Shamima Begum, IS teen wants to come back to the UK

[starman]

I mean he also thinks Andrew Neil is a liberal, so.

Another idiot that doesn't understand the many forms of liberalism, and just goes by the one he reads on twitter

 

[hobbers]

Sorry, but this is totally misconstruing the argument.

People don't want her back to give her a pat on the back, and a cup of tea.

They want her back to be tried in a British court of law, and a sentence passed under British law.

What the government has done so far is just totally abdicate on that, render her stateless which in reality means another country will have to deal with her.

No, what you've done there is just misconstrue my question.

The legal arguments are one issue and nobody here can properly unpick them.

The moral arguments revolving in this thread seem to be whether a 15 year old can be fully responsible for their actions, whether the government is responsible for someone being radicalised, and whether the individual rights of one person should trump the responsibilities of a government to keep its people safe.

 

[dannyrhinos89]

Brilliant news, hopefully she is left to rot.

The Only people that want her back are your typical do Gooders, there’s loads of Muslims where I work and all of them fully support this decision So it seems Muslims don’t even want her back.

 

[Widow]

4. Identification requirements
All children under the age of eighteen are not required to provide identification to purchase a ticket, to get a boarding pass or to get past the security.

However, the adults who are responsible for the child must have the required identification. Most airlines require the government-issued photo ID. The person is also needed to fill the unaccompanied form and all the immigration documents at the airport. The following information is, however, necessary when making any reservation;

• The child's full names
• The child's address
• The relationship with the child
• Child's date of birth
• Information about the parents or guardians dropping off or picking up the child
• Alternative contact for a person in the destination

My point is that a 15 year old should not be able to book a ticket and leave the country without their parent or guardian’s knowledge.

Didn't she use her older sisters passport though?

 

[Barnslig]

4. Identification requirements
All children under the age of eighteen are not required to provide identification to purchase a ticket, to get a boarding pass or to get past the security.

However, the adults who are responsible for the child must have the required identification. Most airlines require the government-issued photo ID. The person is also needed to fill the unaccompanied form and all the immigration documents at the airport. The following information is, however, necessary when making any reservation;

• The child's full names
• The child's address
• The relationship with the child
• Child's date of birth
• Information about the parents or guardians dropping off or picking up the child
• Alternative contact for a person in the destination

My point is that a 15 year old should not be able to book a ticket and leave the country without their parent or guardian’s knowledge.

So how would you solve that? A checkbox for them to tick saying "Parents said yes", or do you want the airline calling their parents? Or should they notify the government and the government notify the parents?

 

[oates]

I don't necessarily disagree with you, however I have very little sympathy for people that have aided a terror regime create one of the worst humanitarian crises we've had in recent history.

What do you mean by your last sentence?

I've no sympathy for the girl, i merely get annoyed with this Home Office in the UK shirking their responsibilities.

What I meant was that if this becomes common practice around the world we should all start worrying about our Citizenship Status if our own governments just can't be arsed.

 

[Gehrman]

I mean he also thinks Andrew Neil is a liberal, so.

He's a classic liberal, which has another meaning than what liberal means in UK and US these days. Here in Denmark a liberal is a liberalist.

 

[Widow]

I'm only replying to your statements, none of my questions have been unreasonable.

I'm sorry you lost a friend. However I don't think I've seen anyone advocate let alone myself that Begum ne brought back and thrown a parade. Far from it, those I've seen questioning this courts decision have stated that she should face the charges and submit to justice. Got Sweet FA to do with how comfortable her bed was which I contend hasn't been a 16 mattress jobby, still got feck all to do with Britain facing up to its responsibilities and not trying to foist them on another country who conveniently just could be something to do with her ancestry.

The UK believe they have used the law to remove her citizenship. The law is there to be applied or there would be no point in having it.

I've no sympathy for the girl, i merely get annoyed with this Home Office in the UK shirking their responsibilities.

What I meant was that if this becomes common practice around the world we should all start worrying about our Citizenship Status if our own governments just can't be arsed.

What about the HO responsibility to the rest of its citizens? Allowing her back in could endanger lives, it's an argument that carries weight.

 

[oates]

Brilliant news, hopefully she is left to rot.

The Only people that want her back are your typical do Gooders, there’s loads of Muslims where I work and all of them fully support this decision So it seems Muslims don’t even want her back.

Yeah, chuck in some generalising, some hyperbole and you've got yourself a bigoted post, congrats.

 

[Barnslig]

I've no sympathy for the girl, i merely get annoyed with this Home Office in the UK shirking their responsibilities.

What I meant was that if this becomes common practice around the world we should all start worrying about our Citizenship Status if our own governments just can't be arsed.

I mean it's a very small sample size though isn't it? People leaving their home country to go fight for IS. I'd be worried if I was thinking about joining them.

Didn't IS claim to be a country at one point? Wouldn't false flag laws come into play then?

 

[oates]

The UK believe they have used the law to remove her citizenship. The law is there to be applied or there would be no point in having it.




What about the HO responsibility to the rest of its citizens? Allowing her back in could endanger lives, it's an argument that carries weight.

Absolutely, no point in having it if it doesn't suit you in carrying out your responsibilities. Still, missed out the rest of the post....

 

[starman]

He's a classic liberal, which has another meaning than what liberal means in UK and US these days. Here in Denmark a liberal is a liberalist.

Don't bother explaining it, as soon as people see the word liberal they fixate on it in accordance to what formulated in their own minds

 

[oates]

I mean it's a very small sample size though isn't it? People leaving their home country to go fight for IS. I'd be worried if I was thinking about joining them.

Didn't IS claim to be a country at one point? Wouldn't false flag laws come into play then?

Oh, you think this could just apply to ISIS and their acolytes?

 

[Widow]

Absolutely, no point in having it if it doesn't suit you in carrying out your responsibilities. Still, missed out the rest of the post....

No, I just found it pointless!

 

[Barnslig]

Oh, you think this could just apply to ISIS and their acolytes?

I doubt a country would strip you of your citizenship for jaywalking

 

[oates]

No, I just found it pointless!

I was talking about the second part of yours...

Obviously you are one of those people who don't put much store in responsibility.

 

[utdalltheway]

4. Identification requirements
All children under the age of eighteen are not required to provide identification to purchase a ticket, to get a boarding pass or to get past the security.

However, the adults who are responsible for the child must have the required identification. Most airlines require the government-issued photo ID. The person is also needed to fill the unaccompanied form and all the immigration documents at the airport. The following information is, however, necessary when making any reservation;

• The child's full names
• The child's address
• The relationship with the child
• Child's date of birth
• Information about the parents or guardians dropping off or picking up the child
• Alternative contact for a person in the destination

My point is that a 15 year old should not be able to book a ticket and leave the country without their parent or guardian’s knowledge.

She got radicalized and left to join ISIS. Whether she flew out there or was smuggled in the back of a truck is not the state's fault. Nor is it her parents fault.
She was the feckin eejit and it seems she still is.

 

[oates]

I doubt a country would strip you of your citizenship for jaywalking

Is you 11 years old?

 

[Barnslig]

Is you 11 years old?

I is not

 

[oates]

I is not

But you is acting like it bro.

 

[Barnslig]

But you is acting like it bro.

Haha, okay mate. Nothing more to add to the debate? Do you honestly think the UK stripping a terrorist that has acted against the UK will set a presendent for countries to strip people of their citizenship willy nilly?

 

[Pexbo]

Didn't she use her older sisters passport though?

Right, so she was failed by the system.

So how would you solve that? A checkbox for them to tick saying "Parents said yes", or do you want the airline calling their parents? Or should they notify the government and the government notify the parents?

Do you want me to pull a solution to a complex problem out my arse? The point is that there needs to be better system in place to avoid this happening.

She got radicalized and left to join ISIS. Whether she flew out there or was smuggled in the back of a truck is not the state's fault. Nor is it her parents fault.
She was the feckin eejit and it seems she still is.

Did you take the same attitude with the children groomed in Rotherham? Or is it because she’s got dark skin that you think she is naturally predisposed to these thoughts and therefore her own fault that she was taken in by these people? She was 14 for feck sake.

 

[Widow]

I was talking about the second part of yours...

Obviously you are one of those people who don't put much store in responsibility.

Incorrect.

I'm responsible for three children and two hundred employees.

I know all about it!

I suspect you are narrow minded and unable to listen to views that don't align with your own.

 

[Barnslig]

Incorrect.

I'm responsible for three children and two hundred employees.

I know all about it!

I suspect you are narrow minded and unable to listen to views that don't align with your own.

Maybe he are 11 years old

 

[Widow]

Right, so she was failed by the system.

Really? So if I defraud the bank, its their fault for having a failed system? I'm therefore innocent?

 

[Widow]

Maybe he are 11 years old

I'm beginning to wonder

 

[Barnslig]

Really? So if I defraud the bank, its their fault for having a failed system? I'm therefore innocent?

Or if you went to the other side of the world and helped kill a bunch of people, but the airline didn't catch you commiting identity fraud and as such you're innocent

 

[oates]

Incorrect.

I'm responsible for three children and two hundred employees.

I know all about it!

I suspect you are narrow minded and unable to listen to views that don't align with your own.

Oh give it a rest, go and have a cry about it again.

In the context of Britain not passing their responsibilities onto a completely unrelated country and not how many people you 'ave working for you, you would rather advocate that it is not the host country of its citizen when she left the country and offended against their laws you have no clue.

 

[oates]

Maybe he are 11 years old

Yeah, because I don't bring up how many people I have working for me and also this is the best you can come up with

 

[Pexbo]

Really? So if I defraud the bank, its their fault for having a failed system? I'm therefore innocent?

The banks shareholders will certainly hold the bank responsible. If the bank then decided that it was easier to just expel the person who committed fraud rather than deal with them which left it down to another bank to pick up responsibility then the other banks would rightfully be annoyed.

 

[Barnslig]

Yeah, because I don't bring up how many people I have working for me and also this is the best you can come up with

I like how me using your joke is "the best I can come up with". Jesus you leftists are a special breed.

 

[Widow]

Oh give it a rest, go and have a cry about it again.

In the context of Britain not passing their responsibilities onto a completely unrelated country and not how many people you 'ave working for you, you would rather advocate that it is not the host country of its citizen when she left the country and offended against their laws you have no clue.

Finally spat your dummy out, mardy t*#t

 

[Widow]

The banks shareholders will certainly hold the bank responsible. If the bank then decided that it was easier to just expel the person who committed fraud rather than deal with them which left it down to another bank to pick up responsibility then the other banks would rightfully be annoyed.

But I would still be responsible in the eyes of the law, correct? I would have to take some responsibility.

 

[oates]

I like how me using your joke is "the best I can come up with". Jesus you leftists are a special breed.

I like how much I'm living in your tiny mind.

Finally spat your dummy out, mardy t*#t

Hahahaha

Keep crying.

 

[utdalltheway]

Right, so she was failed by the system.



Do you want me to pull a solution to a complex problem out my arse? The point is that there needs to be better system in place to avoid this happening.



Did you take the same attitude with the children groomed in Rotherham? Or is it because she’s got dark skin that you think she is naturally predisposed to these thoughts and therefore her own fault that she was taken in by these people? She was 14 for feck sake.

you seem intent on blaming others for her actions.
She knew right from wrong.
Kindergarten kids know right from wrong.
She made shitty choices and now she has to live with the consequences.
The ones I feel bad for are the victims of ISIS and her family. It's got nothing to do with skin colour.

 

[Barnslig]

I like how much I'm living in your tiny mind.


Hahahaha

Keep crying.

Comebacks weaker than Shamima's human rights

 

[Pexbo]

you seem intent on blaming others for her actions.
She knew right from wrong.
Kindergarten kids know right from wrong.
She made shitty choices and now she has to live with the consequences.
The ones I feel bad for are the victims of ISIS and her family. It's got nothing to do with skin colour.

So who’s responsibility is she? Who has to deal with the fallout of her actions?

 

[FlawlessThaw]

But if she's eligible for Bangladeshi citizenship she's not stateless?

But she doesn't have Bangladeshi citizenship as she neither applied and has been granted one and is likely to be granted one by Bangladesh. So if we strip her of citizenship she is stateless.

 

[oates]

Comebacks weaker than Shamima's human rights

blah blah blah

There's an age minimum requirement here y'know

 

[Widow]

I like how much I'm living in your tiny mind.


Hahahaha

Keep crying.

You sound mad