So now what happens to Karim Benzema? | Hat-tricks, lots of hat-tricks

[Lay]

@Drygon the reason I put Suarez over Benzema even if his UCL performances aren’t as great, is because at his peak, as in at Liverpool and then Barcelona, he was unplayable. If I wasn’t so biased against Liverpool, I’d put Suarez very high in the all time EPL players list.

I’m glad he went to Barcelona so I could watch him objectively. He may at times not been as technically tight as Messi or Neymar, but he was frighteningly good.

 

[BalanceUnAutreJoint]

Did you just say Benzema is as good as Prime Thierry Henry?

I said Benzema's career G+A/minutes obliterates Henry's by like a 15 minutes gap which is MASSIVE at that level, and that is despite Henry scoring 50 goals and assisting 30 in freakin MLS.
So yes. Benzema IS statistically better than Henry.

And he's gonna overtake both his club record (353 for Benz currently, 361 for Henry) and club+nt records (384 for Benz currently, 411 for Henry)

He also already has more career assists.

 

[Jaxa]

@Drygon the reason I put Suarez over Benzema even if his UCL performances aren’t as great, is because at his peak, as in at Liverpool and then Barcelona, he was unplayable. If I wasn’t so biased against Liverpool, I’d put Suarez very high in the all time EPL players list.

I’m glad he went to Barcelona so I could watch him objectively. He may at times not been as technically tight as Messi or Neymar, but he was frighteningly good.

I would agree, i despise the man that Suarez is but if we're talking purely football only, that period between his last 2 seasons at Liverpool and his first 3 seasons are Barcelona he was a monster, for me he was just under Ronaldo & Messi in terms of best players in the world at that point, lethal.

 

[duffer]

I said Benzema's career G+A/minutes obliterates Henry's by like a 15 minutes gap which is MASSIVE at that level, and that is despite Henry scoring 50 goals and assisting 30 in freakin MLS.
So yes. Benzema IS statistically better than Henry.

And he's gonna overtake both his club record (353 for Benz currently, 361 for Henry) and club+nt records (384 for Benz currently, 411 for Henry)

He also already has more career assists.

To he fair, Henry was at Arsenal for nearly a decade playing with the like of Bendtner and Walcott while Benzena had Ronaldo and Modric.

Comparing stats when they're at clubs of wildly different quality is kinda pointless.

 

[GatoLoco]

And while we are at it, I wasn't aware he had equaled Raul's record in CL.

 

[DWelbz19]

Henry was still at the club when Walcott and Bendtner started playing? Wow, one of those weird time distortion facts. Like the "we lived closer in age to Cleopatra than she did to the Pyramids"

 

[duffer]

Henry was still at the club when Walcott and Bendtner started playing? Wow, one of those weird time distortion facts. Like the "we lived closer in age to Cleopatra than she did to the Pyramids"

Yeah, Bendtner joined in 05, Walcott in 06.

Henry fecked off to Barca in 07. Can't blame him!

 

[Korwas]

Mindblowing stat of the day. Club careers:
Shearer: 734 games, 379 goals
Benzema: 734 games, 368 goals

 

[BalanceUnAutreJoint]

To he fair, Henry was at Arsenal for nearly a decade playing with the like of Bendtner and Walcott while Benzena had Ronaldo and Modric.

Comparing stats when they're at clubs of wildly different quality is kinda pointless.

Henry did not play with these two for most of his Arsenal career tbf.

And Benzema's career numbers could've been better if he joined a club where he could be the main man for a full decade, taking pens in the process.

 

[troylocker]

I think you're old enough not to compare a team sport with sprinting.

If you compare athletes based on their merits, Aguero, Kane, Zlatan and Higuain won 0 Champions Leagues, 0 squared, where are their merits?
Goals scored count to shit if you don't win stuff, my opinion is that's the merit in a team sport, not who scores the most.

I'm a stats guy myself, that's what I do for work, but I'd never use stats to compare two humans in such a linear manner as stats tell you only one side of a story.
I'm going to ask you a simple question, not being condescending or anything like that, an F12 Berlinetta is slower than a Tesla Model S in all categories bar top speed, which is the better car? Or let's imagine a scenario, if Messi retired at Barca and scored 700 goals, while Zlatan played for a gazillion of clubs and scored 700 goals, who's the better player using only stats?

I'm not being deliberately obtuse, I can see your point and, until a certain level, I agree with it. But you can't come on a football fans forum (being a fan instantly brings emotion and feeling into the conversation) and ask them to say "which is the better player based on these stats" because we'd not be fans anymore, we'd just be competitors on Who wants to be a billionaire.

I'm not mooting your point or your work, I'm not the type of guy to take my opinion and slap you in the face with it, I'm just trying to say that stats don't take emotion into account and individual results in a team based game don't really mean much in regards to the overall performance of the team as there are other variables at play, like effort, commitment, coach, tactics, compatibility, hell even fans, so the comparison is too blunt.

I can also put using the brain of a liverpool supporter : "If Higuain, Zlatan, Kane and Aguero would have been top players at their peak, they would've dragged their team to a champions league"(or, in case of Harry "I'm English" Kane, to at least a fecking Carabao cup).

You're not wrong of course, but for strikers and goalscorers I still think goalscoring- and contributionratios by minutes (or % of teams total goals) in different tourneys and for NT are good indicators on how good they are as #9s. It doesn't tell the whole story of course, and every player plays a different role in a different setup against different opposition, so in the end its impossible to objectively claim that one is better than the other in tight cases. It all comes down to the taste of the spectator... Personally I think Lewa, Haaland and Kane are better strikers and goalscorers than Benzema, while Benzema has some tricks up his sleeve that the other 3 don't. As a second striker I would probably prefer Benz out of the four.

 

[troylocker]

To he fair, Henry was at Arsenal for nearly a decade playing with the like of Bendtner and Walcott while Benzena had Ronaldo and Modric.

Comparing stats when they're at clubs of wildly different quality is kinda pointless.

Funny that you mention Bendtner (was 18 when Henry left and never played with him) and Walcott (was 17 when Henry left) out of the lot Henry had next to him in his Arsenal-time, while you bring up Ronaldo and Modric for Benzema. Henry had some decent players next to him as well:
Bergkamp, Pires, Vieira, Fabregas, Van Persie etc.....

 

[Dave Smith]

Henry did not play with these two for most of his Arsenal career tbf.

And Benzema's career numbers could've been better if he joined a club where he could be the main man for a full decade, taking pens in the process.

Yeah, Benzema would be much more highly regarded if he had joined another club. He essentially lived 80% of his career (+ all of his peak) in CR7's shadow.

 

[tidraKS]

Is he done at Madrid? What level club would go for him? Would he be content being a backup for Lukaku?

Hahaha backup for Lukaku. How times have changed.

 

[Morty_]

You can never rate footballers on stats. Eye test will always be better. Even minutes per game doesn’t show whether your team was trying to see out the game or having a go at the other team . Benzema is a great striker but not better than Suarez, Arguero, Lewandoski.

he is definitely better than Higuain. I’m honestly not sure about Zlatan and Cavani as I never really watched them enough to have an opinion. The few times I watched Inter , I preferred Adriano

Curious, what makes Aguero better than Benzema?

 

[BalanceUnAutreJoint]

You can never rate footballers on stats. Eye test will always be better. Even minutes per game doesn’t show whether your team was trying to see out the game or having a go at the other team . Benzema is a great striker but not better than Suarez, Arguero, Lewandoski.

he is definitely better than Higuain. I’m honestly not sure about Zlatan and Cavani as I never really watched them enough to have an opinion. The few times I watched Inter , I preferred Adriano

I agree that Suarez and Lewandowski are better than Benzema

But they're not better on eyetest, Benzema is clear of both in that regard, better technically, more versatile, contributes a lot more to his team's overall game and could legitimately play as an AM if he wanted to.

They're better off pure goal/assist involvement, nothing else.

 

[B20]

I agree that Suarez and Lewandowski are better than Benzema

But they're not better on eyetest, Benzema is clear of both in that regard, better technically, more versatile, contributes a lot more to his team's overall game and could legitimately play as an AM if he wanted to.

They're better off pure goal/assist involvement, nothing else.

That is simply untrue. Suarez may not be as elegant, but he goes through a lot more good work in a game than Benzema. He's a level above.

 

[BalanceUnAutreJoint]

That is simply untrue. Suarez may not be as elegant, but he goes through a lot more good work in a game than Benzema. He's a level above.

That's utter nonsense. You obviously don't watch much of La Liga if you think so.
Suarez is better by virtue of being involved in a goal or assist every 82 minutes in his career compared to 94 minutes for Benzema, as simple as that.

Beyond that he's not as good technically, doesn't provide nearly as much once you remove goals/assists, doesn't drop deep to help his team out of a press, isn't nearly as versatile or complete either.

Earlier this year Van Gaal called him a player who can't do anything but finish chances rather than a proper top player, why do you think that is? He got older and is no longer as fit as before, but why has he become so clumsy in his overall game? I'll tell you why : He was never elite technically, you don't lose technique when you get older or slightly overweight.

 

[carvajal]

His current performance is summed up is that it makes me forget how good Haaland is and how great his signing would be.
At this age he may hit a physical slump from one day to the next but currently he does everything well

 

[Tom Cato]

He scores goals but I just can't bring myself to rate him all that much. He's not a gamebreaker.

 

[Jim Beam]

Fabulous striker. Scoring, assisting, hold up play, link up, movement, workrate... Has it all.

By the time he finishes his career and if he doesn't get injured he will be Madrid's all-time assist provider and 2nd on their all-time goalscoring list (currently 30 short of Raul).

 

[Lebo]

Curious, what makes Aguero better than Benzema?

dribbles better and is tougher. Also has this annoying ball retention when marked. If I was a defender, I’ll chose to mark Benzema over Arguero honestly. His only disadvantage is that he never really played in a great team like Benzema or Lewandowski and the injuries.

by the way Ronaldo(R9)might be having worse stats but he is definitely better than any other attacker not named Messi or CR7.

 

[gibers]

dribbles better and is tougher. Also has this annoying ball retention when marked. If I was a defender, I’ll chose to mark Benzema over Arguero honestly. His only disadvantage is that he never really played in a great team like Benzema or Lewandowski and the injuries.

by the way Ronaldo(R9)might be having worse stats but he is definitely better than any other attacker not named Messi or CR7.

Aguero could never hold up the ball, Aguero was not a better passer or better at linking up play or better technically in terms of touch and control, Aguero was nowhere near as good in the air while Benz is one of the best in the air. The only area Aguero beats Benzema in in his prime is possibly finishing and even thge last few seaosns Benz finishing has been better than anything Aguero did, this Benzema is better than any version of Aguero. Put this Benzema in City and they would be the best team in the world, put Aguero in his prime and Pep would still bench him

At this moment, Benzema is playing at Ballon D'or winner level in Madrid. Aguero has simply never played at this level.

 

[B20]

That's utter nonsense. You obviously don't watch much of La Liga if you think so.
Suarez is better by virtue of being involved in a goal or assist every 82 minutes in his career compared to 94 minutes for Benzema, as simple as that.

Beyond that he's not as good technically, doesn't provide nearly as much once you remove goals/assists, doesn't drop deep to help his team out of a press, isn't nearly as versatile or complete either.

Earlier this year Van Gaal called him a player who can't do anything but finish chances rather than a proper top player, why do you think that is? He got older and is no longer as fit as before, but why has he become so clumsy in his overall game? I'll tell you why : He was never elite technically, you don't lose technique when you get older or slightly overweight.

Maybe now, that Suarez is getting on.

But peak Suarez was everything you could ask for in an attacker.

If you think " a player who can't do anything but finish chances rather than a proper top player" is in any way descriptive of Suarez at his peak, and you seem to be, since you take this as a platform for arguing he was never 'elite' technically, then you I don't think you ever watched him then.

I saw the clumsiness back when he was at Liverpool too. His innate technique was not at the level of, say, Coutinho. Nonetheless, he regularly pulled off technical feats far more often and of far higher quality than Coutinho.

You can say that this erraticness means he was never 'elite' technically but who the feck cares. He was outrageously good and definitely a level above Benzema's best.

 

[BalanceUnAutreJoint]

Maybe now, that Suarez is getting on.

But peak Suarez was everything you could ask for in an attacker.

If you think " a player who can't do anything but finish chances rather than a proper top player" is in any way descriptive of Suarez at his peak, and you seem to be, since you take this as a platform for arguing he was never 'elite' technically, then you I don't think you ever watched him then.

I saw the clumsiness back when he was at Liverpool too. His innate technique was not at the level of, say, Coutinho. Nonetheless, he regularly pulled off technical feats far more often and of far higher quality than Coutinho.

You can say that this erraticness means he was never 'elite' technically but who the feck cares. He was outrageously good and definitely a level above Benzema's best.

I did not describe Suarez as a such player, he had more to his game than G+A when he was younger and fit, but his overall game was NEVER on Benzema's level. It is his output that makes him better.

Overall game Benzema > Prime Suarez.
Output Prime Suarez > Benzema.

 

[pacifictheme]

This has become a poor man's Messi v ronaldo.

 

[Idxomer]

Should get the ballon d'or really.

 

[Drygon]

Should get the ballon d'or really.

Winning a meaningsless trophy in a glorified friendly cup tournaments isn't gonna move the needle for Benzema to win Ballon d'Or 2021...

Benzema has 0 arguments against Messi/Lewandowski as they've better stats, became top scorers & won actual meaningsful titles.

 

[BridgeBanter]

He scores goals but I just can't bring myself to rate him all that much. He's not a gamebreaker.

Nonsense take

 

[kouroux]

Should get the ballon d'or really.

No way. He's been amazing for sure but not Ballon d'Or worthy

 

[Idxomer]

No way. He's been amazing for sure but not Ballon d'Or worthy

Just wumming a bit, he isn't far off the frontrunners though.

I don't think there has been an obvious best player in the world in the last 12 months.

 

[kouroux]

Just wumming a bit, he isn't far off the frontrunners though.

I don't think there has been an obvious best player in the world in the last 12 months.

He's not far talent and performance wise for me tbh. He is an amazing player

 

[DutchCruijff]

Benzema won't even get Top 5 let alone win the thing.

Messi, Jorginho, Lewandowski and Kante all ahead.

Kane had a better season too.

 

[the_cliff]

It's actually not as far off as people think. He's definitely been the best player in the world since the start of this season.

21G+A in all competitions, we're still in October.

9 Goals + 7 Assists in 7 games so far in La Liga. Not to mention scoring important/wonderful goals in the semi final and final of this competition.

Funny how people were comparing him to Kane/Cavani/Higuain only 2 pages back. Benzemas scored more final goals today than Kane/Cavani/Higuain have in their careers combined. A lot has been said about his stats compared to other strikers, one thing that sways in Benzema's favour is that he's scored important goals in big games, goals in semi finals and finals, I'd like to see the comparisons for goals in semis/finals compared to the other attackers.

 

[Drygon]

If Karim Benzema retired now, do you think he's one of the best strikers in football history (not just among his peers in 2010s decade)?

Has Benzema done enough to be viewed on same level as Van Basten, Suarez, R9, Lewandowski, Romario, Gerd Muller, Ferenc Puskas etc. in their primes?

 

[the_cliff]

If Karim Benzema retired now, do you think he's one of the best strikers in football history (not just among his peers in 2010s decade)?

Has Benzema done enough to be viewed on same level as Van Basten, Suarez, R9, Lewandowski, Romario, Gerd Muller, Ferenc Puskas etc. in their primes?

If you include Suarez and Lewa 100 %. In fact, Henry recently had him number 2 after CR7 as the second best UCL striker in history which is fair. You can't be the second best ucl striker in history and not be mentioned in that list.

 

[BalanceUnAutreJoint]

If Karim Benzema retired now, do you think he's one of the best strikers in football history (not just among his peers in 2010s decade)?

Has Benzema done enough to be viewed on same level as Van Basten, Suarez, R9, Lewandowski, Romario, Gerd Muller, Ferenc Puskas etc. in their primes?

How do you even compare the likes of Puskas to Van Basten/Muller and how do you even compare Van Basten/Muller to modern strikers?
The game has evolved way too much for us to be doing these silly comparisons. This is like the Messi vs Pelé vs Maradona debate.

If you asked me I think any of Gerd Muller,Puskas,Di Stefano,Pele,Garrincha would struggle on a modern football pitch, with how good modern footballers are both technically AND physically, but that doesn't take away what they did in their time. It's all down to personal opinion of what makes someone great

 

[BalanceUnAutreJoint]

Benzema won't even get Top 5 let alone win the thing.

Messi, Jorginho, Lewandowski and Kante all ahead.

Kane had a better season too.

Kante was having an extremely average season until the CL semis. You don't know what you're talking about I feel.

 

[Fortitude]

Benzema's longevity is insane. He was a prodigy at Lyon and the striker I always wished we could land, and that was the fast, dribbling version who was like Ronaldo lite. He's shown, throughout his career how intelligent and adaptable he is and shows no signs of decline as he simply modifies his game accordingly.

He's getting more recognition now as he's no longer C.Ronaldo's foil, but he has been outstanding out the gate and maintained it in a way prodigies rarely do.

 

[MrEleson]

dribbles better and is tougher. Also has this annoying ball retention when marked. If I was a defender, I’ll chose to mark Benzema over Arguero honestly. His only disadvantage is that he never really played in a great team like Benzema or Lewandowski and the injuries.

by the way Ronaldo(R9)might be having worse stats but he is definitely better than any other attacker not named Messi or CR7.

Current Benzema is better than any version of Aguero.

 

[MrEleson]

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