From the Kurdish thread above referring to the jihadi women.One of the camp’s directors says that although some of the women claim to be innocent of any crime, others are clearly very dangerous.
“We thought we could put them together with the Syrians and the Iraqis, and that they would adapt. But they’re ferocious, they burned some of the Syrians’ tents, they would call them cockroaches, infidels. They consider themselves as the only true Muslims. So we had to separate them,” he explains.
“The problem is their intentions, they tell us what we want to hear, but we have no idea about what they really think. That’s a problem that must be addressed by experts. When they gave themselves up, some of them told us that the IS group briefed them, telling them, ‘Surrender, go back to your countries, get your strength back and we will start again’.”
https://amp.france24.com/en/2019020...-syria-kurdish-camp?__twitter_impression=true
Leaving someone to their misery caused by their own actions is not punishing them. I'm not sure how you equate those two. Punishing is inflicting extra misery on top delivered by the hand of Justice. You can help, punish or leave someone be and all 3 are different.Well as I always remind myself I am frequently wrong but looking over these pages it does kind of jump out to me that everyone seems to be focusing on punishing her. There's let her rot, leave her to her misery, my own personal favourite, let someone find her in a ditch and the more usual, just punish.
It doesn't leave a lot if any room for her and those like her, well anyone who thinks wrong to rehabilitate - to perhaps one day attempt to make amends - bring about some reconciliation. Be a better person. At least not teach others that hate is all there is because that just goes around and around.
Rehabilitation doesn't particularly mean - to my mind - making healthy and well - although maybe that is part of it. Perhaps her/their minds are damaged/not healthy. To me Rehabilitation means helping someone to become a contributing member of society and culture - stuff surrounding that I guess.From the Kurdish thread above referring to the jihadi women.
One thing I would like to ask about here is that I am frequently seeing the word rehabilitate. Now if that means make her well and healthy that’s fine. If people using it are meaning something else can they please explain what that something else is that they mean by “rehabilitate”.
Well maybe, to others it means Don't get caught or make sure it is worth it.Leaving someone to their misery caused by their own actions is not punishing them. I'm not sure how you equate those two. Punishing is inflicting extra misery on top delivered by the hand of Justice. You can help, punish or leave someone be and all 3 are different.
On the point of rehabilitation, I'm not opposed to it but she's not someone who's only a threat to her self. She needs to be sequestered until rehabilitated.
And you still are not addressing the fact that some form of punishment also works as a deterrent for others. It's partly what the legal system is based on.
I’m willing to spare my some sympathy if she geniunely was groomed or manipulated and if she actually feels immense and regret.I've plenty of compassion, enough for everyone perhaps.
She seems completely unremorseful and is now altering her story in order to try and sound like a more appealing proposition. At the very least, she actively supported a regime that went house to house murdering women and children. For all we know, she might have been even more involved on some level. Now she wants sympathy because she's a young mother, yet doesn't care about her husband's comrades killing other mothers and children.There are a lot of rehabilitation programs failing to be achieved while prisons are underfunded but you are right, it is a different topic but I hoped someone might see the point.
Most people commenting here agree on punishing this girl. It is what we do but it does little to change anyone subject to being warehoused for however long their sentence is. But that isn't the point is it? We just want punishing and this girl is the object of that punishing.
Christ, with that "true Muslim" mentality programmed into them, they're even going to be a big danger to the other Muslims in their communities back home if they ever return.From the Kurdish thread above referring to the jihadi women.
One thing I would like to ask about here is that I am frequently seeing the word rehabilitate. Now if that means make her well and healthy that’s fine. If people using it are meaning something else can they please explain what that something else is that they mean by “rehabilitate”.
Let's find out rather than suppose. She's a very silly girl who thinks we are going to believe a different story, do you think we should get the true story? Well, no you don't and we disagree.She seems completely unremorseful and is now altering her story in order to try and sound like a more appealing proposition. At the very least, she actively supported a regime that went house to house murdering women and children. For all we know, she might have been even more involved on some level. Now she wants sympathy because she's a young mother, yet doesn't care about her husband's comrades killing other mothers and children.
I understand that people want to demonstrate that we're a more progressive society and we can forgive and show leniency etc, but I've yet to see anything in her interviews that convinces me of her willingness to reintegrate into western culture.
She's a tiny fraction of the cost we spend on a lot of people but could she and others return under their own powers? Still holding these views and with the capacity to kill? How much money should we have spent to protect those people?I don't want to punish her. I just don't want her back in this country, although that probably equates to punishment in some people's minds. Prison is often cited as a breeding ground for radical idealism and I don't believe we have the systems/resources in place to successfully deradicalise her. There was a recent high profile case where a chap was attending deradicalisation programmes whilst plotting terror attacks. Our prevent programme is about to be reviewed, which is never a good sign!
https://news.sky.com/story/terror-p...-as-prevent-deradicalisation-meeting-11598057
I can only see her return as a huge drain on resources trying to keep tabs on her 24/7 for x amount of years.
So your solution is that it should be the Kurds or Turks that should do it?She seems completely unremorseful and is now altering her story in order to try and sound like a more appealing proposition. At the very least, she actively supported a regime that went house to house murdering women and children. For all we know, she might have been even more involved on some level. Now she wants sympathy because she's a young mother, yet doesn't care about her husband's comrades killing other mothers and children.
I understand that people want to demonstrate that we're a more progressive society and we can forgive and show leniency etc, but I've yet to see anything in her interviews that convinces me of her willingness to reintegrate into western culture.
I don't want to punish her. I just don't want her back in this country, although that probably equates to punishment in some people's minds. Prison is often cited as a breeding ground for radical idealism and I don't believe we have the systems/resources in place to successfully deradicalise her. There was a recent high profile case where a chap was attending deradicalisation programmes whilst plotting terror attacks. Our prevent programme is about to be reviewed, which is never a good sign!
https://news.sky.com/story/terror-p...-as-prevent-deradicalisation-meeting-11598057
I can only see her return as a huge drain on resources trying to keep tabs on her 24/7 for x amount of years.
I don't quite understand what you mean here. She already seemed quite unfazed by casually mentioning heads in bins. There was some other reference to enemies of Islam used to justify killing, but I can't remember the exact context. That in my opinion reflects the true story, rather than the softer approach in subsequent interviews, probably inspired by the lawyer her family have appointed.Let's find out rather than suppose. She's a very silly girl who thinks we are going to believe a different story, do you think we should get the true story? Well, no you don't and we disagree.
I agree she could return under her own powers, and if she does we'll have to deal with it. Although the result will probably be the same, jail and/or surveillance. I also agree that we spend a lot of money on a lot of threats for a myriad of reasons, not just terror but that's not an excuse to willingly take on another one is it?She's a tiny fraction of the cost we spend on a lot of people but could she and others return under their own powers? Still holding these views and with the capacity to kill? How much money should we have spent to protect those people?
I don't really have a solution. Technically her crimes were on foreign soil, but there isn't a stable enough situation in place for her to be dealt with where she is. She's technically our responsibility as a British citizen, but at the same time a very real threat to our citizens due to her beliefs.So your solution is that it should be the Kurds or Turks that should do it?
Shuh-my-muh.how do you pronounce shamima
The Bangladeshis I've known have pronounced it Sher-me-mer, first and last sounds rhyme with herShuh-my-muh.
I don't think it makes any difference who brings them back, the result would be the same.There are apparently some that have returned already, you have to assume or hope that MI5 have an eye on them occasionally. If we leave her - and them where they are do they come back under their own steam eventually, helped by families or smugglers, still holding their damaging, dangerous and hateful views? Or do we tidy up our mess, our moral and legal duty to do and along the way discover what made them believe what they believed, how they were influenced - all that stuff that might prevent more of our people, our citizens from creating more damage? I believe we have at least a legal duty to sort this and a moral one to improve the situation. We have a mixed unjust society and a lot more young people who could do with growing up without the hate.
Yeah I've also heard that one. Depends if you're Pakistani or Bengali I thinkThe Bangladeshis I've known have pronounced it Sher-me-mer, first and last sounds rhyme with her
Fantastic. So would you be happy if she moved into the house next door to you? What if she became a teacher for your children or a colleague for you or family?The Bangladeshis I've known have pronounced it Sher-me-mer, first and last sounds rhyme with her
More like sha-me-maThe Bangladeshis I've known have pronounced it Sher-me-mer, first and last sounds rhyme with her
Bit of wierd tangent given what you quotedFantastic. So would you be happy if she moved into the house next door to you? What if she became a teacher for your children or a colleague for you or family?
I don't understand why some are pussy-footing around the fact, and it is a fact, that she must be considered very dangerous to us. No matter what she ever says to the contrary, she cannot be trusted. To trust her in our society would be negligence.
You have a big heart.Bit of wierd tangent given what you quoted
It wouldn't bother me if she did
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Have they made her stateless, then, or does she have a second nationality?Tweet
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And all at the expense of UK tax payer! There are hundreds just like her looking to come back. Letting her stroll back In to the country would set a dangerous precedence.I have been reading about her and I personally feel that Britain should take her back along with her coming baby . The child should be given to her parents and relatives after birth while she should be sent to a mental facility for a de radicalisation programme . After completing the programme she should be put to trial for her deeds along with her passport fraud and she should serve time in prison preferably atleast 5 years . She needs to pay for her misconduct and extreme views .
All this punishment should be given keeping in mind that she did all this when she was a minor .
They’ve done it on the basis that she qualifies for Bangladeshi citizenship I’d guess. Was reading earlier that they revoked Aqsa Mahmood’s citizenship because she can get it from Pakistan.Have they made her stateless, then, or does she have a second nationality?
Already has it or can apply for it? Can't imagine that would be an easy meeting in Bangladesh.They’ve done it on the basis that she qualifies for Bangladeshi citizenship I’d guess. Was reading earlier that they revoked Aqsa Mahmood’s citizenship because she can get it from Pakistan.
And why should Bangladesh or Pakistan take any responsibility for those delinquents?They’ve done it on the basis that she qualifies for Bangladeshi citizenship I’d guess. Was reading earlier that they revoked Aqsa Mahmood’s citizenship because she can get it from Pakistan.
What if Bangladesh don't want to give her citizenship? I mean why would they?They’ve done it on the basis that she qualifies for Bangladeshi citizenship I’d guess. Was reading earlier that they revoked Aqsa Mahmood’s citizenship because she can get it from Pakistan.
Does that concern you?What if Bangladesh don't want to give her citizenship? I mean why would they?
Not really. I'm just interested. As far I know, they're not obligated to give her citizenshipDoes that concern you?
Kids not born yet. When he/she is born she'll not be born to a British citizen, so I guess won't qualify for British citizenship. Any lawyers in here who can confirm this?Wonder what it means for the kid?
Baby has been bornKids not born yet. When he/she is born she'll not be born to a British citizen, so I guess won't qualify for British citizenship. Any lawyers in here who can confirm this?
Already has it or can apply for it? Can't imagine that would be an easy meeting in Bangladesh.
I’d say it’s just a loophole the British government have exploited to wash their hands of her. The Bangladeshis won’t want her, nor should they be expected to. So she’ll be effectively stateless.What if Bangladesh don't want to give her citizenship? I mean why would they?
Agree 100%, this is by far the best argument for letting her come home.And why should Bangladesh or Pakistan take any responsibility for those delinquents?
And I don't think it's fair Syria have to deal with them either.
Baby boy born couple days ago.Kids not born yet. When he/she is born she'll not be born to a British citizen, so I guess won't qualify for British citizenship. Any lawyers in here who can confirm this?
Interesting. I guess by the same logic, the kid is then still qualifies for British citizenship (he was de-facto born with it) . Isn't the father Dutch?Baby has been born
