Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch

[Jonno]

But we’d basically won the league before it all started going into lockdown. We didn’t even have to kick another ball in the end because of City dropping points.

This is the * season.

The * season will ALWAYS be last season. The year that football was completely suspended mid-season and there was talk of writing the season off, restarting the season or awarding trophies to current leaders.

This season is normal service resumed, with only occasional games re-arranged, no talk of suspension, or write offs.

 

[Jonno]

Last night really was terrible from Liverpool.

Setting up to play against Burnley by just hoofing the ball long or getting it out wide and swinging in aimless shitty crosses over and over is just absolute madness. Burnley can deal with that sort of old fashioned 80s football all day long.

Liverpool played right into Burnley's hands.

They've been doing it for months. You saw that graphic against the bottom 6 clubs or so. They only beat Sheff United and failed to beat the rest. I remember the Sheff United game, they didn't deserve to win that and were rather fortunate.

This is how I remember Liverpool, failing to beat average teams and battling for top 4 as a result.

 

[RobinLFC]

Has there ever been a more difficult title to win?

Think about it for a second.

Whatever you have made up in your mind is fine by me. If Utd wins it, it's still gonna count as 1 league title no matter how much you big it up

 

[RobinLFC]

The * season will ALWAYS be last season. The year that football was completely suspended mid-season and there was talk of writing the season off, restarting the season or awarding trophies to current leaders.

This season is normal service resumed, with only occasional games re-arranged, no talk of suspension, or write offs.

Just the 323 posts then.

It's amazing how yous were all describing the season as "totally unfair", "a complete joke" and whatnot up until Christmas when Liverpool were top, and now it's the hardest season ever to win and a completely normal season again. I wonder how long this opinion will hold up should it become clear that Utd won't win the title. My guess is it'll be right back to the "joke of a season" comments.

Whoever wins it will deserve it and it counts as a league title just like all others, that's my opinion by the way. Just really funny how a lot of people on here have made a complete U-turn regarding their opinion on the current season now Utd are suddenly in the title race.

 

[GoldTrafford99]

Klopp’s teams have history of burn out.

We’ve seen it happen before.

His Dortmund team had three consecutive seasons of being the hardest working team in Bundesliga in much similar fashion to how Liverpool have been the hardest working (both on and off the ball) in the Premier League since 2017/18.

In Klopp’s final season, Dortmund were in the relegation zone at Christmas because they just deflated.

Then he left, claiming he, himself, needed a breather. He was wrecked. He looks wrecked now, in truth.

I love Klopp. I think he’s done a stellar job at both clubs. But it seems his football philosophy has a short shelf life for players.

I hate to say this, though I fear it’s true: Liverpool’s balloon (like Dortmund’s) may well have burst so much that Klopp will never be able to blow it back up.

There are so many parallels between Klopp at Dortmund and Klopp at Liverpool.

Either way, he did a great job at both. And is a club legend X 2.

But the football he tasks his teams with playing is just not sustainable to oversee a period of dominance. Jurgen Klopp is no Sir Alex Ferguson.

Though I hope he surprises me and blows that balloon back up. I like seeing Liverpool at the top. I’d love to see Liverpool and Man Utd go at it together without these ‘lottery winner’ clubs such as Chelsea and Man City. When City or Chelsea win a title, it means nothing to me. I genuinely couldn't care less... So, their rich owner bought them a squad to win a title? feck that! Give me a club that uses its own resources to compete, not its owners deep pockets. I congratulate Liverpool on their past two seasons which brought them two major trophies. But I think it's finished for them now. We have a precedence for this. Klopp's teams burn out. This team has - undoubtedly - burnt out.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Whatever you have made up in your mind is fine by me. If Utd wins it, it's still gonna count as 1 league title no matter how much you big it up

Shit attempt at a wum.

 

[Judas]

Moyes and Jose will setup exactly like Burnley, but with far more quality to counter.

Fair fecks to Liverpool if they're still in the title conversation in a few weeks time, because their fixture list is horrendous, they desperately need a simple game, but what is that for them? They've struggled badly against the sides you'd think they'd brush aside.

 

[Real Name]

Just the 323 posts then.

It's amazing how yous were all describing the season as "totally unfair", "a complete joke" and whatnot up until Christmas when Liverpool were top, and now it's the hardest season ever to win and a completely normal season again. I wonder how long this opinion will hold up should it become clear that Utd won't win the title. My guess is it'll be right back to the "joke of a season" comments.

Whoever wins it will deserve it and it counts as a league title just like all others, that's my opinion by the way. Just really funny how a lot of people on here have made a complete U-turn regarding their opinion on the current season now Utd are suddenly in the title race.

On the other hand your fellow Liverpool fan is claiming this should be a * season. Btw you're on an United board and you wonder how come there's bit of bias towards.. Well.. United.
You use to be a great poster but by each day you're coming closer to the bunch which got banned in the summer. Shame.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

The * season will ALWAYS be last season. The year that football was completely suspended mid-season and there was talk of writing the season off, restarting the season or awarding trophies to current leaders.

This season is normal service resumed, with only occasional games re-arranged, no talk of suspension, or write offs.

exactly, because we all started the season knowing we were living with the virus / processes and procedures have been out in place. Clearly there’s the need to be flexible.

one of the Liverpool posters claimed this would be an * season because there have been rule changes! Grasping at straws. Hilarious.

1 win in 30 years and they thought they would go on and dominate the league. They are now rattled.

 

[RobinLFC]

You use to be a great poster but by each day you're coming closer to the bunch which got banned in the summer. Shame.

Says the guy who's been here for three months. Damn, that's some steep decline.

 

[Counterfactual]

I love Klopp.
...
I like seeing Liverpool at the top.

Woah! Steady on there chap!

 

[Tom Van Persie]

He'll be managing Germany after the WC in 2022.

 

[Dec9003]

Just the 323 posts then.

It's amazing how yous were all describing the season as "totally unfair", "a complete joke" and whatnot up until Christmas when Liverpool were top, and now it's the hardest season ever to win and a completely normal season again. I wonder how long this opinion will hold up should it become clear that Utd won't win the title. My guess is it'll be right back to the "joke of a season" comments.

Whoever wins it will deserve it and it counts as a league title just like all others, that's my opinion by the way. Just really funny how a lot of people on here have made a complete U-turn regarding their opinion on the current season now Utd are suddenly in the title race.

It has been a joke of a season, three teams having to go and play in Europe whilst not getting a true pre season, meanwhile the World champions get to have a full one and get fans in the ground. Truly, an incredible effort against all the odds from City and Utd to get above one of the greatest teams ever that would definitely for sure get loads of its players in the treble winning team.

 

[Real Name]

Says the guy who's been here for three months. Damn, that's some steep decline.

You're aware you can read the forum before you register? It is possible.

 

[RobinLFC]

It has been a joke of a season

Finally someone that agrees with me

 

[Random Task]

Whatever you have made up in your mind is fine by me. If Utd wins it, it's still gonna count as 1 league title no matter how much you big it up

It was a Liverpool fan @Klopper who pointed out the many trials facing clubs this season and that the title winners deserves an asterisk (he meant gold star but whatever), I just agreed with him.

Personally, I think the winner should be awarded two league titles and a free Sancho this year, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Ish]

Before the season started!
On England and not us!

was just messing with ya, bud! We've been very disciplined, indeed. The manager/coaching staff need to take some kudos there.

 

[Bojan11]

They were never going to manage the form of last season. They won by the odd goal in 14 games. That was never going to repeat that this season and they were actually better in 18/19 performance wise. Last season they were just scrapping victories and teams have worked them out. It’s why Fergie was a master because he’d make a change even when the team was successful. They should have spent money on upgrading Firminho, who was crap last season.

 

[Random Task]

exactly, because we all started the season knowing we were living with the virus / processes and procedures have been out in place. Clearly there’s the need to be flexible.

one of the Liverpool posters claimed this would be an * season because there have been rule changes! Grasping at straws. Hilarious.

1 win in 30 years and they thought they would go on and dominate the league. They are now rattled.

There was always a strong chance they would struggle this season, what with their ageing squad and Klopp insisting on running his players into the ground with his gengenpress strategy. He did the same thing to the Dortmund players.

 

[Dec9003]

Finally someone that agrees with me

Oi! Just because you’re allowed to edit the rules at the end of a season to help you win your one league title in 30 years doesn’t mean you’re allowed to edit one of my great posts.

 

[RobinLFC]

It was a Liverpool fan @Klopper who pointed out the many trials facing clubs this season and that the title winners deserves an asterisk (he meant gold star but whatever), I just agreed with him.

Personally, I think the winner should be awarded two league titles and a free Sancho this year, but that's just my opinion.

I still think you'll fall short by a considerable margin (based on nothing but my gut feeling so don't shoot me please), but I have no problem to admit that you had to overcome difficult circumstances to start the season and that you've already improved way more than I expected you to under Ole. It would indeed be quite an achievement if you went from what you were last season as a team, to champions within the span of a year. Let's just hope for my sanity that it doesn't happen.

Just a shame about our own sudden drop-off. I would've loved to see a proper title race between City, United and Liverpool.

 

[WeePat]

This seems to just be a continuation of the iffy form they showed during project restart.

 

[RobinLFC]

They were never going to manage the form of last season. They won by the odd goal in 14 games. That was never going to repeat that this season and they were actually better in 18/19 performance wise. Last season they were just scrapping victories and teams have worked them out. It’s why Fergie was a master because he’d make a change even when the team was successful. They should have spent money on upgrading Firminho, who was crap last season.

Honest question, but isn't winning 44% of your winning games by a one goal margin quite normal? Haven't done the research but I'd honestly expect any champion of the last ten years to win around half of their games with just the one goal difference. Could be way off though, no idea.

And it's indeed why Fergie was so good but I don't think you can blaim us for that - we bought Thiago and Jota was on course to be a great upgrade on Firmino before his injury. Imo it's really our lack of proper CB back-up that fecks us over this season, it was a glaring issue in the offseason and wasn't adressed because we probably banked on VVD being fit the entire season once again. The problem right now isn't necessarily our defense but rather scoring goals, but I'd like to think VVD's part in our build-up played a big part in that too. Not sure again though.

 

[Jonno]

Just the 323 posts then.

It's amazing how yous were all describing the season as "totally unfair", "a complete joke" and whatnot up until Christmas when Liverpool were top, and now it's the hardest season ever to win and a completely normal season again. I wonder how long this opinion will hold up should it become clear that Utd won't win the title. My guess is it'll be right back to the "joke of a season" comments.

Whoever wins it will deserve it and it counts as a league title just like all others, that's my opinion by the way. Just really funny how a lot of people on here have made a complete U-turn regarding their opinion on the current season now Utd are suddenly in the title race.

323 posts on a football forum between fans, its never been contemplated between the FA and the Premier League, nor any of the clubs. It's always been maintained this season will continue regardless of the pandemic.

I wasn't describing anything as "totally unfair", Ive been content with the season, all season, its been fun. Granted, we didn't have a preseason, I think we played 1 game and were awful for the first few weeks, but I personally thought we'd get better. Never once have I thought it was a joke of a season.

Funny how you're trying to brush this season, the season Liverpool's wheels have come off, as an * season. I have been quite open and vocal on here about my views that Klopp wouldn't and couldn't sustain the type of football he's played. He's ran them into the ground and this squad is now in need of major, major investment to make you title challengers again. Majority of your spine is 29+

 

[RobinLFC]

Whoever wins it will deserve it and it counts as a league title just like all others, that's my opinion by the way.

Funny how you're trying to brush this season, the season Liverpool's wheels have come off, as an * season.

I can't... even...

 

[mancan92]

To be fair it's not burn out its just confidence. they have still dominated all their games and have had something like 90 shots which is ridiculous. just means the players final shot has been bad. it will auto correct soon.

 

[Bojan11]

Honest question, but isn't winning 44% of your winning games by a one goal margin quite normal? Haven't done the research but I'd honestly expect any champion of the last ten years to win around half of their games with just the one goal difference. Could be way off though, no idea.

And it's indeed why Fergie was so good but I don't think you can blaim us for that - we bought Thiago and Jota was on course to be a great upgrade on Firmino before his injury. Imo it's really our lack of proper CB back-up that fecks us over this season, it was a glaring issue in the offseason and wasn't adressed because we probably banked on VVD being fit the entire season once again. The problem right now isn't necessarily our defense but rather scoring goals, but I'd like to think VVD's part in our build-up played a big part in that too. Not sure again though.

Man City in 18/19 won by one goal margins in 9 games and season before that 10 times.

You both showed tremendous consistency, but that was always going to drop. Those one goal games are now turning into draws or losses like most normal premier league seasons.

 

[Jonno]

I can't... even...

Ahh, just checked back, my mistake it was Klopper not you Robin.

This is the * season.

 

[Judas]

To be fair it's not burn out its just confidence. they have still dominated all their games and have had something like 90 shots which is ridiculous. just means the players final shot has been bad. it will auto correct soon.

I don't know how burn out can be ruled out. It looks like a mixture of both to me. Burn out first, and with that the confidence has dropped.

They're dominating, but not in the same way as before, nowhere near. It's so much slower, even more predictable than last season too.

 

[GoldTrafford99]

To be fair it's not burn out its just confidence. they have still dominated all their games and have had something like 90 shots which is ridiculous. just means the players final shot has been bad. it will auto correct soon.

You do know they are running - off the ball - 1.5k less per game this season compared to the two seasons before?

 

[Sassy Colin]

And this doesnt affect Utd? In these testing times you dont have Utd players breaking covid protocols. Fully professional, focused on winning the toughest league title of all time.
All star manager having a meltdown over it, glorious Pep having to change his style to Jose lite to win a few games on the run while Ole is simply continuing what he implement a year ago.
Its not our fault others are insufficient at dealing with this where we have excelled

We do, just not important ones.

 

[jymufc20]

So @padr81 , @PepG , and all City fans. You've lost your brotherhood of Utd fans for the league title this season but worry ye not.

You have us as your allies. Now don't feck it up. Should be a cinch, it's only Ole so you won't need 100 or 98 points.

 

[Oranges038]

Just for the record, he also did this across an earlier 11 year period:

92/93 Champions: Manchester United - 93/94 - 1st
93/94 Champions: Manchester United - 94/95 - 2nd (1 point off)
95/96 Champions: Manchester United - 96/97 - 1st
96/97 Champions: Manchester United - 97/98 - 2nd (1 point off)
98/99 Champions: Manchester United - 99/00 - 1st
99/00 Champions: Manchester United - 00/01 - 1st
00/01 Champions: Manchester United - 01/02 - 3rd (10 points off )
02/03 Champions: Manchester United

If I remember correctly, during the first half of the season Fergie would work them hard and make sure the teams fitness levels would be built up to sustain the season. For the second half of the season he would use games for fitness (as they would generally be 3 games every 9 days or so) and training would be lighter and geared more towards recovery. This meant the payers were generally less fatigued and fresher in the second half, which is why his teams generally performed better from Christmas onwards. It's probably also why he was able to maintain teams and player performances at the very top for several years at a time. He didn't push them to the limit every day, he also did not have this rushed high press high intensity game that Klopp plays, but he always expected his team to run more than the opposition.

I'm not sure how Klopp does it, but it's quite clear from Dortmund and now Liverpool that his playing and training style is draining the players. This 2 year cycle of peak performance levels before the drop off is what happens.

He finished 6,5,1,1,2,2,7 in the Bundesliga, the two years he won it, Bayern were at a really low point. The drop in points from winning in 2012 to second in 2013 was from 81pts to 66pts and finished 2nd again in 2013 with 71pts. And to be fair it wasn't hard to finish 2nd in the Bundesliga in those seasons, he finished 25 points off Bayern in 2013 in 2nd, and 19 points behind in 14, before coming 7th.

Now with Liverpool he's gone 8,4,4,2,1 now 4th but not far off the top. It just looks like the cycle is repeating itself.

 

[Rob]

It's some drop in form since we beat Spurs and then Palace 7-0, at which point it looked like we were going to at least make a serious run for it again.

Not sure how it happened. Considering we won the CL 18 months ago and are current league champions, I find it hard to grasp how we can suddenly be so devoid of confidence as it has looked like for five games now.

But it's not just that. Yesterday, it was obvious that there was only really one plan and it wasn't working. Our backs, who are usually two of our most important attacking outlets, aren't playing well, neither were our front three, and the midfield was just meh. Klopp's got a big task in hand to sort out the confidence as well as figure out an alternative plan for attacking games when the first one isn't working. And also to find a better way to fit in Thiago, because right now all those passes just seem a bit pointless.

As we look right now, we ought to be happy just to get top 4. But as we all know, this season is unpredictable to say the least, so who knows how it looks in a months time.

 

[Falcow]

It's partly on him and it's partly on the players. Some of them have let their heads drop and this started when the first lockdown ended. You could see that the levels had dropped a bit.

There are several factors at play but I would love to know whether he is instructing players to try these hopeless long diagonal crosses into the oppositions box. They're always hit high as well so players like Salah and Mane don't have a chance. Shaqiri did this several times tonight and Henderson does it all the time. Does my head in and never results in a goal.

I still maintain that this drop off was bound to happen after the last two seasons. It happened to City last year and now it's happening to us. This drop off has come all at once leading to a horrific run of form we're currently in.

Interestingly this seems to be a common occurrence when reigning champions try to defend their crown:

12/13 - Champions: Manchester United / 13/14 - 7th
13/14 - Champions: Manchester City / 14/1- - 2nd (8 points off of champions Chelsea).
14/15 - Champions: Chelsea / 15/16 - 10th
15/16 - Champions: Leicester / 16/17 - 12th
16/17 Champions: Chelsea / 17/18 - 5th (30 points behind City)

Then City retained it but fell off massively in 19/20, finishing 18 points behind us.

Now we're looking like we're going to finish way off the pace this season.

Except for the 12 times before the last title Fergie won......you know, the ones where he didnt retire straight after.

City last year were in transition but still managed 81 points.

 

[TheNewEra]

Klopp is probably the second best manager in the world after Pep.

What he did to win Liverpool the CL and the League is incredible obviously.

The fact he didn't strengthen in the summer meant they are in the position they are now.

SAF would always go in hard during the transfer windows after winning trophies, maybe to keep the team competitive or to keep the hunger there for players.

Losing VVD is a massive loss obviously but their front 3 should be in their prime right now and haven't scored in seven hours.

 

[Jonno]

Klopp is probably the second best manager in the world after Pep.

What he did to win Liverpool the CL and the League is incredible obviously.

The fact he didn't strengthen in the summer meant they are in the position they are now.

SAF would always go in hard during the transfer windows after winning trophies, maybe to keep the team competitive or to keep the hunger there for players.

Losing VVD is a massive loss obviously but their front 3 should be in their prime right now and haven't scored in seven hours.

It just highlights the gulf in class between somebody like Fergie who has the ability to sacrifice current success for long term success with someone like Klopp. That's the difference between an all time great, and a very good manager. Klopp has put all his blood, sweat and tears into 2-3 very good years. Fair enough and congratulations on their brief success, but I would rather have a dynasty than a flash in the pan. That's just me.

For example, Fergie would be half building the next squad whilst winning with his current squad. Rather than acquiring a huge core of peak players and running them into the ground.

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

Liverpool couldn't sustain their output and it shows. It's on full display. The way they turned draws into 3 points was insane because they pumped long balls and crosses into opposition boxes at a relentless pace. This year that pace has reduced and the effectiveness has waned. Back to some type of normalcy. TAA and Robertson are fullbacks for a reason because if their overall football talent and skills were better, in addition to their delivery, they wouldn't be fullbacks.

It's only been four league matches but right now no team can afford consecutive games without a win. It's only 6 points behind United and plenty of time to cover the ground, but they are in a massive attacking rut (long may it continue). There's enough service to get a goal or two like we've seen today, but then their forwards are off the boil at the same time their fullback's cannot provide enough quality. They miss Jota more than VVD.

Klopp has to decide if he's going to change his team for a 3rd time or stick with what he's got...Gegenpress (counter-press), Press + Direct Longballs/Crossing, ?

Also feel that teams learn pretty quickly how to nullify threats. Now TAA has an unreal delivery on him, but if you know he is ALWAYS looking for that early ball in, then you set up to stop that. Now you cannot always defend an amazing delivery, sometimes the ball is too good. But all it takes is a little drop off in quality and suddenly that threat quickly disappears.

In my opinion, this is where you separate great players from good players; the ability to not only have one trick in your locker. Trent has a great delivery but he isn't really an athlete, he cannot tackle, defensively he is suspect, dribbling isn't his thing etc. So now you have a player whose only real ability is faltering, meaning you are now carrying a player who is not offering anything.

People have been calling them out on this forum for ages that they are a hoof ball team and it is true. They haven't played good football in 24 months but it has been mightily effective, the challenge now is changing it up and getting back to winning ways.

 

[Buster15]

What a brilliant result for little Burnley.
Nothing better than watching Klopp squirming on the touchline.
All Manchester United fans know how difficult it is to win the PL back to back.
Really cannot wait for us to knock them out of the FA Cup.

 

[Mihai]

Dunno what you’re on about mate:

06/07 Champions: Manchester United - 07/08 - 1st
07/08 Champions: Manchester United - 08/09 - 1st
08/09 Champions: Manchester United - 09/10 - 2nd (1 point off)
10/11 Champions: Manchester United - 11/12 - 2nd (Level points)
12/13 Champions: Manchester United - 13/14 - MOYESt


You won the league one year and then you burnt out. A great team and manager can win it 5 out of 7 seasons with just 1 point in total the difference across the other two seasons.

I think this shows how SAF was in a completely different league even compared to today's best managers.