When did Fury have mental health problems in 2013? He was on the trail of a world title shot I’m sure he was focused. If you’re going down that train of thought then everyone ever has a out to as why they were beaten or under performed.
The RedCafe Boxing Thread
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You're not answering the crux of the question; even if you took the mental health aspect out of the way, the point would still stand - even if you took all the 'excuses' out, the same would apply in that using a nadir/low point isn't a reflection of the fighter as all are assessed on their best form not worst and all the fighters you listed would be highly fallible, if not moreso than Fury, using your own logic.
No I’m not, I’m saying a prime Fury 2015 or 2021 would not beat any of those fighters at the peak of their powers I think that goes without saying and two years between a hungry contender and prime world champion isn’t a massive yard stick to judge one on.
https://www.boxingscene.com/amp/tys...er-trilogy-fight-compubox-punch-stats--161138
shows how completely outclassed Wilder was
shows how completely outclassed Wilder was
Wilder took a hell of a beating so he did.
Lewis lost in two to McCall in what is considered one of the greatest upsets in heavyweight history; Lewis was absolutely embarrassed in a loss to fodder Rahman. If those losses were used to define one of the greatest heavyweights of the 90's and how he'd fare in a fantasy matchup against other great h/w's it would be complete redundant as an argument.
Ali, considered the greatest of all-time in the heavyweight division, got dropped by no-marks in relative terms and fighters who were cruiserweights; we don't use those are markers of his punch resistance seeing as he went on to withstand the worst punishment imaginable to utilise the rope a dope.
The list goes on and in and makes no sense to use as a marker because they are not representative of the boxer's apex.
Fury 2015 is not the same as Fury 2021 who has now added a whole new arsenal and style to what he had back then. If you are saying Fury loses outright, that's different to what you initially said, and what I contested.
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“A lumbering target.” I’m trying to be constructive here, but do you actually watch much boxing? He’s movement and footwork is of a very high standard compared to most heavyweights.
Not much recently but he looks like some fat journeyman that Lewis, Hollyfield or Tyson at their peak would have dispatched with ease.
Because Lewis, Holllyfield [sic] and Tyson all cleaned up against journeymen…
Well that’s true.
For what it is worth, this is how BoxRec ranks heavyweights using a data-driven approach based on their all-time record:
If boxing was determined by physique, Fury would not even be an amateur and Ken Norton would be the best boxer who ever stepped inside the ring with Bruno not far behind.
For what it is worth, this is how BoxRec ranks heavyweights using a data-driven approach based on their all-time record:
Anthony Joshua ahead of Mike Tyson.No George Foreman or Larry Holmes in there must be going of loses.For what it is worth, this is how BoxRec ranks heavyweights using a data-driven approach based on their all-time record:
Has that moron who asked Fury if he thinks he'll get depressed again had any kickback?
I'm sure if Fury hadn't long come out of a draining contest, he could have slaughtered that guy there and then and used that same platform as an opportunity to educate an audience.
I sincerely hope that comment is not swept under the rug. It was disgusting thing to ask and to do so so flippantly also highlighted serious disregard, ignorance or both.
I'm sure if Fury hadn't long come out of a draining contest, he could have slaughtered that guy there and then and used that same platform as an opportunity to educate an audience.
I sincerely hope that comment is not swept under the rug. It was disgusting thing to ask and to do so so flippantly also highlighted serious disregard, ignorance or both.
I never actually heard the interview but it was a real stupid and inconsiderate thing to say to anyone.
Lewis' position is impressive given the relatively few fights on his record. That said - that might be the reason he's number one - their model probably weights fights identically. Which would explain why Tyson is so low and Wlad so high.For what it is worth, this is how BoxRec ranks heavyweights using a data-driven approach based on their all-time record:
He threw it out so flippantly it caught Fury off guard and he stumbled over his reply with a hushed 'hope not' had he been in his right mind, I'm sure he'd have taken the guy to task.
What's worse is what kind of answer was the idiot expecting to get? What could possibly be achieved by asking a question like that?
Journalists can be ignorant cnuts that's for sure.
I think Lewis has a really impressive record, was beat twice with hammer blows out of nowhere but rectified them both and beat a hell of a lot of top heavyweights on his way.
I recognise the voice and know he's the floppy, dark-haired one with the glasses with a high profile in the UK at least - he's been on BT Sports talking about boxing and the history of the sport a fair bit, but I don't know his name.
It's seriously concerning that someone with such a high profile, no doubt with staff under him, can use one of the biggest post-fight platforms this century to say something so offensively ignorant. He really should be called out on it.
Lewis looked second best against Bruno till the lucky punch, also he struggled against Tony Tucker who was well past his prime. I think Fury takes Lewis.
It's quite complicated here, https://ringsideboxingnews.com/the-infamous-boxrec-ranking-systems-formula-explained-in-detail/
Well Mike Tyson lost to Danny Williams and Kevin McBride. That will obviously tank your record.
Dunno, it's so hard to call: Lewis' jab is the great equaliser in almost any contest and he has composure and know-how once he knows his opponent, but he never fought anyone as fleet-footed as Fury or as massive and odd, so it distorts things a lot.
Outside of Ali pre-ban, and Cus Tyson, nearly all the fantasy contests are right in the middle of the ring with exchanges and wits over ridiculous movement and beguiling footwork and someone as massive as Fury presents problems in that regard these guys didn't deal with in their legendary battles with each other.
I don't think these contests are washes, though, well, outside of the ones where one style is custom-made to take out another.
There's no way a reporter asked that question without being briefed to do so by an editor.
Explanation from the reporter, Gareth Davies (Telegraph), included in the video below - skip to 13 mins in. I've listened to him a fair bit over the years and I do believe him in that it wasn't meant maliciously but he acknowledges it didn't come across well. Tbh I rarely see journos owning their mistakes so fair play to him.
I can see why he said it being a journalist, just trying to get the mental health thing shoe horned in somewhere but put his foot in it.
His reasoning doesn't quite add up and he should have padded out and prepped the question far better if he meant well by asking it.
Throwing something like that out into the public domain is sensitive at the best of times and the ways he asked must have gotten him a lot of flack, and rightly so. He says he knows the Fury family well etc. so it most likely wasn't asked maliciously, but it was bone-headed and he should have to answer to that and at least right the wrongs of putting a comment like that out in such a lackadaisical manner.
Those damn hands at 62 years old.
Gareth A Davies, or the GAD as he's known as in boxing circles. He's known for being a tit.
I don't think Fury's overall performance was that amazing but describing Fury as a fat lump is doing him a massive disservice as a boxer for a number of reasons:
- He deliberately put on weight for Wilder. He got screwed on the scorecards in the first fight, so he wisely decided that his path to victory was by stoppage, especially after he had success against him in the 12th round of the first fight and knew he could hurt him.
- He's been out of the ring for nearly two years. Ring rust was a factor for both fighters in this bout.
In terms of boxing skills, Fury is a very good heavyweight and that remains so. Any HW who puts on 20 pounds will lose something in their defence, foot movement, angles, etc. What is true is that Wilder is a unique kind of opponent in the sense that he doesn't throw an awful lot, but what he does throw could potentially end the fight in a few seconds. You have to try and knock him out by making the calculated risk of putting him on his back foot. But making an overall assessment of Fury as a boxer based on this fight is very myopic, especially after Fury boxed the pants off Wilder in the first fight and put in a more impressive performance technically at 250 pounds.
Personally, I do think this version of Fury would be exposed against a better boxer, but against Wilder is was exactly the right strategy to have adopted.
- He deliberately put on weight for Wilder. He got screwed on the scorecards in the first fight, so he wisely decided that his path to victory was by stoppage, especially after he had success against him in the 12th round of the first fight and knew he could hurt him.
- He's been out of the ring for nearly two years. Ring rust was a factor for both fighters in this bout.
In terms of boxing skills, Fury is a very good heavyweight and that remains so. Any HW who puts on 20 pounds will lose something in their defence, foot movement, angles, etc. What is true is that Wilder is a unique kind of opponent in the sense that he doesn't throw an awful lot, but what he does throw could potentially end the fight in a few seconds. You have to try and knock him out by making the calculated risk of putting him on his back foot. But making an overall assessment of Fury as a boxer based on this fight is very myopic, especially after Fury boxed the pants off Wilder in the first fight and put in a more impressive performance technically at 250 pounds.
Personally, I do think this version of Fury would be exposed against a better boxer, but against Wilder is was exactly the right strategy to have adopted.
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I don’t know. Apart from Lewis, Foreman, Ali, I think Fury beats all of them. He’s got excellent recovery powers, and a lot of smarts. I see him surviving early against Tyson, then taking him apart second half of the contest.
The one thing I would say is Fury has and continues to get better. I remember his early career and I honestly thought he had no chance of making it.
If he stays healthy and wants it he will get even better.
A great heavyweight title fight. I’d give Wilder credit for making it interesting and for his courage but his lack of sportsmanship and overall character force me to hold back. I’m sure he’ll have the excuses flowing in a few days.
Fury wasn’t at his best, seemed out of shape, but he got the job done. He’s beaten him three times and has taken his best shots. This was a brutal beating, and Wilder will no doubt have left a huge part of himself in the ring. Those knockdowns, especially the final one where big.
Fury wasn’t at his best, seemed out of shape, but he got the job done. He’s beaten him three times and has taken his best shots. This was a brutal beating, and Wilder will no doubt have left a huge part of himself in the ring. Those knockdowns, especially the final one where big.
I see the new thing is Joshua doesn't have any heart. Nevermind how he heat Klitschko, came back from being rocked by Whyte and changed his style to outbox Ruiz. He doesn't have heart because Usyk, one of the P4P greats, beat him easily.
I see Tyson chopping down to the body and landing the upper cut if Fury try’s to clinch, Mike had tremendous physical ability and powerful legs I don’t see Fury's weight being a problem in the early rounds (which I don’t think he would get past).
I was thinking the same, just mental anyone would think that. I saw someone make a list of the 20 best boxers of all time and they had Fury ALI Tyson as top 3 and Wilder was in the list as well.He’s beat one shit boxer 3 times and Wlad in 6 years.
”One of the all time best”
Fury is getting better in many people's minds each time he beats up Wilder. He may as well fight him another 7 times and knock him all over the shop for an even 10, after that people will have him up there with Ali.
He's class Fury, but make no mistake, Wilder is crap, so the only really impressive result Fury's had in the last decade is versus Wlad. Beating Wilder after the hiatus and weight gain deserves credit of course, but due to the comeback, not due to the opponent.
And yet according to folk in here, he's now "one of the GOAT'S", although he wasn't after the second Wilder fight so beating him up again is what put him there. For others he's apparently "got no-one left to fight". It's complete nuts
Yup and even then that Wlad was some sort of poor imitation. I think even he has said he didn’t prepare properly for that fight. But yeah in part I think it’s been the over-rating of Wilder that’s got this going. Knocking out failed NBA players come boxers padding his record have twisted people’s opinions of what good boxing actually is or requires.Fury is getting better in many people's minds each time he beats up Wilder. He may as well fight him another 7 times and knock him all over the shop for an even 10, after that people will have him up there with Ali.
He's class Fury, but make no mistake, Wilder is crap, so the only really impressive result Fury's had in the last decade is versus Wlad. Beating Wilder after the hiatus and weight gain deserves credit of course, but due to the comeback, not due to the opponent.
And yet according to folk in here, he's now "one of the GOAT'S", although he wasn't after the second Wilder fight so beating him up again is what put him there. For others he's apparently "got no-one left to fight". It's complete nuts
Fury is clearly good, but once he works his way through Parker, Ruiz, Whyte,Uysk, Povetkin, AJ then maybe he can start making a claim for best boxer of his generation. As for Wilder he’s not fought any off that list and should probably start looking in to it although I think all 6 would probably beat him.