Why the heck #OLEOUT is trending again?

[InfiniteBoredom]

Spot on. And no amount of

"He should be beating [insert shite team]!!11one!!" or "WE ARE MANCHESTER UNITED" is going to change that fact.

The most fecked up part is that people just want him sacked and dont really have an obvious replacement lined up. Allegri is Jose v2 and has not managed for two years now, and these young German managers...well managing Leipzig and Mogengladbach is not quite the same as managing Man Utd though is it?

Managing Molde and relegated Cardiff also isn’t quite the same as managing Man Utd.

All coaches have to start from somewhere. If you are not going for the top echelon due to stylistic differences then there will always be an inherent risk with appointing up and comers, but that’s no stick to beat them with when the current manager had even less credentials than them as a top flight coach before getting appointed due to club connection.

 

[Bebestation]

Managing Molde and relegated Cardiff also isn’t quite the same as managing Man Utd.

All coaches have to start from somewhere. If you are not going for the top echelon due to stylistic differences then there will always be an inherent risk with appointing up and comers, but that’s no stick to beat them with when the current manager had even less credentials than them as a top flight coach before getting appointed due to club connection.

I'm quite surprised Nagelsmann hasnt wont the Bundesliga yet.

Klopp did that with Dortmund so I dont see why it's hard for him at Leipzig where the foundations of the club has been built even before he was there.

Getting top 4 is good but it's not the same as managing United either.

He needs to do better.

 

[MU655]

I can see why people wouldn't be convinced. I mean, at the moment, we are on course for 72 points, which is only 6 better than last season. Considering that we only had Fernandes for half of last season, I think people were expecting more than that.

City is on course for 87 points at this point, so a gap of 15 points could exist. But with the way they are going, I wouldn't be surprised if they got into the 90s.

We may finish second, but is that a true sign of improvement or more a total collapse of Liverpool? I would point to the latter. Liverpool is on course to finish with fewer points than us last season (63), which is shocking and represents a 35 point drop.

Last season, we would finish a distance from second with 72 points, so I wouldn't say we have been much improved this season. We are scoring a lot more goals (on course for 79 goals, but we seem to be highly clinical - is this a sustainable level?), but we have almost conceded as many as last season (last season 36; this season 30 - on course to concede 47)

It also looks like we may once again be entering a period of difficulty. It seems to be becoming an all too frequent trend, unfortunately.

Overall, I would say there are some very big question marks still.

 

[tenpoless]

Are you really surprised? twitter is full of crap.
I swear every 1am-3am #MeHorny is always trending in my region.

 

[PoTMS]

I'm pretty confident we are not going to finish second so the only way I see this season as progress will be if we win a trophy. Going from 66 points to 70 points means feck all to me. The pathetic performance in the Champions League as well as another meagre semi final defeat already are major stains on the season. With the talent we have at our disposal and the loss of form of the teams around us, we really should be doing better and that should lie squarely at the feet of the manager.

 

[hobbers]

It's not a case that people want him sacked immediately, because finding the next manager will be difficult and fraught with the potential for another appointment feck up.

But people are genuinely crazy if they can't understand why the skepticism has come back with a vengeance given how we've reverted to type under Ole. That type being bottling every good position we find ourselves in. And that's before we get to the fact that our genuinely good performances this season have been countable on one hand. For the shitshows you would about need 3 sets of hands. Not an exaggeration.

Every time I see an example of what counts as progress it's utter nonsense as well. People genuinely trying to give Ole credit for clearing out deadwood.... Firstly, he isn't involved in that so if you want someone to praise it'd be Woodward and Judge. And reading that fact should hopefully have jolted people into realising that moving on players like Sanchez or Pereira, Rojo or Lingard, essentially for free, is necessary but not an achievement nor worthy of praise. That just being one example of "progress" under Ole that isn't really progress.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I'm quite surprised Nagelsmann hasnt wont the Bundesliga yet.

Klopp did that with Dortmund so I dont see why it's hard for him at Leipzig

It’s almost as though something changed since 2006 to 2012 when four different teams won the Bundesliga, Stuttgart, Wolfsburg, Bayern, & Dortmund.

 

[Desert Eagle]

So it was a mistake to sack those managers in your opinion?

I would have given lvg another year and mourinho was just too toxic at the end. His football was pretty much the same as ole though. It wasn't a mistake to sack them and it won't be a mistake to sack Ole. We try managers out and give them a couple years. That's more than enough time to know if they are worth keeping long term.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

I'm quite surprised Nagelsmann hasnt wont the Bundesliga yet.

Klopp did that with Dortmund so I dont see why it's hard for him at Leipzig where the foundations of the club has been built even before he was there.

Getting top 4 is good but it's not the same as managing United either.

He needs to do better.

In case this wasn’t sarcasm, Bayern being pretty mediocre during that period might had something to do with it.

Wolfsburg won it in 08-09, then LvG managed to win a double with Bayern in 09-10, the next season when Klopp first won it, Bayern wasn’t even the runner up, then they managed to bottle all 3 comps the next season.

After their treble in 12/13, they never looked back, and Klopp couldn’t compete. Dortmund were genuinely a great, exciting team then but they benefited a lot from a period of relative decline from the one club with overwhelming financial advantage in the league.

 

[meamth]

Do we actually play good football under Ole? I see this used as an argument in his defence and it rarely gets questioned, yet I don't agree with it at all. I'd say there's been a handful of games we've played well. Most games we win whilst playing bad, but come up with a moment mostly through Bruno. Others we win but don't deserve or just drop points all together. There's been loads of games we've won recently whilst playing poorly. I don't think we play good football at all - certainly not exciting football.

This is something I have given up fighting with the Oleouters.

Coming from LVG days, Ole does have brilliant attacking games under his belt.

If you're ole out, doesn't matter if we score 7-9 goals in a match, still ugly football.

 

[Desert Eagle]

I didn't ignore you calm down. People have shit to do. Its an online forum. Normal for hours to pass between replies.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

This is something I have given up fighting with the Oleouters.

Coming from LVG days, Ole does have brilliant attacking games under his belt.

If you're ole out, doesn't matter if we score 7-9 goals in a match, still ugly football.

This is like saying we should not be striving to eat something better than Macca because we were served only literal steaming pile of shit before.

 

[meamth]

I would have given lvg another year and mourinho was just too toxic at the end. His football was pretty much the same as ole though. It wasn't a mistake to sack them and it won't be a mistake to sack Ole. We try managers out and give them a couple years. That's more than enough time to know if they are worth keeping long term.

Oh god no. Just thinking about laying the mattress to watch the game is just...a fecking nightmare.
Feck LVG football.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

So you guys implying we should sack Ole after we have the best away run since I can't remember, in the middle of February?

How is that not a kneejerk reaction?

We don’t have to sack him. Hopefully we just wont renew his contract.

 

[tayside red]

Surely a top coach would have drilled the team and got the defence rock solid at the start of games, week after week or even game after game we are leaking poor early goals.
I don't see what Carrick gives us, he's been there with Moyes, LVG, Ryan, JM and Ole.
Surely he was part of the squads failure / under achieving with the other managers.
I don't see him encouraging or getting involved, or am I missing something.
Ole gives his all, but I just don't see the real problems we have being addressed week on week.

 

[padzilla]

It does not help that Ole keeps making baffling decisions like playing counter attacking football against teams set up to defend deep. The overwhelming majority of our football under Ole has been every bit as bad as under Jose or LVG but Ole gets a free pass from criticism because he is a good guy. There is no suggestion we are set up for anything other than challenging for the top four. If that is the goal of the club then fair enough but there are many fans who are not happy about that while there will be many who think it’s okay. At the end of the day I don’t think Ole is as good as many of our supporters would have you believe while he has also shown that he is not as bad as some are suggesting. It’s a grey area. If we do replace him it has to be with someone who is coming in to take us to the next level which is demanding we are in the shake up for major honours each season. I am yet to see Ole being the man to do that.

 

[Mainoldo]

This is something I have given up fighting with the Oleouters.

Coming from LVG days, Ole does have brilliant attacking games under his belt.

If you're ole out, doesn't matter if we score 7-9 goals in a match, still ugly football.

I still remember when Simone beat a team 7-0. David Villa was on fire and it was the most boring 7-0 i've ever seen.. the opposition team had 11 men too..

Goals and style of play have never been related.

 

[Cast5]

Be careful what wish for if Ole stays too long, he’s a dream for Woodward and the Glazers. Keep things ticking over, happy to be here, nice buffer between club and fans and not going to call them out or cause any problems.

I’ve accepted its not going to be great whether we keep or sack Ole, but I’d rather watch better football though.
This static and pragmatic approach which is too reliant on counter attacking is not as bad as Jose or LVG but still not good enough.

This is complete rubbish, a complete falsehood peddled by the Ole Out brigade. There was huge Glazer out protests outside Old Trafford when Ferguson was manager and he said they were good owners, far bigger protests than any of the hollow faceless, pointless twitter protests in recent years. None of those fans wanted Fergie out but they wanted the Glazers out. Was Ferguson a nice little buffer?

Same thing now, people who are behind Ole still want the Glazers and Woodward out the club, We were singing build a bomfire about Woodward under Ole, there was fans outside Woodward’s house not too long ago throwing flares under Ole. The idea that you can’t back Ole and hate Glazers is completely false. What do you want Ole to do? Come out and have a go at the Glazers like Fergie did? Oh wait.. He’s not stupid he knows all about them but he’s trying to do the best for United by working under them because they’re not going anywhere anytime soon.

it ties in with all this “Top red” rubbish that people who back Ole are Pro Glazer when it couldn’t be further from the truth. The Ole Out brigade use the Glazers to give Ole stick, where were all those fans years ago when we were winning things? Local fans were outside Old Trafford protesting the Glazers when the majority of the fan base didn’t even know they existed.

 

[RedDevilzFox]

Its going to be an unpopular opinion but I don't think we should be buying too many 18-20 yr old players. We need a better balance of older/younger players.

I am not sure we have the luxury of waiting for young players to come good. If they happen to come from academy that's fine but I would not spend a large amount buying 20 year old's from other clubs, unless they were genuinely and convincingly world class in the mold of Haaland. Need more signings in Bruno's age range IMO.

 

[Giggsy13]

At this moment, yes.

The best attack in the league belongs to city not us. They are able to breakdown teams with a low block with tactics and brilliance from their attacking players. We largely rely on Bruno. It’s not even close actually.

 

[James35]

Ole will surely have a minimum target just like our past managers, if the season ends now he would and should keep his job. However with three months to go and our usual drop off in performance and points taken he may find himself in a race not only for top 4 but to save his job.
The genuine Ole outers haven't gone away so no one should be surprised if it is trending on social media, I agree with some progress being shown but he will need to go if we fail to get top 4. If he wins a trophy and finishes 5th for example he will probably stay on mind.
However the club are not a charity for Ole or any manager for that matter, we are one of the biggest in the world, underachieving year after year and that still hasn't changed. In fact trophy wise it has regressed with Ole thus far.
Ole is being handicapped by the ownership and transfer policy as were the previous two managers but he does play on occasion more entertaining football however I still don't see a coherent plan in our football this past (almost) two and a half years. I'm also not surprised that our upturn in part was as much to do with Bruno as the manager himself, scary to think where we would be without him playing.

 

[elmo]

The only nice football we've played in a sustained period under Ole was his initial 11 games and that's nearly 2 years ago now.

Everything else we've watched is just mainly us struggling to break teams down while we play 2 defensive midfielders in almost every game like we're the underdogs against the likes of Sheffield United and WBA. If that's the definition of nice football that the fanboys think is nice, they need to get their head and eyes checked.

 

[crossy1686]

I don’t think anyone is suggesting that but I think it is fair to say there remain many who have yet to be convinced that Ole is the best man for the job. The lack of consistency and it either being a feast or famine every few weeks is not helping.

He's the best man for the job currently at hand, the actual best man for the job probably already has a job where he is the best man for the job there. This argument of "we need the best coach in the world, we're Manchester United!" is as absurd as the argument that Solskjaer needs the best players in the world to win something. What do people think Klopp or Pep would do if they got the job tomorrow?

"Put that cheque book away Ed and watch this as I blood Lingard and Pereria back into the first team and win the league!"

 

[Swedish_Plumber]

Twitter is by far the worst social media site for creating hatred and division. There’s no real surprise that after a few undesirable results he’a under pressure again.
We are an inconsistent team, we look wonderful in moments during matches but rarely control a whole game due to many different factors.
I feel Ole will know exactly what he needs to add to this squad, mentioning Halaand this week shows he needs a younger Cavani type. The defensive problems this year are a concern considering how stable we looked last season, but it needs improved.
All in all we will see quicker improvement sticking with Ole and a clear plan rather than sack and bring in another manager. That hasn’t worked for us so far and with the lack of options to replace Ole, I cant see it suddenly changing!

 

[Giggsy13]

This recent run of form does fall on Ole. He’s failed to incorporate VDB into the team, which is costing us now since Pogba’s injury. We should never be playing Fred and McT together in games against opposition like West Brom. Those on the extreme end of the Ole In debate should not forget that Fergie would never play two holding midfielders against the shit of the league.

Martial, Rashford and Greenwood have also regressed this season. While Ole can’t control their piss poor finishing, he can control the formation and tactics. Playing Fred and McT is not going to get the best out of these players. Having Bruno alone as a creative outlet against low block teams is clearly not working. VDB in place of Fred or McT should’ve been the formation from the start.

Also, we need to stop our CBs from making runs into the attacking third. It left us vulnerable in counter attacks and we would’ve easily lost this game but for poor counter attacking play by West Brom. Watching Maguire make runs into the box only goes to demonstrate how confused, aimless and useless our tactics are against teams who are set up to defend.

 

[Bobcat]

Good post, but come on, Nagelsmann is much more than just a random Leipzig and Mogengladbach manager, his methods look as clear cut as Klopp and Guardiola.
I’d be utterly amazed if he’s not a roaring success for whichever club is lucky enough to get him.

Fair enough, and honestly the day Ole leaves i want him to take over, because he really impresses me, but hes still very much unproven in terms of managing a top club hes still unproven.

 

[elmo]

Fair enough, and honestly the day Ole leaves i want him to take over, because he really impresses me, but hes still very much unproven in terms of managing a top club hes still unproven.

We took a bigger risk when signing Ole to be our manager and it didn't pay off.

 

[Bebestation]

In case this wasn’t sarcasm, Bayern being pretty mediocre during that period might had something to do with it.

Wolfsburg won it in 08-09, then LvG managed to win a double with Bayern in 09-10, the next season when Klopp first won it, Bayern wasn’t even the runner up, then they managed to bottle all 3 comps the next season.

After their treble in 12/13, they never looked back, and Klopp couldn’t compete. Dortmund were genuinely a great, exciting team then but they benefited a lot from a period of relative decline from the one club with overwhelming financial advantage in the league.

Didnt Bayern win the CL against Dortmund during the seasons Dortmund were winning and competing for the Bundesliga quite regularly?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Didnt Bayern win the CL against Dortmund during the seasons Dortmund were winning and competing for the Bundesliga quite regularly?

2012-2013, they won the league ahead of Klopp by 25 points that year @Bebestation , and they then went on to put Klopp out of a job and have utterly wiped the floor with the Bundesliga since, no-one besides Bayern has won it since 2013.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Didnt Bayern win the CL against Dortmund during the seasons Dortmund were winning and competing for the Bundesliga quite regularly?

No. They lost 2 finals during that period. When they won it in 12/13, they did the treble and won Bundesliga at a canter.

Bayern were genuinely quite bad during the second half of the 00s, found themselves in plenty of close races against Wolfsburg, Schalke, Bremen, Leverkusen, then Dortmund snuck in to win 2 titles before they finally woke up.

 

[Bebestation]

2012-2013, they won the league ahead of Klopp by 25 points that year @Bebestation , and they then went on to put Klopp out of a job and have utterly wiped the floor with the Bundesliga since, no-one besides Bayern has won it since 2013.

And who won the Bundesliga in 2012? I said the seasons not the season

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Bayern were genuinely quite bad during the second half of the 00s, found themselves in plenty of close races against Wolfsburg, Schalke, Bremen, Leverkusen, then Dortmund snuck in to win 2 titles before they finally woke up.

Even fecking Stuttgart got themselves a Bundesliga title in that period.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

And who won the Bundesliga in 2012? I said the seasons not the season

Bayern didn’t win the CL in 2012 though. They won it in 2013 and no, finishing 25 points behind aint competiting.
They utterly wiped the floor with Klopp and the league from 2013 onwards.

 

[Dec9003]

We failed to win against top 6, we failed to score against SU and WBA

Best attack in the league

We’ve scored in both fixtures against both of these sides this season.

 

[Bebestation]

Bayern didn’t win the CL in 2012 though.

I'm not sure what your talking about.

I'm talking about how Bayern were good enough for a CL in 2013 but lost to Dortmund in the Bundesliga in 2012.

I dont think Bayern were weak then, I think Dortmund grew to a standard they weren't expecting.

If Nagelsmann can do this against Bayern then great im interested in the hyper - but right now they are selling their players to Bayern directly.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I'm not sure what your talking about.

I'm talking about how Bayern were good enough for a CL in 2013 but lost to Dortmund in the Bundesliga in 2012.

Bayern finished 2012 on 73 points. They were crap.

Bayern 2012 and 2013-onwards aren’t remotely similar.

 

[Bebestation]

Bayern finished 2012 on 73 points. They were crap.

Bayern 2012 and 2013-onwards aren’t remotely similar.

And Dortmund were amazing because of Klopp. 2011 and 2012 table victories.

You can say that he did that because Bayern was crap (not true when you see how Klopp managed Liverpool and dominated the world).

Nagelsmann isnt even close to him.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

And Dortmund were amazing because if Klopp.

Dortmund were great, but none of their points totals would have won the league from 2013 onwards.

It’s like slagging Ole off for not winning the league yet because Raneiri won one.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

And Dortmund were amazing because of Klopp. 2011 and 2012 table victories.

You can say that he did that because Bayern was crap (not true when you see how Klopp managed Liverpool and dominated the world).

Nagelsmann isnt even close to him.

He won one Bundesliga with 75 points ffs. Wake up man, just admit the obvious, it was easier back then.

Now don’t get me wrong here, I think Klopp is probably the best manager in the World, because of what he’s managed at Liverpool, and I loved his Dortmund team. But make no mistake here, it was much easier back then in Germany, there are no ifs, buts or maybes.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

He won one Bundesliga with 75 points ffs. Wake up man, can Nagelsman win a league with any of the points totals Klopp’s Dortmund did? Erm, feck no, not close.

Tbf the Bundesliga only have 18 teams, so champions will naturally have a lower points total than other leagues champions.

That being said, pre and post 12/13 treble Bayern are two different animals. They got they foundation for dominance under LvG in 09/10, but it took them a few seasons to reach their peak, that’s undeniable.