and made only one interception.

What we could gain from this rather small sample size is that the 23-year-old doesn’t dictate play from deeper areas and is rather looking to progress the ball to get rid of it as fast as he could. He doesn’t get heavily involved in possession either, even when he plays deep. This is why I would rather have him as a box-to-box in a pivot if he has to play there if an injury crisis occurs. Otherwise, I would play him as an advanced playmaker in a 4–2–3–1.

This has been the foremost concern before he came, and while watching the matches. For his greatest strength being technical abilities, movement and passing, his involvement in general play is very limited. Even in advanced positions he is expected to be the playmaker opening spaces for others. But he can't do that when the game bypasses him completely. It seems to be his style of play for some reason and he wants to be a goal-scoring #10. But we have superior players to do goal scoring and they dominate our front three so we need him to do more traditional #10 job, which I fear he simply isn't capable of doing.

He can still mold himself to play in a pivot as he has all the raw materials and more importantly we need that kind of a midfielder.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

This has been the foremost concern before he came, and while watching the matches. For his greatest strength being technical abilities, movement and passing, his involvement in general play is very limited. Even in advanced positions he is expected to be the playmaker opening spaces for others. But he can't do that when the game bypasses him completely. It seems to be his style of play for some reason and he wants to be a goal-scoring #10. But we have superior players to do goal scoring and they dominate our front three so we need him to do more traditional #10 job, which I fear he simply isn't capable of doing.

He can still mold himself to play in a pivot as he has all the raw materials and more importantly we need that kind of a midfielder.

In my opinion double pivot is his only chance to play regularly here. He won't take Bruno's spot and Ole is unlikely to turn Bruno as a no 8 because of his end product ability.

However, he must get rid the habit to play safe and develop into a player that is not shy to take a risk and make progressive ball.

 

[KirkDuyt]

He's starting, wonder if he can make an impact.

 

[Bobski]

Forget the discussion about his ability, best role, there is nothing to suggest he has the mentality to play for for a club like Utd.

His usual tonight, couple of moments of clever play but mostly drifting through.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Silent abomination.

 

[Ekeke]

Doesnt look sharp at all

 

[mu4c_20le]

Lingard died for this.

 

[acnumber9]

I forgot he wasn’t brought off when Rashford came on. That was my favourite part of the match.

 

[Red-Man-Walking]

Didn't look arsed which is probably the most damning

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

I wouldn’t like to play a game of hide and seek with this guy.

 

[sullydnl]

This season is a right off for him.

Doubt he'll be going anywhere so hopefully the break and pre-season will see something click for him.

 

[Jackal981]

Shite. His run during our counter when Rashford brings the ball up sum up his time here. Sell him for 20m