Why the heck #OLEOUT is trending again?

[gerdm07]

Time for an update on Table points since the restart to keep things in perspective.

MC 33 matches, 77 points, 62 GD
MU 33, 67, 35
Liv 33, 58, 19
Che 32, 56, 17
LC 33, 55, 14

All this means is we have been comfortably the 2nd or 3rd best team in the PL for 33 matches. I say 2nd or 3rd because Liverpool did not have to play that hard during the restart because they had pretty much won the league at that point, and the fact they have lost their two starting CDs for this season which has affected their results as expected.

Ole has us on a good path and he should have the backing of supporters and the board to see where he takes us.

 

[Giggsy13]

He hasn't got much to bring in either. I mean Axel has not been a revelation. Bailly is injured. The problem I have with him is not exactly our defense either.
It's that he is not playing to the strength of the players he have. It's impossible to play out of the back with a keeper like DeGea who is horrible in his kicking. Then you have such a slow CBs. How can you play a high line and press when the two CBs are so slow and then you have a keeper who doesn't come off his line? To add to this we have two midfielders who can't pass the ball more than 10 feet.
But we want to play a pressing game?
The biggest mistake was buying Maguire to play in this team. He is ideal for a Leicester or a Jose team.
Incidentally Leicester moves the ball a lot quicker than us and their movements off the ball are a lot quicker than us.

There are solutions to these problems you mention. For one, stop starting McT and Fred together. Having both on is a massive overkill. Having Bruno and Pogba together was helping provide proper service to our forwards. Now with Pogba out, VDB should be getting more chances but Ole has failed to get the best out of him.

Axel provides more pace and a physical element to his game than Lindelof. We all saw his potential in Paris, Villa saw it when he was on loan with them yet Ole continues to give chances to Lindelof. Axel’s game is still raw, which is a byproduct also of the limited chances he’s been given by Ole but I’d rather see what we might have in him long term rather than what we already know about Lindelof.

Maguire was massive blunder in terms of price and expectations but Ole could have looked at other options. He also didn’t have to name him captain right away either. We all know who the true captain and leader of this team is anyways.

 

[Bubz27]

Only reason he's performing above expectations is because most people keep lowering the standards for him.

It's just moving of the goalposts. Look at their injuries, playing CMs at CB, then injuries to those CMs. Their misfiring attack. Of course the goals and expectations could move. This season has proved to be a massive opportunity for us to shine with our lack of injuries and reasonable squad (Pogba and VDB on the bench a lot, along with Telles, Greenwood etc..that's an embarrassment of riches compared to other teams), along with the form of Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal & Liverpool. In the end though we've become plodders who are going to have to scrap our way to the end and potentially have another season of...nothing.

Not to mention the absolute embarrassment of the CL stages. Talk about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. I've never seen anything like it.

For what it's worth, I agree.

 

[Bubz27]

Time for an update on Table points since the restart to keep things in perspective.

MC 33 matches, 77 points, 62 GD
MU 33, 67, 35
Liv 33, 58, 19
Che 32, 56, 17
LC 33, 55, 14

All this means is we have been comfortably the 2nd or 3rd best team in the PL for 33 matches. I say 2nd or 3rd because Liverpool did not have to play that hard during the restart because they had pretty much won the league at that point, and the fact they have lost their two starting CDs for this season which has affected their results as expected.

Ole has us on a good path and he should have the backing of supporters and the board to see where he takes us.

Yeah, under Ole any time the pressure is on we've bottled it. It doesn't surprise me we've performed well over 33 matches between 2 different seasons. I'd be shocked if we managed that level of performances over 33 games of the same season.

 

[anant]

You don't even need to look at points, just the quality of opponents is enough. No one is going to claim finishing above Liverpool as some grand achievement this season given their performances. Still they're not that far behind us and neither are Chelsea. It shows we've been poor ourselves and that we're very fortunate other teams were worse.

It's not Ole's fault that Pool went into this season with VVD, and two perennially injured CBs in Matip and Gomez. It's not Ole's fault that Chelsea spunked 250 odd million on players, and most of them have performed below average. And it's not Ole's fault that Mou is having an implosion.

Finishing above Pool - how many people thought that was likely? I don't think many people even gave us a chance of finishing above Chelsea this season. We still might now, but those were the expectations at the start.

Last season, we lost Pog, McT, Fred, martial, Rashford to injuries in the first half of the season. Don't think people claimed that Rodgers and Lampard are this high because Utd are having an injury crisis. The injury crisis argument has always been used to put Ole's achievements down rather than other way round for some reason (happened when Leicester imploded as well).

 

[RedDevilzFox]

The somewhat concerning part for me is that we've dropped so many points recently against teams from the bottom half. Our 'tough' games are ahead of us until the end of the season and they are coming fast. So unless we raise our game significantly, we are seriously risking top 4 position at this point.

 

[Bobcat]

so you are satisfied with what the guy that managed Molde is doing, but think United would be a step too far for the guys managing Leipzig and Monchengladbach?

Dont be obtuse. Managing Man Utd is on the top of his CV now and no matter how you spin it, hes taken the club into a better spot than he found it when he got here.

Rose and Nagelsmann look like good/very good managers, but there is no guarantee they would do well here. Much bigger names have failed

 

[Lee565]

If we finish 3rd again with either a liverpool side in a season of having a crazy injury crisis or Leicester city finishing above us and 20+ points difference between us and city I would see now real argument how we have made "progress" under ole this season, though obviously people will roll out the excuse of this being a "unique" and "strange" season and is unfair to judge ole on despite him obviously benefiting from it not being a completely normal season.

 

[Bobcat]

We took a bigger risk when signing Ole to be our manager and it didn't pay off.

What do you mean it didnt pay off?

Most of the deadwood are gone and the squad is in much better shape than the mess he inherited

Did you expect us to win the league last year?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Time for an update on Table points since the restart to keep things in perspective.

MC 33 matches, 77 points, 62 GD
MU 33, 67, 35
Liv 33, 58, 19
Che 32, 56, 17
LC 33, 55, 14

All this means is we have been comfortably the 2nd or 3rd best team in the PL for 33 matches.

Why since the restart? What does that mean? Why are you taking arbitrary dates and appointing meaning to them?
The “since Bruno” table at least made some sense.

Last season we were the joint third/fouth best team, this season we are currently the joint 2nd/3rd best team, but most of us know that that’s due to Liverpool‘s injury issues.

Why make it more difficult than it needs to be @gerdm07

And let’s be honest, the only thing that matters here is what position we are in at the end of the season.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

We could finish 2nd and that still won't be good enough for Ole outers. They predicted us to finish 4th many of them but will want him sacked for possibly coming 2nd.

There's just no logic to it.

 

[spiriticon]

#ManagerIn when we win and #ManagerOut when we lose. The simple fachts.

I don't think our fanbase now will ever come to a long-term agreement on any manager to be honest. It's a lifelong argument.

 

[Smores]

It's not Ole's fault that Pool went into this season with VVD, and two perennially injured CBs in Matip and Gomez. It's not Ole's fault that Chelsea spunked 250 odd million on players, and most of them have performed below average. And it's not Ole's fault that Mou is having an implosion.

Finishing above Pool - how many people thought that was likely? I don't think many people even gave us a chance of finishing above Chelsea this season. We still might now, but those were the expectations at the start.

Last season, we lost Pog, McT, Fred, martial, Rashford to injuries in the first half of the season. Don't think people claimed that Rodgers and Lampard are this high because Utd are having an injury crisis. The injury crisis argument has always been used to put Ole's achievements down rather than other way round for some reason (happened when Leicester imploded as well).

I didn't suggest anything you've stated in your first paragraph. That's a ridiculous argument you've made up. Please argue actual points raised.

You complained about a cross season comparison and i offered a reflection on this season. Liverpool and Chelsea have had horrendous seasons so it is a perfectly fair take that it's no achievement to be above them. It's also fair to say despite Chelsea being really poor they'll likely only be 4pts behind us tomorrow.

So yeah we're slightly better than a Chelsea who had to sack their manager midseason. It's hard to argue that can be seen as a great or even good season so far, both of those would see us much further away than them.

 

[Hughie77]

Dont be obtuse. Managing Man Utd is on the top of his CV now and no matter how you spin it, hes taken the club into a better spot than he found it when he got here.

Rose and Nagelsmann look like good/very good managers, but there is no guarantee they would do well here. Much bigger names have failed

Agree bigger names have failed, I think were playing much better football, but its inconsistent results, not performances that's hurt us. The only game we were pants in was SU at home in last 6 games. I think theres too many who think theres better managers out there. We've had them and they've thrown the baby out with the bath water. I just think a bit of patience is needed.

 

[united for life]

Enlighten me. Why?



It seems like they are coming back with these template of tweets, saying we have no progress.
These are expected, we are never going to win the title this season, and among all the other teams we are clearly the 2nd best team in the league right now.

That is progress.

some fans are clueless. The progress we’ve made under Ole is remarkable. Not winning the title this year doesn’t mean sack the manager and start all over. I dont think winning the league was a realistic target at the beginning of the season, so talking about it now shows the good work he’s done

 

[anant]

I didn't suggest anything you've stated in your first paragraph. That's a ridiculous argument you've made up. Please argue actual points raised.

You complained about a cross season comparison and i offered a reflection on this season. Liverpool and Chelsea have had horrendous seasons so it is a perfectly fair take that it's no achievement to be above them. It's also fair to say despite Chelsea being really poor they'll likely only be 4pts behind us tomorrow.

So yeah we're slightly better than a Chelsea who had to sack their manager midseason. It's hard to argue that can be seen as a great or even good season so far, both of those would see us much further away than them.

Why isn't it an achievement to finish above Pool, Chelsea and Spurs? Most on here were of the opinion that we'll finish below atleast the former 2, and IIRC, a lot felt we might finish lower as we don't have a "proper" manager

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

Unpopular opinion: you give Rodgers this team and we still don't overtake City, but we'd damn well be closer, or at least playing football which you could place some hope in

I cannot believe I agree with this, but sadly I do.....

 

[gerdm07]

Why since the restart? What does that mean? Why are you taking arbitrary dates and appointing meaning to them?
The “since Bruno” table at least made some sense.

Last season we were the joint third/fouth best team, this season we are currently the joint 2nd/3rd best team, but most of us know that that’s due to Liverpool‘s injury issues.

Why make it more difficult than it needs to be @gerdm07

And let’s be honest, the only thing that matters here is what position we are in at the end of the season.

Maybe because a global pandemic has made it such that

March 13 to June 16 - No matches
June 17 to February 15 - 33 matches

I didn't expect to be in the top 2 this season because we are not better than MC and Liverpool. We have closed the gap a bit and, hopefully, the table will reflect that. Next season I expect Ole to fully compete for a title. This season I just wanted to be in a the title hunt until the end of February.

 

[gerdm07]

Yeah, under Ole any time the pressure is on we've bottled it. It doesn't surprise me we've performed well over 33 matches between 2 different seasons. I'd be shocked if we managed that level of performances over 33 games of the same season.

Did we bottle the restart when we came from 6th place to finish 3rd? There was a lot of pressure during that period and the results speak for themselves.

 

[We need an rvn]

Unpopular opinion: you give Rodgers this team and we still don't overtake City, but we'd damn well be closer, or at least playing football which you could place some hope in

Nope, Ive said this many times. A brilliant manager and I'd have him any day at United in all honesty - no matter the history.

But not over Ole right now. Loyal to Ole and see what he does after one more season. I do think Rodgers is better tactically and just as good at man management, like his style of football too

 

[Giggsy13]

Why since the restart? What does that mean? Why are you taking arbitrary dates and appointing meaning to them?
The “since Bruno” table at least made some sense.

Last season we were the joint third/fouth best team, this season we are currently the joint 2nd/3rd best team, but most of us know that that’s due to Liverpool‘s injury issues.

Why make it more difficult than it needs to be @gerdm07

And let’s be honest, the only thing that matters here is what position we are in at the end of the season.

Useless table tbh and doesn’t truly reflect the quality of our squad. Games in empty stadiums mean one x-factor is removed from the equation that could decide games. Our away form for example has been lauded since we’ve recovered so many points from losing positions. Firstly, the fact we’re prone to giving up the first goal shows how poorly focused we are. Secondly, if there was a full house of opposing fans launching abuse at our players, I doubt we recover and come back in all of those games. This is a team with a reputation of bottling and some but for Bruno or Cavani would be shitting themselves when the pressure upticks going down a goal away from home.

 

[DoomSlayer]

I love Ole, I want him to succeed as our manager with all my heart. Hopefully, for everyone's sake, he starts making the needed tough decisions and continue with fixing the imbalances in the squad.

Our "spine" is still inconsistent and too error prone, we need a core of players that perform basically every game in order to win the big trophies. We lack a defensive leader, the goalkeeper has gone from best in the world to not even top 10 in the PL, our midfield is still imbalanced, as we only have one pure DM in Matic, who is over the hill and can barely play 1 game a week to a good standard. Just see how many times we have conceded first this season, it's a great testament to the ability of our attack to win so many games despite the regular defensive errors we've had.

 

[Bubz27]

Did we bottle the restart when we came from 6th place to finish 3rd? There was a lot of pressure during that period and the results speak for themselves.

Ooo we got third. Brilliant. Achieved our absolute minimum target of top 4. Brilliant. Please just ignore the 4 semi finals, that time we went from being top to potentially 10 points off top in 3 weeks and not qualifying out of a CL group when all we needed to do was beat (or even draw against!) Istanbul Basekshir.

 

[Dominos]

Enlighten me. Why?



It seems like they are coming back with these template of tweets, saying we have no progress.
These are expected, we are never going to win the title this season, and among all the other teams we are clearly the 2nd best team in the league right now.

That is progress.

We're on course for 73 points (up from 66 last year) - and couldn't get out the CL group stage.

It's progress but it's not great. And we can be mindful our points total is somewhat flattering given actual performances and statistical metrics.

Top 4 is definitely in danger with 2 wins in the last 7 and tough run of games to end the season. Ultimately we have to let him see it out because we're still in a position to meet the minimum of top 4 but let's not kid ourselves that it's a fantastic season.

 

[wolvored]

Enlighten me. Why?



It seems like they are coming back with these template of tweets, saying we have no progress.
These are expected, we are never going to win the title this season, and among all the other teams we are clearly the 2nd best team in the league right now.

That is progress.

Are we? On what metric do you say clearly?

 

[Ramshock]

#KloppOut was trending the other day ffs the world is full of impatient plastic toddler dickheads.

 

[Ramshock]

Are we? On what metric do you say clearly?

We may not be clearly the best but we aren't far off it this season. Would you care to tell me whether you think there has been progress and if not can you explain why?

 

[gerdm07]

Ooo we got third. Brilliant. Achieved our absolute minimum target of top 4. Brilliant. Please just ignore the 4 semi finals, that time we went from being top to potentially 10 points off top in 3 weeks and not qualifying out of a CL group when all we needed to do was beat (or even draw against!) Istanbul Basekshir.

I hear what you are saying. We are Manchester United and we have a divine right to be competing for titles every season and if we don't someone should be fired. You need to live in the real world.

 

[BR7]

Reading the supportive posts for ole is a bit strange when he clearly has no clue what to do with that defence. He’s had long enough but the unfortunate fact is those fans who support ole are only extending our years of misery ahead until we finally find the right man and Ole ain’t him.

A year ago it was give him time he’s doing xyz and a year on it’s now why can’t we just sit back and enjoy a club legend managing us!!!!????

errr no thanks, that maybe your little dream but I want united to win first and foremost and ole having a splendid time at Utd isn’t top of my priority list.

 

[Longshanks]

He hasn't got much to bring in either. I mean Axel has not been a revelation. Bailly is injured. The problem I have with him is not exactly our defense either.
It's that he is not playing to the strength of the players he have. It's impossible to play out of the back with a keeper like DeGea who is horrible in his kicking. Then you have such a slow CBs. How can you play a high line and press when the two CBs are so slow and then you have a keeper who doesn't come off his line? To add to this we have two midfielders who can't pass the ball more than 10 feet.
But we want to play a pressing game?
The biggest mistake was buying Maguire to play in this team. He is ideal for a Leicester or a Jose team.
Incidentally Leicester moves the ball a lot quicker than us and their movements off the ball are a lot quicker than us.

So basically what your saying is that we dont have the players to play to Oles philosophy consistently enough so he shouldn't use his philosophy, we should defend deep and counter attack.

I understand your thinking but that's what Ole did when he first took over whereas now he is clearly implementing his philosophy or trying to anyway, you are right though we dont have the players for it in some positions which is why hopefully he gets backed in the summer for a new CB to play alongside Maguire and maybe even a keeper? I dont think we are as desperate to upgrade midfield as anyone thinks and probably need a Top quality CF or RW depending on who we can get/afford.

 

[Bubz27]

I hear what you are saying. We are Manchester United and we have a divine right to be competing for titles every season and if we don't someone should be fired. You need to live in the real world.

Yeah that's exactly what I said. Superb inference skills there.

Any manager in the world going from top to 10 points off the top within a span of 5 games should be absolutely ridiculed, unless they're a manager of a club who was just happy to be top for a little while. "Ah he did a great job to have us top at all."

 

[TsuWave]

Dont be obtuse. Managing Man Utd is on the top of his CV now and no matter how you spin it, hes taken the club into a better spot than he found it when he got here.

Rose and Nagelsmann look like good/very good managers, but there is no guarantee they would do well here. Much bigger names have failed

Just trying to follow the line of reasoning. The Molde guy is doing a grand job apparently, but the guys at Leipzig and Monchengladbach (well, BvB in the future) would collapse under the weight of United, right?

 

[Smores]

Why isn't it an achievement to finish above Pool, Chelsea and Spurs? Most on here were of the opinion that we'll finish below atleast the former 2, and IIRC, a lot felt we might finish lower as we don't have a "proper" manager

Because unless they could see the future the comparison made in that judgement would be against a half decent Liverpool and as such a high benchmark of performance for ourselves. It's irrelevant what anyone thought in the summer, they were realities only in people's heads.

Your logic would dictate that we'd deserve praise for being above them even if they finished in the relegation spots because someone on caf thought they were good last summer.

Christ you must think Moyes is amazing since they've just gone above Liverpool

 

[UDontMessWith24]

3/4 of the arguments in his favor here are just cherry picked in a vacuum and can be easily refuted with context.

 

[James35]

We could finish 2nd and that still won't be good enough for Ole outers. They predicted us to finish 4th many of them but will want him sacked for possibly coming 2nd.

There's just no logic to it.

I don't know any Ole outer that feels that way personally, they are all believing the same as me in that he needs to go if he finishes out of the top 4.

It's pretty stupid to want him gone if we get top 4. I wouldnt be happy with it going on another season though and with no trophies, at least his two predecessors won them.

 

[anant]

Because unless they could see the future the comparison made in that judgement would be against a half decent Liverpool and as such a high benchmark of performance for ourselves. It's irrelevant what anyone thought in the summer, they were realities only in people's heads.

Your logic would dictate that we'd deserve praise for being above them even if they finished in the relegation spots because someone on caf thought they were good last summer.

Christ you must think Moyes is amazing since they've just gone above Liverpool

I mean, if you want to be pedantic about it then sure go ahead. I mean no one gave us a chance of 2nd, but that's where we are.

And changing the expectations mid-season, is what leads to every player manager, club underachieving in fan's opinion. I mean sure Pool have had injuries and that needs to be accounted for, but I'm pretty certain you were Ole out last season when we were missing players to injuries. Did you change the expectations from Ole accordingly? If you did, then fair enough, otherwise you're just a hypocrite.

And last I checked season still has 14 games left. If you consider the season as finished, then sure this season Moyes has performed better than Klopp.

 

[90 + 5min]

Enlighten me. Why?



It seems like they are coming back with these template of tweets, saying we have no progress.
These are expected, we are never going to win the title this season, and among all the other teams we are clearly the 2nd best team in the league right now.

That is progress.

Living in videogames world and not being connected to reality. Thinking the world is black or white and zero patience.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Maybe because a global pandemic has made it such that

March 13 to June 16 - No matches
June 17 to February 15 - 33 matches

But it’s still a different season, with different psychology at play. Certain teams came back after lockdown with nothing really to play for.

The only table that ever matters is the one at the end of each season, and sadly our end of season form which paints us nicely on that table, especially points per game, hasn’t been sustainable. We’ll have to see where we are after 38 games, hopefully we’re still at least the 3rd best side in the league then.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Why isn't it an achievement to finish above Pool, Chelsea and Spurs?

Depends on their points totals that, obviously.

It’s not an achievement to finish above a side that has less than 70 points, it’s the minimum anyone would expect.

 

[BluesJr]

10 points from 7 games is a complete joke tbf when we were flying. Not acceptable and he needs to know that isn’t good enough. We were never going to win the title but we were in a position to consolidate 2nd and now we are being sucked into a top four battle. Shambolic from both management and players.