Cancel Culture

dumbo

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No idea who that is. Must be a Brit thing?
He was a celebrity that fell foul of the lefty, PC, woke, trans rights activist agenda, and was Cancelled due to Cancel Culture. He was also briefly a resident at Her Majesties Pleasure.

He is also disgusting so the heroic anti-woke lot refuse to own him or his cause.

When they packaged everything up into one reductive, irresponsible phrase, often used to target specific marginalized people they accidentally included him.

Basically he's an inconvenience.
 

starman

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I find it interesting that you’re questioning someone’s position based on an opinion they posted online. Tut tut. :D
Don't understand your point, whats questioning got to do with the essence of this thread, questioning happens in every reply. You just made a post further up about "consequence culture", I am not asking for him to be cancelled, deplatformed or whatever buzzword, I thought it was a weird post, regardless of being used as a joke.
 

Berbasbullet

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Don't understand your point, whats questioning got to do with the essence of this thread. You just made a post further up about "consequence culture", I am not asking for him to be cancelled, I thought it was a weird post, regardless of being used as a joke.
Relax buddy just making a joke.
 

Schmeichel's Cartwheel

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again, she didn’t say anything. She didn’t want to put up her pro nouns. They hounded her and hounded her. 6 months of death threats, rape threats and calling her boot lick racist. And no one said anything about it. She was right when she called them out. The fact you (and others all over the internet)are still repeating the misinformation a month after the fact about what she did speaks volumes about how cancel culture works.

6 months of death threats, rape threats, and general abuse. And people were fine with it. So she was right. They normalised abusing her because of politics just like the nazis normalised abusing Jews. That doesn’t mean she thinks shes like the Jews. It means that that people online are acting like nazis, and the people who say nothing have been convinced it’s fine that she should be treated that way.

I don’t agree with her politics. I don’t think she’s a very good actress. And I don’t think she’ll be missed from Star Wars. But to accept that it’s ok to abuse her like that for months is bullshit, in my opinion. And to then punish her further when she calls that treatment out is, well, pretty horrible.
Why was her not putting her “pronouns” even brought up? Like what even started that?
 

Norman Brownbutter

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That's really not any better if you think about it. Comparing some people being rude on Twitter to what happened during the holocaust is absurd and offensive. Those two things are nothing alike and you know she's doing it to try to paint liberals/the left as "nazis". She's a cnut of the highest order based on her twitter comments, the fact that some random people are being rude doesn't change the fact she was way out of line.
6 months of death threats and rape threats is a bit more than being rude. But are we really ready to start allowing this kind of abuse of people because of hyperbole?
 

Norman Brownbutter

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Why was her not putting her “pronouns” even brought up? Like what even started that?
I dont know the whole story. But it goes something like this. Twitter people started putting up pro nouns next to their tags. It was because of the whole people being non binary and trans. He/him, she/her, they/them. People on her twitter kept telling her to put her pro nouns up on her tag. She refused as she didnt get it. They kept on hassling her, and in the end she put up beep bop boop or something like that. That was when she pretty much fecked herself. And the twitter people decided that she was making fun of trans and non binary people. She says she wasnt, she just didnt get it. Her co star, Pedro Pascal is big supporter of the pro nouns and the LGBT community in general because his brother or sister is trans. I cant remember which way they transitioned. But they are trans in any case. So Pedro took Gina aside and explained the importance of pro nouns to Gina and she accept it. She went on twitter said sorry, she didnt get it but she does now and thanked Pedro. And at this point Im really hating myself for knowing all of this. Its such terrible soap opera drama.

Anyway, that should have been the end of it but it wasnt and they just kept going after her. And that was how we ended up with "that post". I think it started in June or July, ramped up over August and September with accusations of racism. It was a long time.
 

Olly Gunnar Solskjær

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She also was publicly liking Tweets by people who were making fun of trans people who had pronouns in their profiles.

As well as tweets on other topics keeping the "spotlight" on her up until her Instagram post.
 

NotThatSoph

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Of course boycotts have been around since before social media, but the thing that’s new about it as far as I can see is the bar for what merits one has been lowered, and secondly how in extreme cases people will weaponise it to suit an existing agenda.

I totally agree with taking your money elsewhere and voting with your feet when someone says or does something racist or homophobic etc. Someone mentioned Mel Gibson as an example of someone hit by it, but to me that’s not cancel culture - the guy is a known basket case who has said some awful, racist things. And even if he hadn’t, people have a right to vote with their feet and boycott anyone for any reason they see fit. It’s a free country. You shouldn’t even need a reason.

However where I think cancel culture can be quite toxic, is when someone has already decided they don’t like you, (e.g because they disagree with you politically say) and try to get you cancelled because of it. That’s where the mobs can get quite ugly, and they know it works because companies have caved in time and time again to appease them. I think companies should maintain some perspective and actually evaluate what the person has done, and not how many retweets a call for their firing has.
This is where the obligatatory Dixie Chicks mention comes in, or, failing that, L.A. Law, Star Trek. If we want to hit all the buttons, then Salt of the Earth.
 

NotThatSoph

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I dont know the whole story. But it goes something like this. Twitter people started putting up pro nouns next to their tags. It was because of the whole people being non binary and trans. He/him, she/her, they/them. People on her twitter kept telling her to put her pro nouns up on her tag. She refused as she didnt get it. They kept on hassling her, and in the end she put up beep bop boop or something like that. That was when she pretty much fecked herself. And the twitter people decided that she was making fun of trans and non binary people. She says she wasnt, she just didnt get it. Her co star, Pedro Pascal is big supporter of the pro nouns and the LGBT community in general because his brother or sister is trans. I cant remember which way they transitioned. But they are trans in any case. So Pedro took Gina aside and explained the importance of pro nouns to Gina and she accept it. She went on twitter said sorry, she didnt get it but she does now and thanked Pedro. And at this point Im really hating myself for knowing all of this. Its such terrible soap opera drama.

Anyway, that should have been the end of it but it wasnt and they just kept going after her. And that was how we ended up with "that post". I think it started in June or July, ramped up over August and September with accusations of racism. It was a long time.
Now this is strange. If you don't know the story then presumably you'd check, right? I didn't, so I did. She talked to Pedro Pascal, who has a trans sister, and then she understood the request. Then, after understanding why people were allegedly asking for pronouns in her bio, she chose to purposefully make fun of them by putting in "beep/bop/boop".
 

Grinner

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I like how rabid basement trolls throwing around rape and death threats at women on twitter has finally been put into context for what it always has been: It's just a bit of rudeness. Grow a backbone and deal with it.
Kind of like The General in the early days.
 

nimic

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I like how rabid basement trolls throwing around rape and death threats at women on twitter has finally been put into context for what it always has been: It's just a bit of rudeness. Grow a backbone and deal with it.
Go ahead and point me to the rape and death threats in post I was replying to.
 

Norman Brownbutter

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Now this is strange. If you don't know the story then presumably you'd check, right? I didn't, so I did. She talked to Pedro Pascal, who has a trans sister, and then she understood the request. Then, after understanding why people were allegedly asking for pronouns in her bio, she chose to purposefully make fun of them by putting in "beep/bop/boop".
I said I dont know the whole story. Is there some reason you just misrepresented what I said?

I dont know how the pro nouns going in the tag started. The beep/bop/boop came before the conversation with pedro. Thats why its not there anymore.
 

NotThatSoph

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I said I dont know the whole story. Is there some reason you just misrepresented what I said?

I dont know how the pro nouns going in the tag started. The beep/bop/boop came before the conversation with pedro. Thats why its not there anymore.
I misrepresented you not knowing the main part of the story as you not knowing the story, yes, I take full responsibility for that.

Why do you believe that the beep/bop/boop came before the conversation?
 

Norman Brownbutter

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I misrepresented you not knowing the main part of the story as you not knowing the story, yes, I take full responsibility for that.

Why do you believe that the beep/bop/boop came before the conversation?
How is 'why did twitter users start put pro nouns in" the main part of the story?





Notice the dates?
 

Norman Brownbutter

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Yes, I notice the date where beep/bop/boop comes after the conversation with Pascal. Why do you think she added it before?
So its there, and shes telling people that she had the conversation. The next day its gone. But if you have something that says otherwise, by all means.
 

NotThatSoph

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So its there, and shes telling people that she had the conversation. The next day its gone. But if you have something that says otherwise, by all means.
The fact that the first ever mention of beep/bop/boop came after the first ever tweet mentioning Pedro Pascal?
 

dumbo

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If you commit heinous crimes, or if you target marginalized groups, or if you leak information of government illegality to the press, or if you stand for free broadband for your citizens, or if you post edgy jokes on twitter you may face a negative response from people, organisations, the media, politicians, governments and society as a whole. These are the consequences of your actions.

Sometimes the consequences will be fair sometimes horribly unjust, sometimes mild, sometimes fierce. Sometimes they will be organised by fascist politicians, sometimes social justice advocates, sometimes sadistic bullies with 20 minutes to kill, sometimes media moral panickers, sometimes meanies on twitter.

That the entire social phenomena of ostracism has been boiled down to one lazy expression and carelessly and almost exclusively wielded against some nebulous cabal of villainous lefty wokists, usually hiding on twitter and in our universities, might actually be saying more about those doing the boiling and wielding.
 

NotThatSoph

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And why do you believe that?
I believe that because of a combination of two things. The first thing as the the earliest mention of her conversation with Pascal that I can find happened on the 12th of September and the first mention of her mocking trans people with her robot speech being on the 13th. The second thing is me using my learned experience to deduce that the 13th came after the 12th.
 

Norman Brownbutter

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I believe that because of a combination of two things. The first thing as the the earliest mention of her conversation with Pascal that I can find happened on the 12th of September and the first mention of her mocking trans people with her robot speech being on the 13th. The second thing is me using my learned experience to deduce that the 13th came after the 12th.
What are you doing? I ask because the beep bop boop is on the twitter post above that she made saying she had the conversation. Its marked the 12th. On the twitter post again above were its not there anymore its the 13th. 12th, its there. 13th, its gone. 13 does indeed come after 12.

And thats before we even get into this

Unless of course "you know what she meant"?
 

NotThatSoph

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What are you doing? I ask because the beep bop boop is on the twitter post above that she made saying she had the conversation. Its marked the 12th. On the twitter post again above were its not there anymore its the 13th. 12th, its there. 13th, its gone. 13 does indeed come after 12.

And thats before we even get into this

Unless of course "you know what she meant"?
No, you're right, I was looking for screep captures of her bio because that's where peope type that stuff, totally missing what was staring me in my face.
 

Tarrou

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Of course boycotts have been around since before social media, but the thing that’s new about it as far as I can see is the bar for what merits one has been lowered, and secondly how in extreme cases people will weaponise it to suit an existing agenda.

I totally agree with taking your money elsewhere and voting with your feet when someone says or does something racist or homophobic etc. Someone mentioned Mel Gibson as an example of someone hit by it, but to me that’s not cancel culture - the guy is a known basket case who has said some awful, racist things. And even if he hadn’t, people have a right to vote with their feet and boycott anyone for any reason they see fit. It’s a free country. You shouldn’t even need a reason.

However where I think cancel culture can be quite toxic, is when someone has already decided they don’t like you, (e.g because they disagree with you politically say) and try to get you cancelled because of it. That’s where the mobs can get quite ugly, and they know it works because companies have caved in time and time again to appease them. I think companies should maintain some perspective and actually evaluate what the person has done, and not how many retweets a call for their firing has.
the main thing that's new about modern day cancel culture, in my view at least, is everyones fair game now (including the establishment)

in past the holders of power were doing all the cancelling and nobody cared, or at least nobody who cared had any voice

this is what I see is the most important aspect that social media has played, it's given everyone a voice
 

AkaAkuma

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If we're touching on Gina Carano again, the aspect that troubled me the most was Disney calling her views abhorrent.

This was after the period she was no longer employed by them. They didnt renew as she was too outspoken, which I thinks fine.

But to then call out somebody who no longer is in your employment with abbhorence, and the power that has coming from Disney is wrong.

Thank her for her work and say you dont share her values.
 

Gehrman

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If we're touching on Gina Carano again, the aspect that troubled me the most was Disney calling her views abhorrent.

This was after the period she was no longer employed by them. They didnt renew as she was too outspoken, which I thinks fine.

But to then call out somebody who no longer is in your employment with abbhorence, and the power that has coming from Disney is wrong.

Thank her for her work and say you dont share her values.
It's always good to get a moral lecture from Disney.

Personally I I had people haressing me on twitter. I wouldn't give them what they wanted.
 
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VorZakone

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How is 'why did twitter users start put pro nouns in" the main part of the story?





Notice the dates?
"Putting pronouns in your bio is just a decent thing to do".

What's the backstory here? Why were they asking Carano that? Surely it's none of their business whether Carano puts pronouns in their bio or not. Why do they care?
 

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"I didn't know about it before but now I do", kind of a common theme for these rightwingers. Making bold statements on Twitter about stuff they know feck all about.

Bit like me talking about football.
 

Gehrman

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"I didn't know about it before but now I do", kind of a common theme for these rightwingers. Making bold statements on Twitter about stuff they know feck all about.

Bit like me talking about football.
I in general always look to Hollywood celebrities for virtue, wisdom and guidance.
 

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Thanks for proving my point. "its fairly obvious what she meant.". Apparently its not. Since everyone has gone out of their way to ignore what she meant. And yes, I am keen to point it out because its a shitty culture that we are allowing to happen. "We know what you really meant" has been used for a long time to screw people over. And now people can point a finger at you, and youre just guilty. Thats it. How do you prove youre not a racist? You cant, anything you say just digs the hole deeper. How do you say youre not sexist? You cant, you just dig the hole deeper. Say nothing, youre guilty. Defend yourself, youre guilty. She clarified what she meant. It didnt matter, now she was a liar as well. Because you can never defend yourself once youve been accused in todays world. And that should scare the living shit out of us all.

If people agreed with me, then we wouldnt be here. 6 months of being constantly attacked. 6 months of no one saying anything. Thats the context of her post about the nazis, nazi neighbours and jews. And this where my other pet hate comes in of people ignore context, and the nuance of an argument. "How is that different from hating someone for their political views?". Its a good question, how is it that we can be fine with people hating like that for no other reason than religion or politics? Death threats and rape threats on line are horrible. Yet it seems that because shes right wing, its ok. Its ok to attack people like that because they are sub human? Isnt that what the nazis did? They convinced people that jews were sub human so it was to treat them like that? Isnt that what they slave owners in America did to black people? Isnt that why still today they word most used to dehumanise black people is still so offensive? 6 months of daily abuse, and no one cared. But as soon as she brings up nazis and jews everyone cant be more interested.

Like I said, Im not a fan of hers or her politics. But the treatment she got was bullshit in my opinion. She didnt want to do the pro nouns thing and that was it. They were going to get her one way of another. And they got her.
Yeah, you're just repeating the same lines now without actually responding to the points I made in my post.

And with regard to the one new point you made about being unable to do anything but dig a deeper hole for yourself, that's not true at all. You apologise, you don't make silly comparisons between an organised, state level genocidal regime and some people writing nasty messages. Or do what I do and abandon social media. Or maybe do what many celebrities do and pay someone to handle it for you for the PR. Plenty of ways to prevent yourself from the inevitability of people on a platform disagreeing with stupid stuff you might write and the smaller number of extremists who make illegal threats to your person.
 

decorativeed

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6 months of death threats and rape threats is a bit more than being rude. But are we really ready to start allowing this kind of abuse of people because of hyperbole?
You're willfully and repeatedly ignoring the fact that that kind of abuse is not allowed at all. It is actually illegal, as you well know. The people that made them can and should face the consequences. But that obviously doesn't fit your argument.
 

JPRouve

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the main thing that's new about modern day cancel culture, in my view at least, is everyones fair game now (including the establishment)

in past the holders of power were doing all the cancelling and nobody cared, or at least nobody who cared had any voice

this is what I see is the most important aspect that social media has played, it's given everyone a voice
I share that idea but I have one small point that is the crux of my disagreement with the idea of cancel culture. In the past people used to either call radio stations, protests in the streets or write something for the comments sections of their local/national newspaper, your visibility was comparatively limited by default. The newspapers and radios comments were currated but it was still possible to see people share outrageous/mean things. Nowadays you have an easier access and wider platform the comment sections are global and not/barely currated.

Also there is something everyone in this thread knows but we tend to overlook it, a massive part of what we see on twitter is trolling. People who don't really care about the topic, aren't affiliated to any side but just want to throw a grenade in a comment section and watch everything burn.

Edit: And I forgot to mention letters sent directly to public figures or their entourages whether it is to threaten, berate or share your passion.
 
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Norman Brownbutter

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"Putting pronouns in your bio is just a decent thing to do".

What's the backstory here? Why were they asking Carano that? Surely it's none of their business whether Carano puts pronouns in their bio or not. Why do they care?
that was her point, they didn’t take too kindly to that.
 

decorativeed

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"Putting pronouns in your bio is just a decent thing to do".

What's the backstory here? Why were they asking Carano that? Surely it's none of their business whether Carano puts pronouns in their bio or not. Why do they care?
Probably because they were hoping as a woman with a high profile in the media she'd be an ally rather than a bit of a knob. Not that I agree people should feel forced to do so, it should ultimately be their choice, but her replies only escalated the situation.
 

Norman Brownbutter

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You're willfully and repeatedly ignoring the fact that that kind of abuse is not allowed at all. It is actually illegal, as you well know. The people that made them can and should face the consequences. But that obviously doesn't fit your argument.
Im not doing anything so the sort. When Laura Bailey got the same treatment because she voiced a character in the last of us, it was everywhere. People were outraged. Heads will roll etc. For Gina, it was deleted with out much of a stink. They made new accounts, rinse and repeat.
 

decorativeed

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Im not doing anything so the sort. When Laura Bailey got the same treatment because she voiced a character in the last of us, it was everywhere. People were outraged. Heads will roll etc. For Gina, it was deleted with out much of a stink. They made new accounts, rinse and repeat.
I would say that is a fundamental problem with how social media companies deal with trolling rather than something exclusive to "cancel culture".
 

Gehrman

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Had anyone been "cancelled" for something that wasn't shitty or dumb behaviour? I can't really think of anyone.
If we consider No-platforming people from universities, I'd mention Richard Dawkins. On top of that I would add Brett Weinstein's treatment at Evergreen college.
 
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Norman Brownbutter

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Probably because they were hoping as a woman with a high profile in the media she'd be an ally rather than a bit of a knob. Not that I agree people should feel forced to do so, it should ultimately be their choice, but her replies only escalated the situation.
what you mean to say there is that she said no, and didn’t take their shit for saying no. Why we are still pretending that just because someone has good intentions they can’t be toxic as feck about it? This is problem with all of this. The tribalism of us vs them. She’s a right winger, so she’s just automatically in the wrong. Her being a moron and not deserving of the abuse she got can both be true. And in fact are both true. But because of some line in the sand, so many people are going out of their way to excuse what happened. Might as well say “what did she think was going to happen going up to his room at that time of night?”. Blaming the victim of abuse is never a good look.