[roonster09]

The way he received simple passes when surrounded by multiple players and then made that into attacking move by dribbling past players was great to see, remember having argument last season when people were moaning about him taking the risk, and how it was bad decision making, should have just passed it back.

He just created attacking phase out of nothing so many times, his combination of technique, physicality is so hard to stop.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

We'll look like mugs either way cause no way we replace him properly. Glazers simply don't bother.

Personally I'd add to the squad make him stay one more season and hopefully if we keep improving and our fans stop treating him like shit he'd stay.

Basically I'd bank on him changing his mind than risk the club having to replace him.

I can see your point, and on this seasons form its certainly worth the gamble, but I dont think he will sign if he hasnt done by the end of the euros.

 

[laughtersassassin]

I can see your point, and on this seasons form its certainly worth the gamble, but I dont think he will sign if he hasnt done by the end of the euros.

Fair, it's hard to know. Another reason to risk it is that Real and Juve aren't very good right now and if we kept Pogba for next season and actually added two top quality players to the first 11 it's possible we might be better than those teams.

Obviously depends what they do as well.

I'd rather keep as it would most likely mean we progress for another year. Sell and the chances we regress as a team are fairly high.

Also if you where him would you sign a new contract before seeing our summer window? I wouldn't if I was in his shoes. I'd wait and see if the club shows no ambition yet again.

Like let's be honest, Im sure Bruno and the other top players aren't too pleased with our last window. Like we are relativley close to the top of the table. A bit of ambition last Summer and we might have had a chance to win the thing.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Fair, it's hard to know. Another reason to risk it is that Real and Juve aren't very good right now and if we kept Pogba for next season and actually added two top quality players to the first 11 it's possible we might be better than those teams.

Obviously depends what they do as well.

I'd rather keep as it would most likely mean we progress for another year. Sell and the chances we regress as a team are fairly high.

Also if you where him would you sign a new contract before seeing our summer window? I wouldn't if I was in his shoes. I'd wait and see if the club shows no ambition yet again.

Like let's be honest, Im sure Bruno and the other top players aren't too pleased with our last window. Like we are relativley close to the top of the table. A bit of ambition last Summer and we might have had a chance to win the thing.

Its a valid point, a good window and league or Cl win next season may change his mind, I suppose even in that case he then leaves for free it makes us a more attractive option to other signings for replacing him, tough to know what to do for the best......

 

[Jeppers7]

Oh right. You will literally invent a fictional reality to support your argument. Interesting. I’ll leave you to it so.

As opposed to your fictional reality that thinks Pogba has 3 poor games to every good game.

 

[Jeppers7]

You're being silly. When anybody says a player has had a good season they don't mean he's literally performed every single game. I mentioned those two games because they were just this week. Three games this week. Excellent in one, average in the other two. I'm sure if I went through the rest of the season there'd be other average games from him as well. Believe me I'm not saying he has to be perfect every game. That narrative can be dropped.

This isn't revolutionary stuff. I'm just saying we need to have Pogba performing at a high level for a full season(doesn't mean every aingle game) before we start saying it's essential we keep him.

He could stay or leave for me, there are postives and negatives to both scenarios. But if he does leave it's not some impossible task to replace him. We've replaced better players many times.

I posted this a couple of pages back....it’s Pogba’s form since the start of December when he’d recovered from Covid and was back to fitness and back in the team:-

....

Now I’m sure people will argue that he wasn’t our best player in this game or that game, whatever it’s opinions, it doesn’t change the fact that whilst Luke Shaw (usually) might have been better in someone’s opinion, Pogba still played well. The only games he probably didn’t play well in this period were games where the entire team was poor, and he was usually our best player (or one of).

I struggle to think of many poor team performances that include an undeniably brilliant individual performance from any player. But Pogbas individual performances got wrapped up in a team performance so if the teams shit...Pogba was...even when he wasn’t.

This sample size is 16 matches, a poster asked last night about a ratio of good games to poor. Here you go

West Ham. Good. Great equaliser
Leipzig off bench. Almost got us through. Brilliant
City our best player. Only one who could deal with their press
Sheff Utd really good. Great assist and role in second goal
Everton carabao cup. Really good.
Leicester sub really poor.
Wolves. Our best player.
Villa really good. Won penalty for the winner. Big role in first goal.
City carabao cup. Our best player.
Burnley man of the match. Scored winner.
Liverpool our best player.
Fulham good performance. Great goal to win game.
Liverpool fa cup really good performance
Sheff United average but our best player on the night.
Arsenal. Really good.
Everton injured. Was playing really well.

I’d say he’s been excellent overall since December and his form before that was obviously largely due to the effects of Covid. He’s had a really good season. But as I said don’t worry it won’t be remembered.

 

[Jeppers7]

As you will see from my subsequent comment, I'm only counting those games where he had recovered from Covid. Which is reasonable. And it's not as though Shaw's performances have been at the same level the whole time. He has a high bottom level but he's not been consistently productive. Can't remember him putting in a single cross yesterday for example. But I really don't want to sound like I'm bashing Shaw as I love him.

There was a point this season where people were hoping Telles replaced Shaw. That’s how great he was at the start of the season.

 

[devips]

If he is so good this season, why is his rating a mere 5.9? Redcafe apparently don't think he has been excellent all through.

 

[roonster09]

If he is so good this season, why is his rating a mere 5.9? Redcafe apparently don't think he has been excellent all through.

Caf rating is the worst way to judge a player's season. Heat of the moment, players get 1s and 2s.

 

[Jeppers7]

Looks just about unplayable when he’s on form like yesterday. Would love to see him deliver for us the the Europa games and give us a trophy.

Just can’t be trusted to back it up though. Who would bet on him delivering the same level or even close in the next game?

Whatever about Granada, I would worry about him in the home match v Burnley on Sunday. Just the kind of game that he tends to go missing in.

Ah right so he plays well in big games and goes missing in the small games now....like when we played them away? Or pretty much anytime he’s played against Burnley to be honest he’s been great? Or Fulham away? Or Villa at Home? Etc etc. Or are you singling him out in games where the entire team have been poor and expecting him to be brilliant on his own?

 

[Jeppers7]

If he is so good this season, why is his rating a mere 5.9? Redcafe apparently don't think he has been excellent all through.

How would you rate Bruno’s season?

 

[Ali Dia]

Think they'd need to stump up 50m this summer for us to agree but yeah I think he'd go, regardless of our finish to the season. Pogba is 28 so it's his last chance of a big move, this summer if someone pays up or next on a free. He won't stay to push our project on as he can't do projects anymore. Can't blame him tbh, unfortunate timing for us but it is what it is.

I think he if went to PSG and they hold onto Mbappe then they could win the CL, maybe even more than once before Pogba retires. I agree with the posters saying you don’t build around players you just keep on picking up top players when you can. Our fixation with building around PP hasn’t really got us anywhere. It does seem his best position is in the Bruno slot but whatever we did yesterday with Fred behind was league winning standard play. We just need consistency. Play Pogba on the left drifting back inside. Rest Rashford. One or two more good players next season and we should drop off much less with injuries and fatigue.

 

[Jibbs]

He was sensational yesterday... prancing around the turf like a thoroughbred.

 

[DoomSlayer]

Pogba is just unstoppable when he plays like yesterday. To me, it showed he can control the game as you expect from the very best of players, especially midfielders. On a couple of occasions he went past a few players and it just reminded me of Zidane so much, phenomenal how easy Pogba made it look.

I hope we buy the right players in the summer, we need a top class striker that can scare the opposition every game and a top class midfielder, who can allow Pogba and Bruno to do their magic.

 

[Marwood]

I posted this a couple of pages back....it’s Pogba’s form since the start of December when he’d recovered from Covid and was back to fitness and back in the team:-

....

Now I’m sure people will argue that he wasn’t our best player in this game or that game, whatever it’s opinions, it doesn’t change the fact that whilst Luke Shaw (usually) might have been better in someone’s opinion, Pogba still played well. The only games he probably didn’t play well in this period were games where the entire team was poor, and he was usually our best player (or one of).

I struggle to think of many poor team performances that include an undeniably brilliant individual performance from any player. But Pogbas individual performances got wrapped up in a team performance so if the teams shit...Pogba was...even when he wasn’t.

This sample size is 16 matches, a poster asked last night about a ratio of good games to poor. Here you go

West Ham. Good. Great equaliser
Leipzig off bench. Almost got us through. Brilliant
City our best player. Only one who could deal with their press
Sheff Utd really good. Great assist and role in second goal
Everton carabao cup. Really good.
Leicester sub really poor.
Wolves. Our best player.
Villa really good. Won penalty for the winner. Big role in first goal.
City carabao cup. Our best player.
Burnley man of the match. Scored winner.
Liverpool our best player.
Fulham good performance. Great goal to win game.
Liverpool fa cup really good performance
Sheff United average but our best player on the night.
Arsenal. Really good.
Everton injured. Was playing really well.

I’d say he’s been excellent overall since December and his form before that was obviously largely due to the effects of Covid. He’s had a really good season. But as I said don’t worry it won’t be remembered.

I appreciate you going into a game by game breakdown but that's really just your opinion and unlikely to suddenly change my mind about his performance levels. Just like me giving you my game by game breakdown would unlikely change yours.

Like I said I think he's been ok, decent.

Until he gives us a full, consistent, excellent season I'm not going to worry about replacing him. If the management are on the ball it should be fine. It's not like replacing Keane, Robson, Ferdinand, Ronaldo etc.

Equally if he signs a new contract and is motivated then all good. We can't lose really.

 

[kouroux]

@Jeppers7 Nice detailed post

 

[Ali Dia]

If it’s not all bollocks and mino is actually looking for a million a week for Haaland then what do you think he’s asking for Pogba? Why are wages so much less in England than Spain and is it just that they have to declare it?

 

[Dante]

If he is so good this season, why is his rating a mere 5.9? Redcafe apparently don't think he has been excellent all through.

He's been fairly poor this season, particularly in midfield. The move into the wing positions has brought him to life.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Pogba is just unstoppable when he plays like yesterday. To me, it showed he can control the game as you expect from the very best of players, especially midfielders. On a couple of occasions he went past a few players and it just reminded me of Zidane so much, phenomenal how easy Pogba made it look.

I hope we buy the right players in the summer, we need a top class striker that can scare the opposition every game and a top class midfielder, who can allow Pogba and Bruno to do their magic.

You want Pogba here next season then?

 

[Jeppers7]

I appreciate you going into a game by game breakdown but that's really just your opinion and unlikely to suddenly change my mind about his performance levels. Just like me giving you my game by game breakdown would unlikely change yours.

Like I said I think he's been ok, decent.

Until he gives us a full, consistent, excellent season I'm not going to worry about replacing him. If the management are on the ball it should be fine. It's not like replacing Keane, Robson, Ferdinand, Ronaldo etc.

Equally if he signs a new contract and is motivated then all good. We can't lose really.

No...feel absolutely free to do a game by game breakdown. I’d be interested to see it.

 

[Jeppers7]

@Jeppers7 Nice detailed post

Thanks. It’s annoying that people just throw about lazy narratives and don’t back it up.

 

[snk123]

Need to keep him at all costs. He just takes the burden off Bruno - regardless of the type of game he's having.

 

[Jeppers7]

He's been fairly poor this season, particularly in midfield. The move into the wing positions has brought him to life.

Can you be more specific? How many games has he played on the wings? How many games has he been poor, which games were these?

 

[arthurka]

Don't care for the bad games when he has games like this. Just class apart

 

[The Substitute]

I'm pretty sure Bruno and Pogba are quite equal in terms of number of "poor" games this season, which seems to be the narrative against Pogba (by some).

Bruno is a hailed and he is rarely objectively rated in here vs. Pogba on the other end of the scale.

Litterally every game (including the spurs game) Bruno is voted MoM by the TV audience here in Norway, and I see the same bias everywhere in the fanbase.

Back to Pogba, he is absolutely crucial. When he has a bad day, then the whole team is usually just as poor and we loose.

 

[Rozay]

He's been fairly poor this season, particularly in midfield. The move into the wing positions has brought him to life.

Good grief. ‘Fairly poor this season’.

 

[The Original]

There was a point this season where people were hoping Telles replaced Shaw. That’s how great he was at the start of the season.

It's amazing. Never have I seen such wilfully short memories as I have here on redcafe.

 

[DWelbz19]

If he is so good this season, why is his rating a mere 5.9? Redcafe apparently don't think he has been excellent all through.

Luke Shaw’s a 6.3. Rashford’s a 5.7. Bruno a 6.4. Those ratings are not a good barometer at all.

 

[TsuWave]

If he is so good this season, why is his rating a mere 5.9? Redcafe apparently don't think he has been excellent all through.

this is so silly people don't rate players every match, nor consistently, in fact, they're more likely to only use the rating system when they have a disasterclass

 

[r0663664]

Pogba can really shine as the left midfielder where losing ball will have less complications. Central midfield is where he finds trouble, once he loses possession teams will come at us. If we can get a quality DM then it will gives us a lot of option on where Pogba can play. Ever since he return to XI, he has perform 7 or 8 out of 10. Outstanding against Spurs.

 

[tjb]

Think its a bit late and his agent is still here. Juventus clearly don't have a suitable offer, that Ronnie swap makes no sense to us. Real have the assets to push that deal through, but they might be too focused on Mbappe. Barca are an interesting one too look out. They are veering away from their system and are not quite what they used to be in midfield. Griezman is already there and they have Ousmane Dembele . I would rather De jong, but Dembele is a good compromise plus cash of course. PSG should be looked at considerably. They can afford to buy him outright, just cash. I also like the look of Paredes.

 

[westmeath]

Ah right so he plays well in big games and goes missing in the small games now....like when we played them away? Or pretty much anytime he’s played against Burnley to be honest he’s been great? Or Fulham away? Or Villa at Home? Etc etc. Or are you singling him out in games where the entire team have been poor and expecting him to be brilliant on his own?

well I wasn’t referring to games v Burnley specifically (but since you mention it, Pogba was terrible in the 2-2 draw in Jan 2019).

I was simply questioning his consistency and his ability to back up a 10/10 performance like yesterday with a decent one next time out. Evidence of the past 5 years gives me every right to ask the question.

 

[kouroux]

Thanks. It’s annoying that people just throw about lazy narratives and don’t back it up.

It really is. Just as people criticize players without taking context into account (not just for Pogba but everyone). A bad game is a bad game and that's it

 

[DanNistelrooy]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

The touch at 2:24 was outrageous

Rolls Royce performance today especially down the stretch in the 2nd half when it really mattered

When he plays like that it really is like watching men vs boys. Too powerful / strong and that's before we get onto technical ability where he was also lightyears ahead of anyone else on the pitch.

You could sense there was extra motivation yesterday (Jose factor?), it was the same away at Spurs last season too.

 

[Marwood]

No...feel absolutely free to do a game by game breakdown. I’d be interested to see it.

I'm starting to get the feeling you're a huge Pogba fan and there'd be very little point.

I've watched every minute this season and it's my honest opinion he's been decent but nothing more. I must have watched about 25 seasons of football now so numerous generations of midfielders. So I think I can throw an opinion in there on a player being excellent or just ok.

If you want to call a different opinion a "lazy narrative" so be it.

One thing's for sure, if he can perform for the rest of the season like he did on Sunday we'll be in a good place.

 

[Jetrooooo]

Him and Martial would've been gone if we kept Mourinho. Probably would have replaced them with Mandzukic and Perisic

 

[Jeppers7]

I'm starting to get the feeling you're a huge Pogba fan and there'd be very little point.

I've watched every minute this season and it's my honest opinion he's been decent but nothing more. I must have watched about 25 seasons of football now so numerous generations of midfielders. So I think I can throw an opinion in there on a player being excellent or just ok.

If you want to call a different opinion a "lazy narrative" so be it.

One thing's for sure, if he can perform for the rest of the season like he did on Sunday we'll be in a good place.

Of course there would be point....it’s a counter argument. You could simply use the same sample size that I used, go through each game and justify him being nothing more than decent. Otherwise it’s simply lazy narrative, as is always the case with Pogba.

But I’m starting to get the feeling you know you can’t justify your claims realistically, so are running from the only way to actually back up your opinion.

Ive ten years on your opinion by the way, so I can add players like Robson, Mosses, Whiteside, Ince to your list of United midfielders. I’m also a season ticket holder so get to see the game from the ground. Yeah let’s measure cock sizes too ffs.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Of course there would be point....it’s a counter argument. You could simply use the same sample size that I used, go through each game and justify him being nothing more than decent. Otherwise it’s simply lazy narrative, as is always the case with Pogba.

But I’m starting to get the feeling you know you can’t justify your claims realistically, so are running from the only way to actually back up your opinion.

Ive ten years on your opinion by the way, so I can add players like Robson, Mosses, Whiteside, Ince to your list of United midfielders. I’m also a season ticket holder so get to see the game from the ground. Yeah let’s measure cock sizes too ffs.

cracking post

 

[AltiUn]

this is so silly people don't rate players every match, nor consistently, in fact, they're more likely to only use the rating system when they have a disasterclass

Guilty, half the players I've rated are sitting at a 1 after the Sheffield United match

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Of course there would be point....it’s a counter argument. You could simply use the same sample size that I used, go through each game and justify him being nothing more than decent. Otherwise it’s simply lazy narrative, as is always the case with Pogba.

But I’m starting to get the feeling you know you can’t justify your claims realistically, so are running from the only way to actually back up your opinion.

Ive ten years on your opinion by the way, so I can add players like Robson, Mosses, Whiteside, Ince to your list of United midfielders. I’m also a season ticket holder so get to see the game from the ground. Yeah let’s measure cock sizes too ffs.

Always love it when someone (not you) goes in this direction and comes up short.