Paul_Scholes18
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He would have won the CL with us I am sure about!
As long as his mate Tixi came too - then yes.Since he took over City they have spent 850m which is a insane amount but in that time we spend 700m and most here will agree we spent it awfully and gave it too the wrong managers etc. But if Pep came here instead and he spent 700m do you think we win the league ? Yes city had a better base when we started which helps aswell but I feel it is 100% a yes that he would of won the league with us.
This isn’t anything on Ole before anyone tries to say it is I actually feel LVG and Jose where the wrong people.
The reason I made the thread is in the Pep thread a lot are saying he should be winning the league etc with the money spent(which is true) but I feel he is that good of a manager.
Since Fergie left and Pep joined City the net spend of each club has been flipping each season where United sometimes spend more and then City sometimes spend more. City obviously have more in the bank to splurge if they absolutely need to but the actual spend has been relatively similar net spend wise after a quick glance at the figures.You didn't hear a lot of players of Barcelona saying that they were desperate to work under Pep, considering he was promoted from Barcelona B to first team manager during the actual career peak of the best group of players that football has ever seen. Pep could not have picked a more fortunate time to take over a club if he got to spend 100 years picking and choosing his moment to get it just right.
Iniesta, Xavi, Messi, Puyol, Busquets, Alves, Henry, Piqué, Abidal, Yaya Touré, Valdés, etc. This is a team you pick when you play Football Manager with cheatcodes.
Pep achieved great things with Barcelona. With a who's who of legends of the game at his disposal from day 1.
Pep did not achieve great things with Bayern Münich
Pep achieved domestic expectation with Manchester City.
He's a manager that plays good football when he can buy players from the top of the shelf and then a couple more.
It's completely fair to argue that Pep is not as much a result of his managerial ability as he is a result of having the best players of the game available to him.
Would he come here and transform the team into title winners? The thing I can say is that Pep has never come into a team that was not already expecting to win the title, having to build something from the ground up. He's always come to a table fully decked and have some cake too.
If they win the title they are the correct buys.Fernandinho, silva, Kompany, De bruyne, augero, Sterling.
His best and most critical players, he actually inherited.
However I’m most impressed with him this season which is actually odd because he’s found another way to win.
His buys actually haven’t been all that great.
But he won with what he has plus what he bought. And our board backs the manager, until they're proven to be duds. If ole can spend 300M you'd bet they won't say no to Guardiola, and whatever guardiola and his teams wants they'd be listened to virtue to their CV.I think you're going a little over the top there (though I wouldn't rule out that there are posts further back in this thread that justifies that).
As you point out yourself, Guardiola isn't the sort of manager who makes the best of what he has, he's the sort of manager who has a very clear and specific vision of how he wants his teams to play, and consequently he requires players who fit his vision. You are totally right that he deserves to get that kind of backing and control - indeed, it would seem a huge waste to hire a man like that if you're not prepared to give him that. You are also right that the has proven repeatedly that he is able to assemble great teams.
But the question here is a hypothetical - how would he do with this United team? The obvious reply to that would in my opinion be that this United team is not constructed to fit his vision. Though certainly it has a good few players he would seem likely stick with, you'd have to assume there'd be quite extensive changes over a period of time. In the mean time, I doubt they could play effectively the way he prefers his teams to play. But I have no doubt whatsoever that given time and resources, Pep would make United a winner, just like he made Barcelona, Bayern and City winners. The man's a genius.
And really, the digs at Ole are uncalled for. Unlike Pep, he inherited a squad with very large needs for upgrades and replacements at almost every position. Addressing them as quickly as any United manager needs to (just look at the level of patience in evidence around here...) is going to cost a lot of money, and there is no other way. Many of those needs are still unaddressed. Comparing spends between different managers and teams who are in very different places is really rather pointless.
The big differences is the teams inherited. AWB and Maguire was bought in a market that saw 20% annual player value inflation. Plus Harry's domestic location and contract drove his prce up. But there's no hiding that we've just made bad purchases the last years.Since Fergie left and Pep joined City the net spend of each club has been flipping each season where United sometimes spend more and then City sometimes spend more. City obviously have more in the bank to splurge if they absolutely need to but the actual spend has been relatively similar net spend wise after a quick glance at the figures.
Dias and Cancelo cost less than Maguire and AWB etc (I know there are examples the other way too!). There are many variables to the argument but Pep would definitely have had the resources to compete and win a title with United. He might have just used it differently.
He just happens to bring his friend (yes man) he trust not to be a moron and veto his purchase, they probably know what they're looking for and doesn't need much back and forth between them.Pep is one of (and probably the) best managers on the planet and we're a club that was willing to (and did) spend a small fortune on players. So all good there.
However, City's success isn't just about Pep, it's about their whole set up. It's not a coincidence that Pep went to City, the club was geared to his requirements to the extent that his old friends Bergstein and Soriano were waiting for him in advance.
If we were similarly built to suit him then of course he would have won the league with us. However, operating under Ed Woodward and our haphazard recruitment attempts may have been a different story. If the right players aren't coming in then there isn't much any manager can do.
Sure, if you ignore all the many reports and quotes by other manager that suggest Moyes wasn't our first choice, as well as quotes from SAF himself:
"I asked Pep to phone me before he accepted an offer from another club but he didn't and wound up joining Bayern Munich in July 2013. When we started the process of looking for my replacement, we established that several very desirable candidates were unavailable.
It became apparent that Jose Mourinho had given his word to Roman Abramovich that he would return to Chelsea and that Carlo Ancelotti would succeed him at Real Madrid. We also knew that Jurgen Klopp was happy at Borussia Dortmund and would be signing a new contract. Meantime, Louis van Gaal had undertaken to lead the Dutch attempt to win the 2014 World Cup. We chose David Moyes."
Not sure if serious.He would have won the CL with us I am sure about!
How do you know this?Fergie - by the way - is still riled and pissed off that United sacked Moyes. Had David Gill remained, there is no way Moyes would have been sacked... even if he finished 6th two years in a row... he was supposed to be there, like Fergie, to oversee a long-term strategy.... Fergie still can't believe Woodward sacked him for Van Gaal...
I think he would have, but hard to know.Not sure if serious.
How do you know this?
I'm not sure anyone would even suggest that Ole is a better manager than Pep!But he won with what he has plus what he bought. And our board backs the manager, until they're proven to be duds. If ole can spend 300M you'd bet they won't say no to Guardiola, and whatever guardiola and his teams wants they'd be listened to virtue to their CV.
How would he do with this united team? he'd get us playing like a proper european elite, we may be missing some key pieces, but he'll buy 2-3 more players and plug them, even if he doesn't always gets everything right he's bound to get more right in coaching what he has, and seeing what we need, and identifying players that would strengthen us.
Let's not forget that Ole actually changes the whole coaching squad, at the moment he has "butt, carrick, fletcher + Mckenna (inherited)", it's not like he's not given license to hire his own team.
I'm not having a dig at Ole, that's another thread. But I'm having a dig on people who's so biased they created a different scenario on how Ole is better than Pep, and how pep is bound to fail with us. It's like can Messi does it in cold Britannia all over again. It's actually embarrassing. There's no shame in saying Pep is a great coach and believing he'd won something with us.
Pep actively pursued Maguire. They just weren't willing to meet the asking price. No one could have handled the Pogba situation better than Ole has, and Pep, just like any other manager, would have been constrained by the shortage of alternatives in the squad in the management of Martial. He may be great, but he doesn't have a magic wand.He just happens to bring his friend (yes man) he trust not to be a moron and veto his purchase, they probably know what they're looking for and doesn't need much back and forth between them.
Can you imagine if pep wants Laporte and Ole as DOF (what if scenario) tells him to go after "British value" Maguire?
He's also not shackled by some "united way" bullshit, and pogba won't dare pull this stunt against Pep, martial will not be given chance after chance, he'd be booted off the door as soon as he stops running.
Not sure what you're arguing against here, but it doesn't seem to be the points I raised. Pep's got a system. More than a system, a whole way of approaching football, that requires not just full buy-in and a full understanding from his players, but a very specific skillset. Hence, it requires a squad that can implement it. United's squad is not constructed to those demands, and would not meet them. He'd have to reconctruct the squad significantly. I've no doubt the board would provide resources (they'd be idiots to hire Pep if they weren't, and Pep would never sign if he wasn't convinced they would). But it would take time. That's all. I've no doubt he'd transform United into a title winner if given the time and resources necessary. Nor that if he'd gotten the job when SAF retired, there would have been titles by now.But he won with what he has plus what he bought. And our board backs the manager, until they're proven to be duds. If ole can spend 300M you'd bet they won't say no to Guardiola, and whatever guardiola and his teams wants they'd be listened to virtue to their CV.
How would he do with this united team? he'd get us playing like a proper european elite, we may be missing some key pieces, but he'll buy 2-3 more players and plug them, even if he doesn't always gets everything right he's bound to get more right in coaching what he has, and seeing what we need, and identifying players that would strengthen us.
Let's not forget that Ole actually changes the whole coaching squad, at the moment he has "butt, carrick, fletcher + Mckenna (inherited)", it's not like he's not given license to hire his own team.
I'm not having a dig at Ole, that's another thread. But I'm having a dig on people who's so biased they created a different scenario on how Ole is better than Pep, and how pep is bound to fail with us. It's like can Messi does it in cold Britannia all over again. It's actually embarrassing. There's no shame in saying Pep is a great coach and believing he'd won something with us.
He hasn't won the CL in 10 years and that was with Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and co. He couldn't win it with Bayern, the team he inherited after they had just won the treble and had Ribery, Robben, Lewandowski and Thiago. He has spent more with City than United have in that same time and that is whilst inheriting top players such as Aguero, KDB, Kompany and David Silva.I think he would have, but hard to know.
Good point though, most of people here are unaware of Begiristain's long term project to hire his old pal Pep for Man city.Pep working closely with Woodward and judge, what could go wrong
Nice fan fiction.That was Fergie covering himself after the Moyes era turned into a mess.
You think he didn't wanna sign Klopp because 'he was happy at Dortmund and might be signing a new contract'.
He did NOT offer the job to Jose.
He did NOT offer the job to Pep.
He did NOT offer the job to Klopp.
And none of those quotes above suggest he did. Because he didn't.
Moyes was always the choice.
The above quotes are aftermath quotes. ANd they don't suggest he ever offered any one the job other than David Moyes...
I heard there's a new book coming out in September about Alex Ferguson and it will detail why he opted for Moyes over all these guys... and the reason is as I have explained; Fergie thought a Klopp, Pep, or Jose would only manage for their time in charge... 3 years... they wouldn't utilise the whole football club (acadmies etc), that they would only concentrate on the first team over one contract (ie, three years). He didn't wanna throw away everything he had spent 25 years setting up.. so he opted for a long-term manager who had proven to evolve teams over 11 years... not a manager who manages one team for three years only and doesn't evolve them. I think the book is just gonna be called 'Alex'.
Fergie - by the way - is still riled and pissed off that United sacked Moyes. Had David Gill remained, there is no way Moyes would have been sacked... even if he finished 6th two years in a row... he was supposed to be there, like Fergie, to oversee a long-term strategy.... Fergie still can't believe Woodward sacked him for Van Gaal...
I think he would have a more suited squad for CL here. Although it depend on his transfers.He hasn't won the CL in 10 years and that was with Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and co. He couldn't win it with Bayern, the team he inherited after they had just won the treble and had Ribery, Robben, Lewandowski and Thiago. He has spent more with City than United have in that same time and that is whilst inheriting top players such as Aguero, KDB, Kompany and David Silva.
If he couldn't win the CL with them teams then in what world would he win it with United? Ridiculous statement to be honest.
How can a manger have a more suited squad when he has spent more money there than United have in the same time. I know it is an opinion but opinions can sometimes be crazy.I think he would have a more suited squad for CL here. Although it depend on his transfers.
I think he would have better chance then at City here just my opinion.
I'm not disputing Klopp could win the title at United if he came to us instead of Liverpool. But to dismiss Pep is unbelievable I think. Pep is a fantastic coach, yes he's had extra resources, but he has also been more dominant in every trophy bar the champions league. City last season fell away a bit, but with a couple of smart signings mainly Dias, he has turned it around and IMO I think this City side might become the greatest City side. There's just a balance in that squad that is near perfect and they are dominating every game they play whether it's Klopps Liverpool, Mourinhos Spurs and I fear Oles United when we play them shortly.No I don’t think so. Klopp on the other hand? Absolutely no doubt we would have another title. We should have got him before Liverpool and boy have we lived to regret it.
But winning the league without KDB proves my point. He doesnt just need top players in the 11 but top players behind those as well.No, it wasn't neglected.
We signed Fellaini for 27 million, Herrera for 30 million, Schneiderlin for 25 million, Bastian for 6 million and also Blind for 14 million before signing Pogba and that;s in just 3 summer windows.
Ibra was not a cheap transfer, he was highest paid player in the league and also insane signing on fee. Mkhi was signed for 26-30 million which was a big transfer fee back then.
He also won league title with KdB missing whole season, he won league title with players like Otamendi and Stones as CBs.
We spent 89 million on Pogba and then spent 50 million on Fred, we spent 35-40 million on Lindelof, Bailly and then spent 80 million on Maguire. So why wouldn't we spend on another LB?
We have spent shit loads of money but always had inferior managers. Do the same thing with managers like Pep, Klopp then we will win titles. It's not even controversial thing or illogical thing, better managers have better chances of winning the league. Considering Pep and Klopp are top 2 managers in the league, chances are very high that they would have won the league.
Btw we have spent insane amount to replace ageing players just like any other club.
He still had to break GK+CB transfer records.Agreed. Pep had always had jobs where he had the best squad and virtually an open cheque book. What Klopp did with Liverpool was much more impressive
Our unbalanced and fecked up squad is because we hire the wrong manager. If we hire klopp half of the mess wont be there in the first place.Pep actively pursued Maguire. They just weren't willing to meet the asking price. No one could have handled the Pogba situation better than Ole has, and Pep, just like any other manager, would have been constrained by the shortage of alternatives in the squad in the management of Martial. He may be great, but he doesn't have a magic wand.
Not sure what you're arguing against here, but it doesn't seem to be the points I raised. Pep's got a system. More than a system, a whole way of approaching football, that requires not just full buy-in and a full understanding from his players, but a very specific skillset. Hence, it requires a squad that can implement it. United's squad is not constructed to those demands, and would not meet them. He'd have to reconctruct the squad significantly. I've no doubt the board would provide resources (they'd be idiots to hire Pep if they weren't, and Pep would never sign if he wasn't convinced they would). But it would take time. That's all. I've no doubt he'd transform United into a title winner if given the time and resources necessary. Nor that if he'd gotten the job when SAF retired, there would have been titles by now.
Pep won three league titles in a row there. That happened only once in 30 years before he joined Bayern.Pep did not achieve great things with Bayern Münich
It’s a complete fallacy that to achieve that kind of success you could do it on a budget. Klopp spent what he felt he needed to, City have spent far more to get where they are. The spend it with them doesn’t appear to be endingHe still had to break GK+CB transfer records.