The Improvement of Harry Maguire

[AgentSmith]

Who gets in RB ahead of him? I'm not an england fan, I just base it off watching the prem each week. I don't see a better RB in the league thats English at the minute.

Southgate has seemingly been trying to decide between TAA and James while settling for Trippier or Walker as the experienced back-ups.

Don’t see any room for AWB in that mix.

Maguire and Shaw should 100% be the left-hand side of the defence though.

 

[El Jefe]

He's a good player but he's not really a great defender and that's why the criticism is OTT when it comes to him.

His price tag just can't be ignored. You spend £80m on a defender and you want a top level defender. While he's a good defender, I don't think a team will ever be solid at the back if he's the best defender at a club.

If you had him alongside Ruben Dias or VVD and paid £50m for him, you'd be extremely happy. The issue is he was brought in to be the leader of the defence and while we're not awful at the back we're not really a dominant defensive side either.

 

[bosnian_red]

Who gets in RB ahead of him? I'm not an england fan, I just base it off watching the prem each week. I don't see a better RB in the league thats English at the minute.

Think they go a 3-5-2 thing a lot, which makes AWB pointless. TAA the obvious starter, Trippier is the closest to that stylistically, James is a good all rounded, Wan Bissaka the best defensively, Walker a good all rounder and experienced. IMO should be TAA/AWB/James but Southgate picks his experienced guys a lot.

 

[A-man]

Exactly, this is a classic case of hate the players when they play for Manutd, cry about them when they leave.

Smalling has made some comical errors in Serie A. Unless you watch 90 mins every game, I would urge fans not to compare him with Lindelof.

Lindelof, with all his flaws is still a good CB. Not the best but he would be in most squads as a backup CB.

I think Smalling is the best example of a player that became “world class” after he left. Absolutely not a poor player, but he has not performed as good as our defender imo.

 

[romufc]

I think Smalling is the best example of a player that became “world class” after he left. Absolutely not a poor player, but he has not performed as good as our defender imo.

Some of the stuff people come out with, he is our best defender etc, why we selling him?

It's as if Ole and the coaches have 0 coaching experience or badges to judge a player, or it seems that way.

They may not be your cup of tea but, I am sure they can tell a decent player considering they got rid of Fellaini, Young, Darmian, Rojo and the like.

 

[Hammondo]

I'm sorry, I disagree completely. Only defender who deserves plaudits has been Shaw, the rest have been "OK" at best. Bailly has played too little, but the 3-4 consecutive performances he had not so long ago was the best form of any CB we have this season.

To say Maguire has been "brilliant" is mind-boggling, at least for me.

I agree with this. There is very little that stands out about any of our defenders aside from Shaw. They are not notably good at anything.

 

[groovyalbert]

Yes we objectively overpayed for him, but I don't think we can understate just how desperate we were at that point and clearly keen to build our defence around someone PL proven.

But feck the fee - move on. He's a very good defender who has been able to do things no CB at the club has done since the likes of Vidic and Ferdinand were in their prime. Stay fit and consistent.

 

[romufc]

Yes we objectively overpayed for him, but I don't think we can understate just how desperate we were at that point and clearly keen to build our defence around someone PL proven.

But feck the fee - move on. He's a very good defender who has been able to do things no CB at the club has done since the likes of Vidic and Ferdinand were in their prime. Stay fit and consistent.

Perfect.

Its not rocket science to understand, so many fans use the fee to beat Maguire with.

They also talk about not being captain material, who cares? If the team need the leader to always be the captain, then you haven't got enough leaders on the pitch.

Do you think Bruno gives a feck who's captain? a leader will always get respect from the captain and the team.

We speak as if we know what he's like in the dressing room and off the pitch, a captain does alot more than shout at people on the pitch.

No one thought Henderson is a captain when he got it.
Kompany wasn't a captain when they bought him.

 

[Polar]

Everyone screams about his price tag. Remember the transfer market was all time high when we bought Maquire.

VVDs price was pretty much the same 19 months earlier. He would probably costed 100m when we bought Maguire. Koulibaly’s price was 90m.

Maybe we overpaid 10m, because we were in desperate need for a CB. 75m would been a very fair price for Maquire in 2019. He is and was a leader/captain, young, regular on the national team and a very reliable and consistent player with the right mentality.

To give Maquire a 50-60m price tag in the 2019 market (summer) is complete nonsense. Would
probably been half the price of VVD in the same market and a lot cheaper than Koulibaly. That doesn’t make sense. It’s even hard to argue Koulibaly is a better player.

 

[A-man]

I agree with this. There is very little that stands out about any of our defenders aside from Shaw. They are not notably good at anything.

What stand out for our defence as unit are:
1. Concede a lot of corner goals
2. Concede very few goals except those from corners

 

[JMack1234]

I'm really happy with Maguire.

He gets way too much stick over the transfer fee which he had no control over.

He never gets injured which is a very underrated quality in a player. Brilliant in the air and very comfortable with the ball. His problem is that he's slow and he knows it. I think that's why he looks so much better with Bailly next to him. Gives him a bit more confidence?

 

[GifLord]

Thank God we have the fearless energetic proactive leader, *checks notes*... Victor Lindelöf.

I think you need to watch more Roma matches if you think Smalling still deserves to be playing for Utd.
He's been an absolute disaster these past few weeks for Roma

 

[Hammondo]

What stand out for our defence as unit are:
1. Concede a lot of corner goals
2. Concede very few goals except those from corners

Do you have the numbers?

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Maguire is reliable. Having a defender who is always fit is a luxury we haven't enjoyed for years. That said, I think Maguire is good - but not great. We needed a CB, we got one, and he plays every week, so that is all a massive boost.

 

[He'sRaldo]

A big problem is he's not what he's seemingly touted to be:


1) We bought him for a record 80 mil. He's not the best defender around or in the top 3-5.

2) We immediately gave him the Man Utd captaincy. He's not a standout leader, nor has he won anything significant.

3) We play him every game and adjust our game to accommodate him. He doesn't seem good enough for that level of accommodation.

4) There's talk of building the defence around him. Many don't view him as good enough for that.


These actions seem in direct contrast to a player who many fans view as not THAT good, so the seemingly preferential treatment leads to a high level of backlash. Especially if the fans are expecting to see a world class leader CB every game.

That said, he's solid most of the time, I'd say a Matip level player, and if he wasn't elevated beyond his station by the club I'm sure he'd be received a lot more favourably.

 

[RashyForPM]

Maguire has done well and I would say he is one of the best CBs in the league. What makes him stand out is his aerial dominance. We don’t have any other player who is dominant in the air. Then he has some bad sides and need someone to clean up behind him.


It could very well be Upamecano warming the bench.
Also, when you claim that Maguire has better defensive stats than all the other defenders, it is not smart because we can actually quite easily check it and find that it is not true.
Of our centrebacks:

Maguire has most interceptions.
Lindelof has most clearances.
Lindelof has most tackles.
Bailly has most blocked shots.

I don’t have the official data for defensive aerials but I would assume Maguire has most defensive aerials.

Considering I made such a long post, surely I’d have done some research before doing so? Just had another quick look at Maguire’s stats this season, and found what I knew already:

		Club rank
Interceptions	40	1st
Tackles	17	7th (AWB 1st, as I said)
Aerial battles won	89	1st
Clearances	75	1st

Not a clue where you got your stats from mate. Anyway, Maguire is an excellent defender. Also, no chance Lindelof keeps Upamecano on the bench. That’d be like Kabak keeping Van Dijk on the bench when he returns.

 

[A-man]

Do you have the numbers?

Not the updated numbers for the whole team. But when Lindelof and Maguire have played together, we have conceded 15 goals in total in 14 PL matches. 4-5 goals are in open play, then maybe 1-2 penalties, and I think the rest are from corners. I don’t have the exact numbers and could be wrong, but it is something like that.

Ins with corner goal I don’t only mean when someone heads the ball from the corner but also if we clear the ball and someone shoots a goal. As example.

 

[A-man]

Considering I made such a long post, surely I’d have done some research before doing so? Just had another quick look at Maguire’s stats this season, and found what I knew already:

		Club rank
Interceptions	40	1st
Tackles	17	7th (AWB 1st, as I said)
Aerial battles won	89	1st
Clearances	75	1st

Not a clue where you got your stats from mate. Anyway, Maguire is an excellent defender. Also, no chance Lindelof keeps Upamecano on the bench. That’d be like Kabak keeping Van Dijk on the bench when he returns.

Yes if you calculate total tackles etc it is no surprise that the one who played most has the most. It is more normal to calculate per game. Also, in your stats you don’t differentiate between offensive and defensive aerials, and it is therefore not a defensive stat.

Upamecano is interesting but I’m not sure he would be guaranteed a place in the starting xi. He is not a very safe player and imo just a little below all our three CBs in level. It can not be compared with Kabak - VvD, if you believe that you can't have watched the players we discuss very much.

 

[RashyForPM]

Yes if you calculate total tackles etc it is no surprise that the one who played most has the most. It is more normal to calculate per game. Also, in your stats you don’t differentiate between offensive and defensive aerials, and it is therefore not a defensive stat.

Upamecano is interesting but I’m not sure he would be guaranteed a place in the starting xi. He is not a very safe player and imo just a little below all our three CBs in level. It can not be compared with Kabak - VvD, if you believe that you can't have watched the players we discuss very much.

No I have not watched Kabak much, although I do watch Upamecano a lot. It’s just a more extreme example to slam home my point, that having watched both Lindelof and Upamecano for years, the difference in quality is massive.

 

[Yorkeontop]

He's ok. One of the best CB in Europe but that's not saying much these days. Wouldn't hurt if he started converting more of those headers from corners into goals.

 

[A-man]

No I have not watched Kabak much, although I do watch Upamecano a lot. It’s just a more extreme example to slam home my point, that having watched both Lindelof and Upamecano for years, the difference in quality is massive.

You’re obviously entitled to have your own opinion even though I don’t agree at all. He has too many flaws to be considered a guaranteed starter. But maybe you missed those matches...

 

[Yorkeontop]

Be interesting to watch the team without him just to see how much he'd be missed.

 

[Ekeke]

Much better on the ball today. Progessive passing and quicker with it

 

[DickDastardly]

Didn't have much to do in our half this game, but he was immense in their final third.

Very good at ball movement, very secure with possesion. Top marks

 

[Andycoleno9]

When we play deep he is really good. I admit that. But when we need to push, he is weakest link. He is just too slow. Laurent Blanc looks like Bolt comparing to Maguire. And that is huge problem now and for future.
People want quick defender with Harry. But quick defender can't teleport himself to cover his own side and Harry's side.

 

[Trequarista10]

The great thing about Maguire is that he's consistently good and easy to build around.

• If there was a world class level for staying fit, Maguire would up there.
• Practically without equal in the air from a defensive perspective. No one is going to bully him out of a header.
• Reliable with the ball at his feet. If he loses the ball, it's usually because he took a risk with a long pass.
• Good positioning means his lack of pace is partially made up for and means he doesn't have to take high risk tackles to make up for his own errors.

Meanwhile, his inconsistent areas are generally either in less dangerous areas of his game or in areas that can be made up for with clear attributes in his partner:

• Not super-proactive. He's got an imposing presence but doesn't have an all-action style. This actually makes sense because he lacks pace and needs to be mindful of his positioning rather than running around trying to make things happen. Therefore, a more proactive partner suits him well.
• Lacks pace. As established, he's a mountain that plods along. A quick, proactive centerback partner at least gives very clear guidelines when looking for the ideal partnership. This is important not just to cover Maguire's lack of pace, but to allow the team to play higher up the pitch.
• Inconsistent with heading the ball into goal. He's got some technique that needs sorting out to get the ball in with more verve. Just having a slabhead doesn't make you Cavani.
• The bad quality which cannot be made up for easily is that he's iffy one on one against pacy, tricky defenders.

All in all, while Harry probably won't ever be as good as Rio, he could absolutely be a centerpiece of a title -winning squad. He's consistently good where it matters most, 1v1 defending aside, and his weaknesses and inconsistencies are either things we can live with or things that have clear criteria for building around.

Good summary

 

[Rightnr]

Yeah, he's not even worth 80p, let alone 80m.

 

[Livewire1974]

He is overrated. Another amazing performance again today.

 

[Roboc7]

When he can defend deep and back off he’s a good solid centre back, when he can’t like tonight he is a very ordinary player and a liability if others can’t cover for him.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

We are well on course to concede over 50 league goals with this £80m England international leading our defence, with no imminent improvement in sight.

For all the shit Smalling and Jones copped, they never made as many errors in a single season as Maguire does currently. We’ve been mugged, no two ways about it.

 

[altodevil]

Liability. For 80m pounds he's a disgrace.

 

[McGrathsipan]

We will never win a major title with him leading the back line.
A fecking liability

 

[Skills]

46 goals conceded already this season in the PL. Just 8 less than the 54 we conceded in 18/19 that convinced us to spunk a WR fee on him with 16 games to go.

 

[Livewire1974]

Yeah, he's not even worth 80p, let alone 80m.

He is an expensive Phil Jones, a slight upgrade.

 

[Lewnited]

I just think any defender that is that easy to breeze past isn't worth a starting spot in a top team. Look at any team across Europe and you won't find another starting centreback thats as uncomfortable with being exposed as he is

 

[lilcurt]

Getting this fecking fraud out the club. Dreadful defender, absent leader, slow as a freight train to boot!

 

[Adisa]

Gave him the armband even before kicking a ball for us.

 

[U99ted]

Played everyone onside for the 3rd goal it looked like.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

We are well on course to concede over 50 league goals with this £80m England international leading our defence, with no imminent improvement in sight.

For all the shit Smalling and Jones copped, they never made as many errors in a single season as Maguire does currently. We’ve been mugged, no two ways about it.

This.

I’ve never witnessed a worse CB display from a United defender than his versus Spurs but he’s been forgiven despite not actually improving anyone around him.

Terrible signing.

 

[PlayerOne]

Can't defend when we really needed. Massive joke