Saka 19, Sancho 21, Rashford 23. . . Why were these England’s 3rd, 4th & 5th Penalty Taker?

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I get your point. I just don’t agree on good taker always being a good taker. I still think Southgate overcoached with those subs.

Fair enough.

 

[TheReligion]

Why does this matter… it’s the same? Experience player shuns it because they don’t feel it….until truly has too, Rio-Vidic-Evra didn’t take too but Stones-Walker-Shaw are getting named by some(no one in particular) that they should of stepped up ahead of Saka… why?

I’d go with confidence over not confident experience any day…

I think what's bothering me is why Henderson was desperate to take a pen just before the tournament yet tonight he would sooner but a subbed sub than volunteer to step up. Sterling is another one.

Those two especially should be looking up to the manager and demanding to be first 5.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I think that's correct if you're talking about bringing on a specialist penalty taker but totally different when you're not. Neither Rashford or Sancho are specialists or regular takers.

They have a good taking record in their careers. I'm willing to better they are 2 of the best takers in the entire squad in training. I see not a single good reason to fault the manager for bringing them on.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

If Harry Maguire is our second best penalty taker then that's the reason why we lost!

I didn’t say this or infer this, I’ve literally been complimentary of the guys penalty but it’s never enough cause you’re a dog with a hard-on when you see my posts.

I’m all for debates in good faith but if you honestly believe I’m blaming Maguire for the loss because he took the second penalty then I’m not here to dissuade you as your far more of a cretin than I’d first feared.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I also think folks are being very unfair to Henderson. I don't believe he demanded a substitution.

 

[TheReligion]

They have a good taking record in their careers. I'm willing to better they are 2 of the best takers in the entire squad in training. I see not a single good reason to fault the manager for bringing them on.

If he'd of brought them on sooner yes. There was a right load of messing about and in the end they snuck on with seconds left.

It was all very messy and unnecessary in my opinion. Could of been handled much better

 

[TsuWave]

Absolutely gutted for them. The racist abuse on their social media pages is so vile and revolting.

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[Dancfc]

So conceivably, England would have lost without scoring a penalty, with the press than revealing than Maguire and Kane were 4th and 5th? Some master plan.

Drogba was speaking about the shootout in Munich and Robbie asked him to go 3rd and he said no 1st or 5th. His reasoning was they were the two big pressure penalties as the former sets the tempo and the latter needs no explanation.

I'm inclined to agree so with that in mind Kane had to be first or last.

 

[TheReligion]

I didn’t say this or infer this, I’ve literally been complimentary of the guys penalty but it’s never enough cause you’re a dog with a hard-on when you see my posts.

I’m all for debates in good faith but if you honestly believe I’m blaming Maguire for the loss because he took the second penalty then I’m not here to dissuade you as your far more of a cretin than I’d first feared.

Why you trying to insult me? You're so uptight and defensive all the time. I've just agreed with you about the order but in my opinion that wasn't the main reason why it went wrong as I've explained.

Sort your head out you argumentative cnut.

 

[Peyroteo]

I honestly see no good reason why it should be hard. Mentally you'd be the freshest players on the pitch if you were subbed in just for a shoot out. Frankly the only good reason for you to then go on and miss is succumbing to pressure late on in the first 5 penalties. Which is pretty much what happened to Sancho and Rashford.

Everyone is different but I'm not sure you want to be mentally fresh before taking a big penalty. Playing significant minutes earlier should put your mind in a more prepared state for that moment imo

I have no stats to back it up but from my time watching football it seems like this always happens with players that come off the bench only to take a penalty. Rodri did it in the semifinals too for example. I'm sure that the conversion rate in those circumstances is lower than normal

 

[TheReligion]

I also think folks are being very unfair to Henderson. I don't believe he demanded a substitution.

I think he'd obviously made it clear he had no desire to take a pen.. despite wanting to take one a few weeks ago and grabbing the ball from DCL!

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Sterling absolutely should have taken one.

Saka taking the last pen was suicide.

 

[He'sRaldo]

It should be technically strongest players 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, then mentally strongest players 4th and 5th.

In that case it made sense for Rashford to step up later than Maguire (in penalty taking terms), but why Kane went 1st and Saka 5th is a mystery.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Absolutely gutted for them. The racist abuse on their social media pages is so vile and revolting.

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Wrong forum mate.

None of the racists will be United fans, as we eradicated that issue some time back - try a Chelsea forum.

 

[redshaw]

Well Donnarumma is mustard, been saying it all tournament Romero is a similar large imposing keeper that would've helped us in the Europa final and in general. Don't have much faith in De Gea or Henderson

England could've helped themselves a lot with not having Saka and getting decent minutes for Rashford and Sancho to go for a win or be ready later but not sure it would've been enough to win the shootout. Jordan Henderson is doing the same thing if he's fifth probably. Sancho even if having played for 30 mins I have doubts. Sterling if not taking one and understandably very tired might not be solid enough if asked to.

Full credit to Pickford, did everything to give us a chance. Gets some major slagging off but did well ingame and the shootout.

 

[TsuWave]

Wrong forum mate.

None of the racists will be United fans, as we eradicated that issue some time back - try a Chelsea forum.

shut up man

 

[NieThePiet]

Sterling absolutely should have taken one.

Saka taking the last pen was suicide.

Rashford 13/15
Sancho 3/3
Henderson 1/1
Mount 1/1
Coady 1/1
Sterling 2/5
Rice 1/2
Trippier 0/2
Saka 0/0
Grealish 0/0
Stones 0/0
Shaw 0/0
Walker 0/0
Phillips 0/0
Calvert-Lewin 0/0
Foden 0/0
Mings 0/0
Bellingham 0/0

The states from the players on pens (except of Maguire and Kane, because both scored).

Sterling doesn't look convincing with 2/5 too and his legs looked completely gone. But why he wasn't subbed off instead of Henderson or Walker?

You can see why Sancho and Rashford were subbed in for the pens, i think positions 2, 3 and 4 are okay for these players. Saka as position 5 is just absurd. If you give him a pen, it should be the second for example, but surely not the last one.

Think Shaw would have smashed a penalty too. Already had the positive feeling of scoring in the final, a powerful left foot and some experience. If you don't want Kane as Nr.5, then give to Maguire with his experience.

But overall you can see, why this England team is the youngest one at the Euros and lacks experience. The choice wasn't great for Southgate, but there were still many better solutions than the one from today.

 

[KD6-3.7]

The Saka one boggles my mind. I'm really curious if he himself actually stepped up or nobody else wanted to.

Rashford isn't exactly inexperienced he has taken penalties in pressure situations before and while I think he is a very hit and miss penalty taker the issue was he barely kicked a ball up until that point.

 

[SAFMUTD]

I totally understand why Rashford took it, even though he's fairly young he's not inexperienced and he's a good penalty taker. Even under pressure, let's not forget he was the one who scored in the 90+ minute against PSG.

I don't know if Sancho usually takes penalties but he isn't an amateur either, one of the most promising players in Europe can understand that as well.

But Saka? What the actual feck was that, an 18 year old that has never taken a penalty before who was having a pretty poor game to give him the responsability to take the 5th pen is ridiculous.

 

[P-Ro]

Wrong forum mate.

None of the racists will be United fans, as we eradicated that issue some time back - try a Chelsea forum.

Yep. You've got no racist fans mate.

 

[Stig]

Wasn't Anderson's only kick of the game a penalty in Moscow ?

 

[jeff gurr]

They really fecked it with the penalty takers. Sterling hiding, Henderson hooked with 2 minutes to go? No Grealish either. These are experienced players

Where does the Sterling hiding theory come from ? Southgate said he picked the takers ! Did Sterling & Grealish say no to Southgate ?

 

[BluesJr]

Where does the Sterling hiding theory come from ? Southgate said he picked the takers ! Did Sterling & Grealish say no to Southgate ?

There’s absolutely no way that story is true. Maguire taking the 2nd pen? The whole thing was just chaotic. Saka taking a must score pen? Madness. Adapt your plan.

 

[mu4c_20le]

There’s absolutely no way that story is true. Maguire taking the 2nd pen? The whole thing was just chaotic. Saka taking a must score pen? Madness. Adapt your plan.

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Saka must be a hell of a pen taker in training

 

[Giggs86]

Donnarumma is a one giant motherfecker that sucks all the confidence out of you when you're stepping up for the pen. It was suicide from Southgate to not bring on Sancho and Rashford earlier and try to win at all cost before it goes to pens. Fairplay to Pickford for actually making it interesting.

 

[lawliet354]

Everyone is different but I'm not sure you want to be mentally fresh before taking a big penalty. Playing significant minutes earlier should put your mind in a more prepared state for that moment imo

I have no stats to back it up but from my time watching football it seems like this always happens with players that come off the bench only to take a penalty. Rodri did it in the semifinals too for example. I'm sure that the conversion rate in those circumstances is lower than normal

Zaza in Euro 2016 comes to mind immediately

 

[Tarrou]

some really strange decisions on the pens

I understand bringing Rashford on for one but why not give him 10 minutes first?

couldn't believe my eyes when Saka stepped up, poor lad

 

[VP89]

Southgate fluffed up much in the game including the penalty takers.

 

[Dante]

There’s absolutely no way that story is true. Maguire taking the 2nd pen? The whole thing was just chaotic. Saka taking a must score pen? Madness. Adapt your plan.

They will have practised during training with Kane being the best, Maguire the second best, etc.

If Saka was the fifth best, that's presumably why he went when he did.

Southgate could have perhaps swapped Saka around for the player who was sixth best. But that would have meant picking an inferior penalty taker whilst simultaneously knocking Saka's self-belief for the next round of kicks.

 

[Vernon Philander]

Rashford is understandle as he's got a track record of taking them for us, and clutch ones as well.

The other 2...especially Saka...I just can't fathom how more senior and experienced members haven't stepped up to take the all important last 2 penalties. Those are the ones with the most pressure attached to them as well. I dont care how well those 2 have been in training - you simply do not gamble like that. Even Rice has had experience taking them for West Ham. But Saka?!!!

 

[Abraxas]

They will have practised during training with Kane being the best, Maguire the second best, etc.

If Saka was the fifth best, that's presumably why he went when he did.

Southgate could have perhaps swapped Saka around for the player who was sixth best. But that would have meant picking an inferior penalty taker whilst simultaneously knocking Saka's self-belief for the next round of kicks.

True, but I think it's reasonably well known at this point that psychology is a very large determining factor and a lot of people have higher success rates in training that may not correlate with results in a match situation. It probably should not be as simple as whichever 5 guys hit the back of the net the most often in training during the week.

That would obviously be a starting point for formulating a good plan but you would have thought some sense of the occasion and the player in question would also factor in at a certain point. Saka stepping up 5th always placed him as taking a decisive penalty which is ludicrous.

 

[Giggs86]

Rashford is understandle as he's got a track record of taking them for us, and clutch ones as well.

The other 2...especially Saka...I just can't fathom how more senior and experienced members haven't stepped up to take the all important last 2 penalties. Those are the ones with the most pressure attached to them as well. I dont care how well those 2 have been in training - you simply do not gamble like that. Even Rice has had experience taking them for West Ham. But Saka?!!!

In a historic first final in 55 years. Unbelievable. Lack of leadership and accountability. Can't think of any other team that would've bottled it that hard. Henderson, Grealish, Rice, Sterling, Walker - any one of them could've stepped up to take that pen. Henderson especially, captain fantastic for Liverpool, asked to get subbed off with his tail between his legs afraid to take a pen.

 

[NinjaZombie]

In a historic first final in 55 years. Unbelievable. Lack of leadership and accountability. Can't think of any other team that would've bottled it that hard. Henderson, Grealish, Rice, Sterling, Walker - any one of them could've stepped up to take that pen. Henderson especially, captain fantastic for Liverpool, asked to get subbed off with his tail between his legs afraid to take a pen.

To be fair to Henderson, after the whole penalty fiasco when Southgate criticised him for taking a penalty despite not being the assigned taker, I'd say that whole episode played a part in him not allowed to take it.

Rashford and Sancho were understandable choices. Bad management not to give them minutes before though.

 

[RG 11]

Rashford and Sancho as penalty takers was fair game. Rashford, especially, has taken plenty and has had experience with high pressure penalties (PSG). He messed up his kick trying a different run up.

Southgate could've done way better with the order. If Saka does extremely well in training, let him go first due to inexperience. Let your best pen takers go 3, 4 and 5 as that's where the pressure mounts up.

But agree that the overall game was just mismatched by this defensive tactics. England were too happy to sit back for the whole game. They could've been a little more aggressive especially after italy's biggest threat in Chiesa was injured.

 

[Acheron]

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Saka must be a hell of a pen taker in training

He must be lying, those penalties didn't look like there was any thought or training behind them. He also should know better about the order, a lot of people argue the best takers must go first but at the very least you should leave an experienced player who can handle the pressure to take the fifth, or better yet not have the team play for the damn penalties...

 

[Che Guevara]

Southgate totally messed up. That was an appalling penalty lineup.

 

[Che Guevara]

The Saka one boggles my mind. I'm really curious if he himself actually stepped up or nobody else wanted to.

Rashford isn't exactly inexperienced he has taken penalties in pressure situations before and while I think he is a very hit and miss penalty taker the issue was he barely kicked a ball up until that point.

I agree. Saka has never taken a penalty before even for Arsenal. If he volunteered then he is very naive. The whole mess falls on Southgate's shoulders, he showed lack.of leaderdhip at the crucial hour.

 

[hobbers]

There's nothing wrong with wanting Sancho and Rashford on to take pens. What everyone is rightfully complaining about is the rank idiocy of putting them on with 10 seconds left and setting them up to fail.

Meanwhile Stirling was dead on his feet for most of extra time and was kept on for literally no reason other than to make it harder to win without needing pens.

Just look at the number and timings of Italy's subs compared to England's. Despite them having a weaker bench. Shades of the EL final all over again. Abysmal cowardly management.

 

[RedDevil@84]

I think Grealish and Sterling should have been ahead of Rashford. Sancho, Saka. Out of that Rashford and Sancho are more than capable to take penalties. But the only reason is that they have been sitting on their a** all Euros.

 

[Raees]

I think the bigger point is that if you have such an inexperienced penalty selection why on earth did he play for penalties since the first goal?