Regulus Arcturus Black
Full Member
It's not a rule change, yet. It's a fecking trial you whiney brats.129 penalty shoot-outs is a fecking tiny sample size with which to base this rule change on.
It's not a rule change, yet. It's a fecking trial you whiney brats.129 penalty shoot-outs is a fecking tiny sample size with which to base this rule change on.
That is exactly what happens in the old format, it is on your mind that if you miss it at 1-0, opponent can make it 2-0 next before you get the chance to respond again?So being the one to step up first on a big European final, for the sake of argument, with the pressure that if you miss you may well put your side in a position where you're 2-0 down before you get a chance to respond, is apparently less pressure than taking a penalty 2nd whereby the worst case scenario is you're 1-0 down before you step up?
From the same article:Apparently Gerrard has spoken out against the ABBA format. "if the first team missed and the other team scores two, they're at a huge advantage", truly one of the great thinkers of our time.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/steven-gerrard-hits-nail-head-10941857
The reason is there. They lost the coin toss fair and square.It's been aped from the tennis tie-breaker, and honestly I don't have a problem with it. There's absolutely no reason why the second team in a shootout should always have the stress of chasing their opponents.
Glenn Hoddle is not a bright man.From the same article:
Former England manager Glenn Hoddle agreed with Gerrard, and pointed out that while the system solves the original problem, it creates a brand new one.
"Before you'd want to go first, but you would think twice now.
"If they miss you've got two opportunities (to score), so do you give them the opportunity to go first?"
How is that a problem? If you always wanted to go first in the old format, then that clearly shows an advantage. If the choice to go first is more difficult, that's a good thing!
If the game was perfect then there wouldn't be that 60/40 discrepancy.I don't like this format. I don't understand the need for the powers that be to constantly mess around with the rules. The game is fine, leave it as it is. The only area that could be improved upon is officiating, and use technology to do that. The game itself is perfect, leave it alone.
Which isn't exactly an empirical fact. The sample size is too small, and the inclusion of games that don't count muddies it.If the game was perfect then there wouldn't be that 60/40 discrepancy.
How is the sample size too small? It covers all the major competitions over a 40 year periodWhich isn't exactly an empirical fact. The sample size is too small, and the inclusion of games that don't count muddies it.
There's also the point that who goes first is a 50/50 chance. It's a coin toss. If you go second, unlucky, but that's how the coin landed. If you're better than the other team at taking penalties, you'll still win. This ABBA format is entirely unnecessary.
Wait a few years until we see analysis that the team who goes first in the ABBA format is at a disadvantage. It's entirely pointless.
I've read that they took into account 100+ games? That seemed very small to me. Is there a link to the actual PDF of the analysis? If they've taken every shootout into account, I'd have to consider it. Although, I'd like to know if they've also taken every ABBA shootout into account before proposing the change (in football, not tennis).How is the sample size too small? It covers all the major competitions over a 40 year period
It does though. Coin tosses can determine who wins the presidency in some countries, or becomes PM in some cases. Why not for a football match? It decides who kicks off first, or should that also be changed. Maybe a debate about who's more entitled to have first kick of the ball would be more friendly.A coin toss should not have any bearing on a result.
Thanks.
They changed the rules of the game when they introduced extra time, and then again when they introduced penalty shootouts. Another change - especially one this minor - would hardly lead to anarchy.Changes in football are no different to changes to a constitution. You have conservatives who want to keep it much the same, and liberals, happy to change anything which they think might make the game better. The problem being that small changes such as ABBA could quite easily lead to big changes. I remember there being discussion about scoring systems, and breaks after 15 minute periods and all other types of absolute nonsense. That's why seemingly irrelevant penalty formats matter a little bit (not hugely, but a little bit). It shows the will of the governing bodies to change the rules of the game. Given how money driven this sport is, I wouldn't rule out a host of other rules being changed if small changes are met with no resistance. Just my two cents.
60-40 is a big advantage, but I'd still like to see the actual analysis, or an article which details the analysis in-depth. As well as the statistics available for ABBA shootouts.
Reading it now. I have concerns with using FIFA/UEFA rankings, but the paper suggests that the hypothesis is statistically viable, so there's something to this theory. Someone mentioned having simultaneous shootouts at both ends of the pitch. That IMO would eliminate any psychological barrier involved with performance with a sword of Damocles hanging over your head.
I don't disagree, and plenty of change have been for the better (back pass rule comes straight to mind), so perhaps my "the game is perfect" was a tad hyperbolic. Still, you hear of these other potential rules floated in the press (score zones, halves into quarters, etc) and you think how absolutely crap those changes would be to anyone other than some suit sat around a desk in Zurich or wherever.They changed the rules of the game when they introduced extra time, and then again when they introduced penalty shootouts. Another change - especially one this minor - would hardly lead to anarchy.
Or substitutions.They changed the rules of the game when they introduced extra time, and then again when they introduced penalty shootouts. Another change - especially one this minor - would hardly lead to anarchy.
Nope, ABABWill tonight be ABBA if we go to pens?
Hopefully, it was awful that year they used it in the Community Shield.Resurrecting this.
Whatever happened to taking penalties in the ABBA format? Has it been abandoned?
Why was it awful?Hopefully, it was awful that year they used it in the Community Shield.
At the same end would be fun.Why was it awful?
I think the best solution would be to have penalties taken simultaneously.
It got fecked off due to it being a stupid idea.Resurrecting this.
Whatever happened to taking penalties in the ABBA format? Has it been abandoned?
It was confusing, pointless and spoils the penalty shootout.Why was it awful?
I think the best solution would be to have penalties taken simultaneously.
If you took the time to understand it, that would have helped probably.It was confusing, pointless and spoils the penalty shootout.
Regardless of whether you like it or not, if ain't broke, don't try to fix it. Current format works just fine.If you took the time to understand it, that would have helped probably.
It was designed to try and reduce the advantage of going first in a penalty shootout, which should only be dependent on the skills of the footballers and keeper
I don't think it spoiled the penalty shootout at all, but that goes back to point 1
But that was a good rule, the abba one is pointless.
First player off is the keepers.Agree with pens at both ends. But then the ref would have to constantly run up and down the pitch.
ABBA didn't work because if you missed the first penalty, the other team goes 2-0 up and it's pretty much done.
After the Europa League final, and when it got to 4-4 tonight and the quality of the penalties. I was thinking professionals now at the top level are so good it's a bit of a bore watching them put it into the corner kick after kick. Maybe it's time for something new.
1 Player off every 5 minutes from each side and golden goal. Open up the space on the pitch.