No excuses for racism
The RedCafe Boxing Thread
- Thread starter CLK_FPC
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
I think it is more that likely. But we don’t talk about it because we don’t like to think about it.
Not really true though and it’s a stupid attitude that prevents education.
Fury has some amazing recovery powers. The punch Wilder landed on him for that first knockdown I can't believe anyone else would have gotten up let alone take over again so quickly.
It was just landed so perfectly and the effect should have been devastating.
Hopefully Wilder will retire now as he may have heart and a great punch but is severely lacking skills wise.
It was just landed so perfectly and the effect should have been devastating.
Hopefully Wilder will retire now as he may have heart and a great punch but is severely lacking skills wise.
Can't see Fury playing that badly against anybody that he remotely respects.
Could watch any combination of Fury, Wilder, Usyk and Joshua fight every few months for the next few years. Some great heavyweight fights so far and some more to come hopefully. Didn’t think last night’s fight was as good as many of those others in recent years, but still enthralling. Wilder vs Joshua feels like an obvious fight to make if the belts are elsewhere and one of them needs a big win to rehab a career.
Usyk’s ludicrously underrated. The man spends his life travelling around the world, listening to his next opponent tell everyone that he’ll finally be the one to knock him out, before outboxing him and taking his belts. Fury would be favourite for me because of his size, but it would be his most difficult fight and another 60-40 tough one to call. It’s the fight I now want to see most for all the marbles.
By who?
Surely Fury is just too big for Usyk?
By the general populace still. The connoisseurs give him his due, but a lot of the big fight fans and less specialist media don’t give him his due. This thread is a pretty good example over the years. The build up to the Bellew fights and the Joshua fights said a lot – and the reaction to them too. Most saw Joshua-Usyk as a bad loss for Joshua, rather than yet another crowning moment for Usyk.
If Fury doesn’t knock him out – and he’s not the biggest puncher after all, then probably not.
For me it feels like the sort of fight that is almost won in the training camps. If Fury come in heavy and tries to bully him, then Usyk has a clear path to victory using his superior movement to outpoint him. If Fury also aims to use his footwork and movement in the ring, that could take Usyk’s edge away. It could be an incredible fight.
imagine if Fury got ripped, he'd be absolutely unstoppable
There's too many question marks with Tyson. Not many question marks with Usyk. My money is on Oleksandr
There’s a big question mark around Usyk as well, namely that he has to fight AJ again. Joshua will improve in fight 2, just as he did against Ruiz. As we’ve seen in the trajectories of Wilder and AJ in recent years, there are no guarantees that Fury and Usyk will ever fight.
It is true. If a grown man is racist, they’re racist and should be criticised for being so. Let’s not try and explain it away, that’s pathetic behaviour.
And that's why it's all shit.... no one fights anyone at optimal time, maybe at a push Canelo-GGG in the last, what, 10-15 years? And that's why, if you ignore judging and the result.... those are 2 absolute all time classics, forget best of the modern era. I don't what the likes of The Rock is smoking thinking last night was anywhere close. Fury battered him.
Im sure he’s made a lot of comments he regrets, he’s had some really awful mental health issues.
Joshua improved but Ruiz came in worse. Uysk won't do that. But he will have to face a different version of AJ I'm sure, so I am still wary about the rematch. But on paper and on the eye test. Uysk is too smart, too much output, too much movement, adjusts too well, got the better gas tank.
Look it's a different debate. I'm not saying you shouldn't criticize someone for saying something wrong/stupid but equally immediately vilifying everyone for one-off statements (not saying that's the case here) is a dangerous game and really just serves to polarise people against just causes. If someone grows up in a racist household then they don't get the benefit of a good education so it's only natural that they should be allowed more chances when growing up. Anyway, it's not really the right thread for it and to be honest, Fury probably hasn't learnt much due to his almost fanatic religious views.
Not sure that is a fair comment in the heavyweight decision since Klitschko vs Fury ignited it in 2015. The last six years have seen a lot of the objectively best heavies fight each other. We were going to get Joshua v Fury until Fury was, quite rightly, legally obliged to give a promised rematch to Wilder. Even then we got Joshua v Usyk and Fury v Wilder III instead.
The only top guy in recent years who has shown less willingness to fight the best is Wilder, who was happy beating lesser opponents in isolation from the rest of the division, until his plan to beat a seemingly washed up Fury blew up in his face. He’s surely now at a point where he takes the big fights or disappears too.
And why are you sure of that? Because of all the work he's done to make amends, or how he's used his platform to educate his fans? Hmmm...
I think his body type actually helps with his durability and work rate
cant be sure obviously. Just seems to me despite what he’s said he’s a fundamentally good person. Misguided maybe.
He wouldn’t, because the extra muscle would come at the expense of cardio, which is a premium commodity in boxing.
You might think that. But it is counterintuitive because muscle tissue burns calories at a much higher rate than fat tissue for example.
And it is quite a bit heavier.
You need the weight to be able to 'lean on' the other boxer, but be as efficient cardiovascular wise.
Getting ripped wouldn't be extra muscle though would it? His muscle is already under his flab. Getting ripped isn't putting on muscle, it's ripping off fat. It wouldn't make him unstoppable though cause then he'd be about 5 stone lighter
If it was to his advantage, his camp would’ve done it long ago. He relies on his size for obvious reasons. Wilder also made a mistake of lifting weights too much going into this fight I thought (as mentioned by Lennox last night).Getting ripped wouldn't be extra muscle though would it? His muscle is already under his flab. Getting ripped isn't putting on muscle, it's ripping off fat. It wouldn't make him unstoppable though cause then he'd be about 5 stone lighter
I'm not a huge boxing guy but from the fights I've seen from these 4 gentlemen, my rank would be along the lines of:
Fury
Usyk
Wilder
AJ
Is that fair or am I an idiot? (Could be both!)
Fury
Usyk
Wilder
AJ
Is that fair or am I an idiot? (Could be both!)
He’s beat one shit boxer 3 times and Wlad in 6 years.
”One of the all time best”
Wilder should be fecking nowhere near that.
Fury
Usyk
AJ
Whyte
I’m not convinced I’d even stick Wilder next, the only two fighters of any worth he’s fought are Ortiz (meh) and he’s been schooled 3 times by Fury and knocked out twice by his pillow hands, such a poor boxer he is. Usyk, AJ and even Whyte have better CV’s.
Considering that outrageous chin on Ruiz, I’d put money on him wiping out Wilder.
Last edited:
Wel done he's 33.Ker-ching
Not so sure i'd back wilder to beat AJ 9 times out of 10
I actually think that Wilder is all wrong for gun-shy Joshua right now
Yeah, the sudden Wilder love is weird. He just got outboxed in his last 4 fights. You can almost count the rounds he won in 1 hand over that period as well.
Now other HWs with knockout power will push Wilder on his back foot and take advantage of the openings Wilder gave to Tyson.
Wilder was getting pushed back by the best heavyweight in the world who also happens to weigh 275lbs and has excellent footwork. It won’t be so easy for other heavyweights
What are you on about? I got a bet up?!?
I was talking about fury, not wilder. You said the extra muscle would hinder fury if he ripped fat. I sat what extra muscle? You don't gain muscle during a cut, you'll know that as much as me.
Like I said, I'm no big fan of boxing but he lost to the best HW in boxing right now, I doubt many can do what Fury does plus don't have that same size advantage.
Everyone here always says Wilder is useless and now everyone will follow Fury gamelan... I'm sure these professional boxers and their teams already know what us posters here know, yet get KO by Wilder.
There are, I'm sure, many facets to boxing but having KO power must be one of the best tools, which is why Wilder got this far (regardless of competition)?
In UFC, Ngannou got to a HW title shot, and beat many top talents along the way due to one punch KO power, then faced a massive obstacle in Stipe wrestling... He had to learn more about TDD, which he did to win the second fight against Stipe.
AJ from what I've seen hasn't got the best chin, and seems to not like getting hit. That could easily affect his game plan against a guy who can KO most people with one shot... So is it that far-fetched to think Wilder can beat AJ?
Wider isn't a shit boxer.He’s beat one shit boxer 3 times and Wlad in 6 years.
”One of the all time best”
Why would he do that though, when he has an obvious size advantage in his present form. As long as he has the cardio to match his size, he wouldn't be incentivized to change anything.