Have you seen this fecking place! If anything shit opinions and agenda posters are given far too much liberty. Any other forum and I'm quite sure some of the posters (everyone knows who they are) would have been permed by now
We are an awfully coached team
- Thread starter bond19821982
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Have you seen this fecking place! If anything shit opinions and agenda posters are given far too much liberty. Any other forum and I'm quite sure some of the posters (everyone knows who they are) would have been permed by now
Ole has done just enough to keep the job imo. The "Outs" are making it like we're absolutely shit while the "Ins" pretend we like we have done miracles. Truth is somewhere in the middle.
I think I have crossed over, finally, to the Ole out side. Or at least, if not Ole out, then Carrick/McKenna out. He needs his Carlos Quieroz.
I am totally confident that a few better players would jot win us the league. Even if we signed Mbappé and Neymar. Meanwhile I’m also confident that City could win the league with Gabriel Jesus up front for the entire season. We need to go back to the drawing board and modernise our game, otherwise I’d imagine that this is as far as we can go.
I am totally confident that a few better players would jot win us the league. Even if we signed Mbappé and Neymar. Meanwhile I’m also confident that City could win the league with Gabriel Jesus up front for the entire season. We need to go back to the drawing board and modernise our game, otherwise I’d imagine that this is as far as we can go.
I've had enough of people saying he's just the manager and delegates the coaching to Carrick and McKenna and that they are responsible. No the feck they aren't, this is all on Ole, he's the manager and is the one that has given them this responsibility, he's also said they are better at the coaching aspect of the game which is downright laughable.
He points to Fergie as a model but I have no doubt SAF could coach and probably did a lot of it at Aberdeen and early days at United. Bringing in new coaches was his way of introducing fresh ideas and innovation to the team. Ole is way too young and early in the game to be relying on coaches the way he does.
I bet Klopp, Pep and Tuchel probably wet themselves laughing when they heard him say he wasn't really a coach. The manager/head coach has other coaches with them to implement their style and way of play. What did Ole know about Mckenna and Carrick's coaching identity and how did they fit with his philosophy? We've got a manager with no real identity who has delegated coaching to fairly rookie coaches. That's exactly what we look like when you watch us, we just happen to have some really good players
He points to Fergie as a model but I have no doubt SAF could coach and probably did a lot of it at Aberdeen and early days at United. Bringing in new coaches was his way of introducing fresh ideas and innovation to the team. Ole is way too young and early in the game to be relying on coaches the way he does.
I bet Klopp, Pep and Tuchel probably wet themselves laughing when they heard him say he wasn't really a coach. The manager/head coach has other coaches with them to implement their style and way of play. What did Ole know about Mckenna and Carrick's coaching identity and how did they fit with his philosophy? We've got a manager with no real identity who has delegated coaching to fairly rookie coaches. That's exactly what we look like when you watch us, we just happen to have some really good players
Haha, this is it. Simple as. He got us consecutive CLs by league finish, first one since SAF, which is OK, and somewhat of an improvement. However, our inability to deliver at the business end of the season is starting to look like a habit, which isn’t good. He’ll definitely get next season though.
But don't you think that's tactics? The fact that we get so little out of Rashford/Greenwood/Pogba/Bruno on a consistent basis in bigger matches? Or is it on them.
Come on. Comparing point totals across seasons is a pretty pointless exercise, especially in a season like this. The fact that Arsenal and Spurs ended up at 8th and 7th respectively says something about how ridiculously competitive the league has become
Also, Ole did not take over a team that had just finished 2nd at 81 points. He took over a team in complete meltdown with a toxic atmosphere, dressing room unrest, bad attitudes and loads of deadwood. Ending up 3rd and 2nd while completely overhauling the core of the team is progress from the mess we were in December 2018
Dont get me wrong. I am not particularly happy about how Ole managed the game yesterday but overall Ole has steadied the ship and put us on the right path. I understand that it easy to feel a bit gloomy after losing a final on fecking PK shotouts, but there are also reasons to be positive
1. We got a good core in place now. Maguire, Shaw, AWB, Fred, Bruno, Rashford and Greenwood are all quality (maybe not Fred, but i like him personally)
2. That core and much of the supporting cast like McTomminay and Amad still have their best years ahead of them. On average we have put out the youngest starting XI this season (24.8) and from out direct competitors, only Chelsea is close at 25.3, but that line up includes the likes of Reece James, Abraham and Tomori who seems to have fallen completely out of favour with Tuchel. Also regarding Chelsea, they spent an absolute fortune last summer so i cant imagine they have the money to go on a big splurge this summer (that is assuming they follow FFP). Liverpool and City are at 26.7 and 27.2 respectively which means they are getting dangerously close to a transition
3. Outside of the starting XI we lack a fair bit of depth, but the thing is, most of those players wont be missed if they leave. De Gea, Mata, Matic, Martial, even James or Donny have contributed very little this season and can realistically be replaced by academy players without weakening us much. That means if we buy just one good player this summer (Sancho) we will be significantly stronger next season
All of those have delivered big moments in big matches, not just yesterday.
Say what you want about rotating, but those players have played way too much football this season because we are overly reliant on them. If we had Sancho or Martial did not have such a stinker of a season we could have allowed them much more rest than we have had
Must say that I agree with this.
Perhaps we do have an identity or style, but it certainly isn’t good enough. The best thing we could have done last night was camp on the edge of our own box and pray Villarreal dared to attack us. When they didn’t, we were clueless.
This here is the problem.
I don’t know you & never gave you a warning so stop making assumptions there
We don’t shit down different opinions, we shut down when threads go off track or people take it too far with insults
I'll leave it be.
In any case, I appreciate this forum and the people that enable it to function because it's executed well and provides a place for discourse, so I can hope we have an occasion to actually celebrate together soon enough.
Me too. I hope this acts as motivation and armed with some more new players we go forth and win something to get rid of this monkey off or back. I feel if we can do that then we will win more and more. But if it goes pear shaped next season after hopefully some summer investment then Ole can take it on the chin as he surely moves on
I'm always amazed that people manage to take the most positive reading of all possible events. So points mean nothing especially in this season, but according to Golden Blunder I should look at goals scored as a sign of improvement. As if the point of scoring goals is not to win games and points and so, I suppose, it can't be possible to become a worse team overall while scoring (marginally) more goals.
The fact Arsenal and Tottenham are 8th and 7th shows a ridiculously competitive league and it doesn't show an obvious decline for those clubs. If you remember Wenger's Arsenal how could you possibly say that them finishing behind West Ham and Leicester is testament to the competitiveness of the league and not their own sad state? And if the league is so competitive how come the teams that won it the last two seasons had ~100 points and were 30 points off the rest? How do you interpret competitive, competitive against what?
On your 3 points I agree that Ole has mostly a decent core (minus DM and CF, Cavani is only temporary) and I also agree that the recruitment strategy has been mostly reassuring in that it's focusing on younger players and not expensive short-term solutions. It's a bit hit and miss but he got the big ones right. Of the players that we signed for a fee (forget Ighalo and Cavani) Maguire, Bruno and AWB from his first year became part of the core but James, VDB and Telles have not contributed as much as expected. The team is lacking quality in depth as you say, yet it's better than it was on Mourinho's last year for sure.
However whatever gains he has made on improving and revitalizing the squad have been undone by his poor tactics and squad management. No discernible attacking style beyond give it to Bruno/Pogba and hope, terrible set-piece defending, not enough rotation and hardly any subs, inability to affect the game form the bench etc. This is a team that isn't performing any better than Mourinho's team in the first two years of his reign, by any stretch of the imagination. At least there's no toxic atmosphere. Ole is not getting enough out of his squad as evidenced in our cup runs and failing to beat Istanbul Basaksehir, Leicester and Villarreal when it mattered. Teams with worse starting XIs and worse benches.
In other words, Ole has done a decent job for a technical director but not for a head coach/manager to me. I don't see better signings bridging that gap created by lack of playing identity and good coaching while he's here. He's not going to be a par for Pep or Klopp he'll just be fighting for top 4. If that's the level of our ambition with double the budget of the teams below us then what can I say.
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Comparing points across seasons is not completely pointless (sorry) but there should be a sizable margin of error there. No doubt Spurs and Arsenal have delined a bit, but if you have one of the best strikers this generation and still end up 7th, then it tells you something about the quality of the competition as well. City and Pool were abnormal in 18/19 and 19/20
In any case we improved our points tally from last season and would probably have improved it even more had it not been for the fact we were nowhere match fit at the start and the fact that we had nothing to play for the last 4 games or so. Regaring goals scored there is also a lot of margin of error, but one positive to pick from here except that we score more, is that we have a lot of goal scorers, but still dont have a profilic top class CF
Tactically i think hes mostly fine. Some blunders here and there, but for the most part our set up and team selections are fine. Besides an obvious blind spot for Rashford i dont think hes shown any glaring issues,
I said it earlier, Ole does very little of the actual coaching, but hes still responsible for picking his coaches and i fully agree there are room for improvements in that regard. Not going to speculate about the credentials and skills of Phelan et al, but there is no doubt some obvious problems here that needs adressing. Set pieces is the obvious one.
Regarding parked buses though i think the problem runs a bit deeper than just (lack of) coaching. Unless Pogba plays in the pivot, we have no one with any serious passing ability centrally and hes a bit of a liability defensively. Since everyone is aware of Bruno now, hes usually closely watched and that leads to us struggling to thread the ball through the middle. The whole "give it to Bruno and let him sort it out" joke has some truth to it, but i dont think thats by design and its more down to Fred and McTomminay lacking the technical and/or passing ability to beat press and make progressive passes regularaly. Put Scholes in that MF and a lot of our woes would be solved.
Our inability to pass through the center means we very often attack through the wings and herein lies problem #2: We dont really have any natural wide players. Pogba, Rashford and Greenwood are fine there, but i would not call any of them wingers. Greenwood i think shows a lot of promise at RW, but is still just a teenager and is bound to be inconsitent. Pogba and Rashford can be brilliant at LW if they are in form, but both of them are completely useless there when not in form. In any case all three of them are more comfortable drifting inside which means much of the creative burden in the final third ends up on the fullbacks. Shaw has no doubt been terrific this season, but AWB, even though i think hes imporving, is hardly a great attacking fullback and has lots to learn regarding positioning and movement in attack
If we had a more press resitant DM/CM with the ability to pick a pass i am confident we would become much better at attacking centrally. If we had a proper winger who could consistently beat his man and whip in good crosses im sure Cavani would have had twice as many goals as he had. Not saying our coaching cant be better, because it can but i am pretty sure that adding a Sanco + a CM with some passing ability and we become much harder to deal with
Love Ole as a person and player but the way the season ended in the league and yesterday has left a real sour taste in my mouth and I can't help but feel like we've peaked under him.
We keep getting outmanaged in big games and his record in must win cup matches leaves much to be desired. Starting to get the feeling that we won't be able to achieve our aims under his stewardship.
I don't think he'll get sacked soon as he's been largely unproblematic for ownership but I feel that wouldn't be the case if we were a club focused on on the pitch success. Chelsea sacked Sarri coming off a Europa victory and a year and some change later they're in the CL final.
Again I've got nothing against Ole personally and wouldn't mind him being involved with the club in another capacity but I've lost quite some faith in him being the one to guide us back to the top
We keep getting outmanaged in big games and his record in must win cup matches leaves much to be desired. Starting to get the feeling that we won't be able to achieve our aims under his stewardship.
I don't think he'll get sacked soon as he's been largely unproblematic for ownership but I feel that wouldn't be the case if we were a club focused on on the pitch success. Chelsea sacked Sarri coming off a Europa victory and a year and some change later they're in the CL final.
Again I've got nothing against Ole personally and wouldn't mind him being involved with the club in another capacity but I've lost quite some faith in him being the one to guide us back to the top
Exactly. I can see why the extremes of both camps are frustrated but its true. Going to be a long summer break
Fully agree. Good post.
Very valuable contribution. Proving that "being supportive as a fan should be" doesn't really make you a better person.
Hear hear. The most truth. Should be pinned on top of the mainpage next to the redcafe logo for the next 5 days.
Yes. I'd add we have to face the current environment and therefor football has changed. When your competitors employ a more structured approach how to play the game, than at some point have to follow them because "express yourself and play direct like the United way" isn't reliably going to cut it.
Yes, which is something, that came to my mind. I remember Bayern being in a similar situation squad wise, during the van Gaal era. They were very dominant possession-wise but they couldn't penetrate the defenses. They resorted back to the basics. If you can't beat them pretty, do it like the mid-table clubs do: make use of set pieces. It is borderline criminal that we are not just pretty uncomfortable defending them, we are bad at making use of them as well. We have quite a few big players, obviously I am not suggesting to change United Attack Plan A to set pieces, but having several arrows in the quiver is a necessity. Shoot from distance, cross it high and low, take the set pieces. You don't have to be great it, it might be enough to be good enough to force a mistake from a defender.
Yeah I guess we should take a loss to the submarines like nothing and skip around the park? I guess that's acceptable now at Man United
But, but, but we were unbeaten away in the league.
This.
Fair enough if you want to debate your side but is this post really additive? Just seems insulting for the sake of it.
It is bad coaching when you get the keeper to go the wrong way for every penalty. It is bad coaching when you cannot see that your players are dead on your feet. It is bad coaching when our defence cannot defend a high ball nor can we score from a set piece. It is bad coaching when time and again we cannot break down a low block. It is not that keeper was brilliant during the whole match. Now if we had scored first, we probably would have won this game. We would have won if Rashford had not missed a sitter too ass they would have to attack us more. We can only play if other teams give us space behind them.
Why? its the truth every single thread on this site is full of these moaning entitled brats saying the same thing over and over.
The sad thing is you can tell they wanted us to lose so they can vent their hatred on Ole over and over
The absolute hysterics from you lot regarding others disappointment over our record in big matches isn't any better than these 'entitled brats' voicing their opinion on a forum...
If it bothers you so much there's an ignore function if you want to gloss over issues at the club and avoid posts.
If not then you'll just have to accept the fact that those 'moaners' are entitled to a voice just as much as you are.
I do think they should have brought Rene Mulstein in as part of the coaching setup. We do seem clueless on the pitch at times especially when up against the low block and set piece. We even seem to have lost some of our counter attacking prowess this year.
Manchester United and modern don't go in the same sentence.
We're still trying to re-create SAF.
We will never learn.
It'll be a long time until we challenge for the Premier League again.
Mainly because the form of Rashford and Martial fell off a cliff
This is pretty much bang on.
If OGS was Mourinho, he'd be getting hounded by everyone on here.
Neither are good enough. 1 smiles more and represents the club way better, so he'll get way more leeway.
I mean Ole in guys are right to some extent, it’s silly to criticize Ole for the bad coaching because he doesn’t do any as he alluded himself.
We are wasting the potential of this team under a tactically clueless manager.
Teams are outplaying us now.
Teams are outplaying us now.
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this nonsense again
Honestly some of the shite posted. You’d think we are a pub team
Team outplaying us again.
huh. Okay.
huh. Okay.
No, but the team we just lost to were.
Ok. Let’s judge after 6 games I think your a bit disrespectful to the opposition there. Let’s just hope they put the same energy and get lucky against the other teams in the group
Pub team manager
They're being criminally underrated. They were excellent tonight after the red and deserve their win.
On the other hand we deserved the point.
Ffs Jesse.
Lets wait until the seasons over to state something thats been clear for over 3 seasons now.