Who said I was referring to US soldiers?What about the innocent Afghanis caught in the middle? Victims of war aren’t exclusively US soldiers.
Who said I was referring to US soldiers?What about the innocent Afghanis caught in the middle? Victims of war aren’t exclusively US soldiers.
From another forum i post on, found it interesting.In all the invasions of Afghanistan over the centuries, perhaps more latterly, the British, the Russians and the Americans, have any of them ever been considered successful?
....Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it ( Churchill)?
If they aren't ok with that they should be doing something now.and again are governments in the west just going to be ok with women being kicked out of school and mass killings of anybody who worked with the occupying forces?
Since when does goverment in the west really cares about anything? The war in afghanistan just like any other war is just some pretext to siphon tax payer money, destabilizing middle east is just a bonus.So what's going to happen....
Presumably the taliban are going to retake power in pretty much the whole country if the last couple of weeks are anything to go by.
Is there then likley to be any pro democracy insurgency/ fightback and would that get assistance (direct or indirect) from western governments ... or would the taliban just purge so deep and so quickly that an effective resistance isn't possible.... and again are governments in the west just going to be ok with women being kicked out of school and mass killings of anybody who worked with the occupying forces?
Or is this a new fluffy taliban 2.0 who will allow more democratic and social freedoms.... or are they more like the old taliban rule ... or are they going to go full on isis style califate
Thank you for this reply, very interesting, you or whoever researched it have obviously gone to a lot of trouble.From another forum i post on, found it interesting.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
I'd say you guess right. If there's an alternative please tell us.Kabul could be isolated in 30 days... and fall in 90
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/tal...n-90-days-says-us-intelligence-report-2508414
Ghazni fell to the taliban today
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58184202
I guess the rest of the world is just accepting its back to women banned from schools, full on opium farming and football stadiums being used for public executions / stoning women to death for adultery ...
I don't think it would be as draconian as it was 20-25 years ago, mainly because the Taliban of today are largely a new generation of insurgents who came up with technology, smart phones, and the like. They would also know that they would have to deal with continued US strikes even after the US leaves.Kabul could be isolated in 30 days... and fall in 90
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/tal...n-90-days-says-us-intelligence-report-2508414
Ghazni fell to the taliban today
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58184202
I guess the rest of the world is just accepting its back to women banned from schools, full on opium farming and football stadiums being used for public executions / stoning women to death for adultery ...
I don't think this is going to happen. The Pakistani PM stated that he expects all American military action, including air strikes to conclude on the 31st August. So unless they plan to fly over Iran or over Central Asia, I suspect they're packing up for good.I don't think it would be as draconian as it was 20-25 years ago, mainly because the Taliban of today are largely a new generation of insurgents who came up with technology, smart phones, and the like. They would also know that they would have to deal with continued US strikes even after the US leaves.
I guess if you're against intervention there is nothing to do at this point. Considering the scale and length of the intervention so far i'm not sure how much longer you can drag this out.Kabul could be isolated in 30 days... and fall in 90
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/tal...n-90-days-says-us-intelligence-report-2508414
Ghazni fell to the taliban today
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58184202
I guess the rest of the world is just accepting its back to women banned from schools, full on opium farming and football stadiums being used for public executions / stoning women to death for adultery ...
Yeah short of finding some oil there im not sure what is going to get people to intervene ... sadly that's going to have some pretty dramatic and horrif outcomes for people over there... think of the people running charities focused on womens education etc they will be prime targets and they really don't have any opportunity to get out... the translators and businesses that worked with us forces... I hope I'm wrong but I expect a purge to be fast and brutal (there are already stories of surrendering troops being killed albeit currently unconfirmed stories)I guess if you're against intervention there is nothing to do at this point. Considering the scale and length of the intervention so far i'm not sure how much longer you can drag this out.
Same thing happened with Iraq and ISIS fairly quickly. Just like Vietnam the whole thing is a abject pointless failure. And if it becomes a training ground for terrorism there might just be a repeat a again. A major asylum crisis is just around the corner as well and it's going to be ugly.Yeah short of finding some oil there im not sure what is going to get people to intervene ... sadly that's going to have some pretty dramatic and horrif outcomes for people over there... think of the people running charities focused on womens education etc they will be prime targets and they really don't have any opportunity to get out... the translators and businesses that worked with us forces... I hope I'm wrong but I expect a purge to be fast and brutal (there are already stories of surrendering troops being killed albeit currently unconfirmed stories)
Shocking though that 20 odd years of nation building and training / arming the nations army has seen them largely over run in 20 odd days...
which would suggest that the tens of billions of our money set aside for nation building / training troops was perhaps diverted elsewhere?Yeah short of finding some oil there im not sure what is going to get people to intervene ... sadly that's going to have some pretty dramatic and horrif outcomes for people over there... think of the people running charities focused on womens education etc they will be prime targets and they really don't have any opportunity to get out... the translators and businesses that worked with us forces... I hope I'm wrong but I expect a purge to be fast and brutal (there are already stories of surrendering troops being killed albeit currently unconfirmed stories)
Shocking though that 20 odd years of nation building and training / arming the nations army has seen them largely over run in 20 odd days...
Nationbuilding doesn't work out in the worlds most corrupt countries. There has to be a foundation for it and there isn't in places like Afghanistan.which would suggest that the tens of billions of our money set aside for nation building / training troops was perhaps diverted elsewhere?
Rumour is there are $3 trillion worth of rare earths that can be exploited there.Yeah short of finding some oil there im not sure what is going to get people to intervene ... sadly that's going to have some pretty dramatic and horrif outcomes for people over there... think of the people running charities focused on womens education etc they will be prime targets and they really don't have any opportunity to get out... the translators and businesses that worked with us forces... I hope I'm wrong but I expect a purge to be fast and brutal (there are already stories of surrendering troops being killed albeit currently unconfirmed stories)
Shocking though that 20 odd years of nation building and training / arming the nations army has seen them largely over run in 20 odd days...
I think its more like a trillion?which would suggest that the tens of billions of our money set aside for nation building / training troops was perhaps diverted elsewhere?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-47391821According to a Brown University study in 2019, which has looked at war spending in both Afghanistan and Pakistan, the US had spent around $978bn (their estimate also includes money allocated for the 2020 fiscal year).
Did somebody say the western Chinese province of 3trillioni$tan needs tanks and troops...Rumour is there are $3 trillion worth of rare earths that can be exploited there.
I mean the Taliban were in charge for 5 years before 2001.. there's really little point of another invasion if in another 5 years time the Taliban will just regroup and take power again. It's not like Libya where there'll be a massive power vacuum after killing Ghadaffi, clearly the Taliban are a large and well equipped force, and strategicaly and politically well embedded into Afghanistan.Yeah short of finding some oil there im not sure what is going to get people to intervene ... sadly that's going to have some pretty dramatic and horrif outcomes for people over there... think of the people running charities focused on womens education etc they will be prime targets and they really don't have any opportunity to get out... the translators and businesses that worked with us forces... I hope I'm wrong but I expect a purge to be fast and brutal (there are already stories of surrendering troops being killed albeit currently unconfirmed stories)
Shocking though that 20 odd years of nation building and training / arming the nations army has seen them largely over run in 20 odd days...
I think this is the best hope for moderating the Taliban.Kandahar is about to fall too.
It's time Western governments stopped with the arrogance and negociated security arrangements with the soon to be Afghan government. They're no more radical than Saudi Arabia and every western nation is busy sucking up to their murderous regime.
Yes the UN. lets send in the Chinese and Russian delegates to advise on establishing a modern liberal democracy, they could meet in that bastion of free speech and free-doms Qatar.Who exactly are the Taliban?
Hundreds of millions or even billions have been spent fighting them, thousands of people, in the indigenous population of Afghanistan ( including the Taliban) as well as foreign troops have died, been severely disabled, (physically and mentally), seen their lives torn apart either directly by the fighting, or by the loss of loved ones to the conflict as a whole. However I suspect relative few people, certainly in the Western world know who the Taliban are and why they fight like they do. Does the Taliban exist outside Afghanistan? Who are its allies? Who equips the Taliban with weapons?Are they an Islamic sect of some kind, or a mass movement of a religious and/or political nature? Do they perceive they are fighting for the liberation of their country, and/or to impose their will on their fellow countrymen/women?
I must confess other than the picture painted via the western press and media of a people (mainly from a tribal background) who come down hard on their women folk, cut-off the heads (and other parts of the anatomy) of their enemies and who have a tough and battle-hardened military wing, as well as an apparent legal political wing, already involved in the running of the country; I am uncertain as to who they are, and what they want?
I guess the answer to the question asked earlier, I think by @sun_tzu ..." I guess the rest of the world is just accepting..." is surely yes, just as the rest of the world already accepts things in various countries that cannot be changed by outside intervention. Despite sanctions and more threats of invasion (yes that will surely win the Taliban over), people in their own country, in this case Afghanistan, have to be left to sort things out for themselves.
Surely a role for the United Nations?
I'm sure it will require billions in infrastructure development which the US has wasted on warring in the region.Did somebody say the western Chinese province of 3trillioni$tan needs tanks and troops...
Personally I doubt the USA would be leaving if that was true
They never went away since the war "ended" if anything their numbers grew stronger, what we are seeing now is the "children" of the initial conflict coming of age.Were there not posts in this thread from just a few days ago talking about how the Taliban had merely taken a few small towns and some countryside, and such? I'm sure I remember some, but I can't find them now.
Didn't age very well in any case.
Take 1 ultra Conservative tribal society.Who exactly are the Taliban?
Hundreds of millions or even billions have been spent fighting them, thousands of people, in the indigenous population of Afghanistan ( including the Taliban) as well as foreign troops have died, been severely disabled, (physically and mentally), seen their lives torn apart either directly by the fighting, or by the loss of loved ones to the conflict as a whole. However I suspect relative few people, certainly in the Western world know who the Taliban are and why they fight like they do. Does the Taliban exist outside Afghanistan? Who are its allies? Who equips the Taliban with weapons?Are they an Islamic sect of some kind, or a mass movement of a religious and/or political nature? Do they perceive they are fighting for the liberation of their country, and/or to impose their will on their fellow countrymen/women?
I must confess other than the picture painted via the western press and media of a people (mainly from a tribal background) who come down hard on their women folk, cut-off the heads (and other parts of the anatomy) of their enemies and who have a tough and battle-hardened military wing, as well as an apparent legal political wing, already involved in the running of the country; I am uncertain as to who they are, and what they want?
I guess the answer to the question asked earlier, I think by @sun_tzu ..." I guess the rest of the world is just accepting..." is surely yes, just as the rest of the world already accepts things in various countries that cannot be changed by outside intervention. Despite sanctions and more threats of invasion (yes that will surely win the Taliban over), people in their own country, in this case Afghanistan, have to be left to sort things out for themselves.
Surely a role for the United Nations?
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
As soon as NATO left - the Taliban took back over again.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
I'm pleased to see that... though I suspect pritti Patel will ensure we don't do anything like actually offer them asylum or extend the help to their family's... though I hope I'm wrong and we do the decent thing by those who worked with usDefence Secretary Ben Wallace said the security of British nationals, military personnel and former Afghan staff was the government's first priority and that it "must do everything we can to ensure their safety".
Give it a few. Months and Patel will be deporting them.I'm pleased to see that... though I suspect pritti Patel will ensure we don't do anything like actually offer them asylum or extend the help to their family's... though I hope I'm wrong and we do the decent thing by those who worked with us
The Taliban never engaged in any attacks outside of Afghanistan, neither do I think they have any intention of attacking in the west in the future. They're goal was always to take back control of Afghanistan from the US. It was Al-Qaeda that was engaging in terrorism in the West, the question though is whether the Taliban will provide harbour to any future terrorists like they did with Al-Qaeda.Is there a strong likelihood that the Taliban will look to engage in terrorist attacks in the west once they've taken control of Afghanistan or not?