So basically the only two options in your scenario is Ole miraculously becoming a top manager when there have been no signs or we get an even crappier manager than him.I’ll ask the question again though. Who are we going to hire if we sack Ole tomorrow? How does it help us getting in a crappy interim manager? Look I’m as disappointed as other fans but we need to be reasonable. Our season will likely not end in the success I want or envisioned but if that’s the case Ole will be gone in the summer. The only way he goes before that is a complete crash and burn and we would have to make a hugely rash managerial appointment mid season. In order of best case scenarios:
- Ole stays, turns it round and wins a big trophy this season.
- Ole steadies the ship, we compete a little better but fall just short of our ambitions this season.
- Ole continues to lose, we crash and burn and hire some random manager mid season where we can’t use any forward planning.
it’s as simple as that.
Would take a losing streak like Villa suffered if it led to some action, yes I know what I am peopleI think he’ll stay unless the fans or players raise a ruckus, or we go on such a long losing streak that Joel Glazer ignores whatever the board is telling him and takes action. The reliable journalists all say we haven’t even been speaking to other managers, and I don’t think we’ve been the kind of club to keep mum like that.
Do you actually believe this?The board knows that most United fans at the stadium are sentimental, they are easy to please, they are difficult to anger and they are terrified of Gaz or SIR coming out and scolding them for not being good fans.
I am not terrified of being scolded by either of them and certainly too smart to fall for any of this PR spin bullshit eitherThe board knows that most United fans at the stadium are sentimental, they are easy to please, they are difficult to anger and they are terrified of Gaz or SIR coming out and scolding them for not being good fans. Two good results and all this Ole out talks would be quickly forgotten and they'll be singing Ole at the wheel again. So why bother paying millions to sack Ole when they can just ride the storm?
However there's already contingency plans in action. Not actual contingency plans of course but PR spins. In fact they haven't publicly backed Ole at the wheel and they had leaked that they don't like Ole at the wheel and its simply a matter of it being difficult to find a manager mid way through the season. If shit hits fan and these results do not change then they simply confirm those leaks. By that time it would already be too late to sack Ole.
I lost count of how many top reds had been terrified of being labelled as bad fans. It explains why Ole keeps leaving the pitch with fans clapping at him despite the crap results. I assure you that if Ole was managing Real then he would have seen the white scarfs months ago. We celebrate failure insteadDo you actually believe this?
Wumming is annoying, granted - but still better than utter idiocy, I'd say.
Probably not fair to say that they’re terrified of being labelled as bad fans. I think it’s a genuine principle that most of them hold to. I don’t agree with it as it’s an emotional rather than logical stance to take. The top reds are no better or worse than the fans who boo the manager or want the team to lose a few games for the sake of the medium and long term good of the club.I lost count of how many top reds had been terrified of being labelled as bad fans. It explains why Ole keeps leaving the pitch with fans clapping at him despite the crap results. I assure you that if Ole was managing Real then he would have seen the white scarfs months ago. We celebrate failure instead
I do understand their point though. Most supporters can't be bothered following other clubs which means United is everything for them football related. We're basically a 2 successful manager's club and most of the fans today are the product of a very successful but still weird situation were a manager came in and had complete power for more then 2 decades. In a very exaggerated way it would be like North Korea getting democracy now and expect their people to start thinking about democracy in the same way a British person who had enjoyed such a thing for decades did.Probably not fair to say that they’re terrified of being labelled as bad fans. I think it’s a genuine principle that most of them hold to. I don’t agree with it as it’s an emotional rather than logical stance to take. The top reds are no better or worse than the fans who boo the manager or want the team to lose a few games for the sake of the medium and long term good of the club.
We don’t just want to settle for someone better than Ole (that’s not hard at this point). We need someone that Is as good as Klopp, Tuchel, Pep. In other words if we hope to compete we will need someone world class and I don’t see any available right now that will help us. If our board was smart and proactive then yes we could get someone in on a short term deal and let them go in the summer but we know they aren’t so whoever we hire how will get a couple of seasons. I’d happy risk it all and get Ten Hag in the summer rather than appoint the wrong person again now.So basically the only two options in your scenario is Ole miraculously becoming a top manager when there have been no signs or we get an even crappier manager than him.
You seem to think it's a far off dream that we could actually get someone competent to improve us.
Yeah, I mean which available manager could possibly do better than what Ole could. I mean it's impossible to get in a better manager than him mid season. Makes sense.
Interim managers come in all the time on short term deals. Also, I would take anyone better than Ole right now. Ole right now is practically the worst possible option and we should go back in time to sack him earlier if possible. Since that's not an available option, the next best one is to sack him now and get anyone who can put us on a bettee course for the remainder of the season. Tired of wasting season on season just to get that golden goose who may or may not exist.We don’t just want to settle for someone better than Ole (that’s not hard at this point). We need someone that Is as good as Klopp, Tuchel, Pep. In other words if we hope to compete we will need someone world class and I don’t see any available right now that will help us. If our board was smart and proactive then yes we could get someone in on a short term deal and let them go in the summer but we know they aren’t so whoever we hire how will get a couple of seasons. I’d happy risk it all and get Ten Hag in the summer rather than appoint the wrong person again now.
How United fans who don't share the weird conviction that losing the next game will see OGS get the sack think: Well, we got smashed 5-0 at home to Liverpool, bailed out by Ronaldo against Atalanta, then played off the park by City, so why have some fans convinced themselves that a loss against Watford will definitely see a mystery world class manager come in. If not, do we then hope for losses against Villareal, Chelsea, Arsenal, Palace etc...in the belief that this time he'll definitely get sacked. If Ole does survive to the end of the season, are you going to sit cheering on United's opposition for the next 40-odd games?How some of you think fans wanting United to lose are: Feck off Ronaldo, Feck off Bruno, Feck Ole... Lose 10-0 you scum. That'll make me happy.
How United fans who think losing one game might be beneficial in long term actually think: If we lose to Watford, we'll be 6-8 points away from the Top 4 and 12 away from the top. If we get a competent manager in, we would have 26 games to rectify this damage, probably get on a run post GW13 and ascertain our Top 4 and probably still be in contention for Top 2. If we win against Watford (like we did at Spurs), we will definitely have a mediocre performance against both Villareal and Chelsea which wouldn't get Ole the sack but push us even further away from the bare minimum of our goals.
So if there are fans who are contemplating whether losing one game would be more beneficial in the longer run, try and figure out that the only reason we're in a position for this to be even a topic is that our board, decision makers and influencers (ex-players) are actively working against what is best for the club. Probably best to target them for the wrath rather than be more divided as a fanbase which is essentially what they want.
if Ole remains as manager then we will continue to lose a lot in the future. so by wanting him to stay on, you're basically saying you're happy with inept play, lack of game plans, inability to get the best out of players, inability to win against teams sitting back, and inability to compete with the best teams. yay?In about 70 years of watching United I've never wanted them to lose and my opinion is that supporters who do aren't worth a thimble full of warm beer.
every loss sees the pressure mount. he's under more pressure now because of those losses against Liverpool and City. inevitability that pressure will break if he keeps on losing, and that's the only way he's going to go. if we had a competent board who could make a decision, we wouldn't be forced into this position.is it the case though? The guy survived a 5-0 defeat against Liverpool and a 2-0 defeat against City both at home. Ole is keeping last year and this year big signing on the bench, our captain said that they lack belief, Pep and Klopp had admitted that they toyed with us and Liverpool/City fans are signing Ole at the wheel. I think he's here to stay at least till the end of the season (probably way more)
Clearly people support a club in their own way and it can be quite personal to them. So if Ole does end up staying until the end of the season, will you be willing us to lose and cheering every goal we let in for the next 30-40 games? That sounds way worse than just watching us bumble to another top four finish.if Ole remains as manager then we will continue to lose a lot in the future. so by wanting him to stay on, you're basically saying you're happy with inept play, lack of game plans, inability to get the best out of players, inability to win against teams sitting back, and inability to compete with the best teams. yay?
every loss sees the pressure mount. he's under more pressure now because of those losses against Liverpool and City. inevitability that pressure will break if he keeps on losing, and that's the only way he's going to go. if we had a competent board who could make a decision, we wouldn't be forced into this position.
We aren't Real Madrid, though. Very different fan culture. And no - they aren't clapping him off the pitch because they're afraid of being labeled bad fans by Gary Neville. Nor because they're blind idiots who can't see that this Ole business probably isn't going anywhere. They do it because it's part and parcel of their culture (and they don't give two fecks about the culture at Real Madrid or anywhere else).I lost count of how many top reds had been terrified of being labelled as bad fans. It explains why Ole keeps leaving the pitch with fans clapping at him despite the crap results. I assure you that if Ole was managing Real then he would have seen the white scarfs months ago. We celebrate failure instead
I am not criticizing you or anything. I wished we lost against Spurs because I felt that Ole wouldn't had survived it and he would leave with a shred of dignity left in him. Now I am not sure that it would have mattered. We made a draw against Atalanta look as if we clinched the same result against Pep's Barca at the Nou Camp then City went on and toyed with us. Meanwhile Ole had lost the fans, some former players had turned against him and leaks are showing that his captain had lost his belief in the cause as well. Meanwhile other players want out and Jesse/Pogba are refusing to sign contract extensions if Ole is still around. That's a huge hit in the club's pockets.every loss sees the pressure mount. he's under more pressure now because of those losses against Liverpool and City. inevitability that pressure will break if he keeps on losing, and that's the only way he's going to go. if we had a competent board who could make a decision, we wouldn't be forced into this position.
So you are basically arguing that our fan base is delusional and nonchalant about failure because it's built into who they are? So the rot is even deeper than I imagined. No wonder the glazers bought Manchester united, they probably researched that a large portion of the fan base is ambivalent to being good as long as they can show up to old Trafford a few times a month and clap whatever horror show is out there.We aren't Real Madrid, though. Very different fan culture. And no - they aren't clapping him off the pitch because they're afraid of being labeled bad fans by Gary Neville. Nor because they're blind idiots who can't see that this Ole business probably isn't going anywhere. They do it because it's part and parcel of their culture (and they don't give two fecks about the culture at Real Madrid or anywhere else).
Someone mentioned the relegation season back in the 70s in one of these threads: the fans cheered the team on right down into the old second division. Were they so immensely deluded that they thought the season went well enough? Of course not. Had they forgotten all about winning the EC a few years prior, thus having lowered their standards something shocking? Again - of course not.
Different cultures - simple as that. What we're seeing more and more these days is that one segment of United's fan base (many of whom have never set foot inside Old Trafford) are positively mocking another segment because they - the latter segment - behave as United fans have done traditionally: they don't wave white hankies, they focus on supporting the team (not the Glazers or Ole, the individual).
Finally, these comparisons with Real Madrid, Barca, Bayern et al are largely pointless. The fan culture being different is one thing - but more importantly, the ownership structure is completely different too. "Glazers out" actually means "the Glazers should sell their cash cow to appease us" - which is a very different proposition to getting someone like Pérez to feck off (the latter is something match goers actually can achieve - by waving hankies and so forth - within the realm of the more or less realistic).
100%, i was just making a point to the guy who said supporters like me 'aren't worth a thimble full of warm beer'.Clearly people support a club in their own way and it can be quite personal to them. So if Ole does end up staying until the end of the season, will you be willing us to lose and cheering every goal we let in for the next 30-40 games? That sounds way worse than just watching us bumble to another top four finish.
Sooner the better Pogba's gone IMO, irrespective of Ole.Meanwhile other players want out and Jesse/Pogba are refusing to sign contract extensions if Ole is still around. That's a huge hit in the club's pockets.
you realise United has been losing a lot under Ole? supporters who want him gone want this to stop.Redcafe is pathetic. The arsehole of the fanbase.
Imagine wanting United to lose.
I dunno I'm torn between thinking he can't surely survive say 2-4 more defeats but also that he could stay til the end of the season cos there are few replacement options available now.100%, i was just making a point to the guy who said supporters like me 'aren't worth a thimble full of warm beer'.
realistically, Ole won't survive 30-40 more defeats, but if that's what it took then so be it. however what we're really talking about is another 2-4 losses in a row realistically. i'm willing to accept that to see him gone. the worst thing for the medium and longer term health of the club is for us to bumble along into another top 4 finish and he gets yet another summer and year of inept management.
Eh. It's lose now so we lose less later kind of thing more than actually wanting United to lose.Redcafe is pathetic. The arsehole of the fanbase.
Imagine wanting United to lose.
Then it’s the numbness of the LVG 2015/16 season post December or Mourinho 2018/19 assuming minus the high points of Ole’s initial reign leading up to Paris. You can’t blame fellow fans for being right. It is what the board has decided what out season to be.How United fans who don't share the weird conviction that losing the next game will see OGS get the sack think: Well, we got smashed 5-0 at home to Liverpool, bailed out by Ronaldo against Atalanta, then played off the park by City, so why have some fans convinced themselves that a loss against Watford will definitely see a mystery world class manager come in. If not, do we then hope for losses against Villareal, Chelsea, Arsenal, Palace etc...in the belief that this time he'll definitely get sacked. If Ole does survive to the end of the season, are you going to sit cheering on United's opposition for the next 40-odd games?
Imagine wanting the club to take steps to improve.Imagine wanting United to lose.
I don't understand the bolded part? People are free to want United to win or lose, we all ultimately want a change, just presumably see different routes to it. I just really don't like it when we have posters (this is not aimed at you) aggressively abusing others for not wanting to lose every game, even against City and Liverpool.Then it’s the numbness of the LVG 2015/16 season post December or Mourinho 2018/19 assuming minus the high points of Ole’s initial reign leading up to Paris. You can’t blame fellow fans for being right. It is what the board has decided what out season to be.
if Ole remains as manager then we will continue to lose a lot in the future. so by wanting him to stay on, you're basically saying you're happy with inept play, lack of game plans, inability to get the best out of players, inability to win against teams sitting back, and inability to compete with the best teams. yay?
Where on earth did I say all this garbage. It's incredible that anybody could assume this simply because I said that I never want to see my team lose. I also think Ole should go, he's definitely reached the limit of his ability, but over the years I've seen awful United sides and great ones and awful managers and great ones but have never wanted them to lose. Neither in all my years have I seen supporters of other sides wanting their team to lose in order to have a change of manager.
Do us all a favor and leave.Redcafe is pathetic. The arsehole of the fanbase.
Imagine wanting United to lose.
I mean "being right" in hindsight. Naturally, genuinely don't think a fan can aggressively want us to lose as well. It is choosing between a rock and a hard place. I haven't actually come across anyone abusing another poster for wanting a victory for United. That would be lunacy.I don't understand the bolded part? People are free to want United to win or lose, we all ultimately want a change, just presumably see different routes to it. I just really don't like it when we have posters (this is not aimed at you) aggressively abusing others for not wanting to lose every game, even against City and Liverpool.
Yup. I've certainly seen several of the latter, with snide stuff like 'imagine wanting us to beat Watford so Ole gets another two months', that kind of post. 'Ole inners are hive mind idiots' another, as some posters conflate anyone not comfortable with cheering on United defeats as ardent Ole inners, despite the fact they also want a new manager in.I mean "being right" in hindsight. Naturally, genuinely don't think a fan can aggressively want us to lose as well. It is choosing between a rock and a hard place. I haven't actually come across anyone abusing another poster for wanting a victory for United. That would be lunacy.
That's misleading, since the post you are referring to by @Valar Morghulis used the term Top Red and not Ole-inners. And Top Reds are very much a factual category of fans who call others "arseholes" (just scroll up on this page).Yup. I've certainly seen several of the latter, with snide stuff like 'imagine wanting us to beat Watford so Ole gets another two months', that kind of post. 'Ole inners are hive mind idiots' another, as some posters conflate anyone not comfortable with cheering on United defeats as ardent Ole inners, despite the fact they also want a new manager in.
It just all adds to the toxicity, but I can't see it changing until the board does something definitive- there are obviously a lot of pissed off fans out there reacting in different ways that sometimes clash with each other.
