United players upset at criticism, didums

[Rusholme Ruffian]

It's a pointless argument, but I've seen dozens of posts moaning that papers take it easy on him. I'm not sure that's the case, the papers more look at United with bemusement, periodically tripping into amusement, at how badly the club is run.
You could equally argue Lampard got 'rather less' criticism than others would've - I can't remember him being shredded much. If it is the case, maybe it is in part cos they're not cnuts like say Jose or the fact no-one expected them to be that great. Ole failing to win a trophy is hardly the headline news Pep or Klopp not winning anything would be.

Whatever, even if the tactics are shite, the players have to take some responsibility for the woeful individual mistakes we've seen recently.

Oh the irony of Redcafe staff describing Jose as a 'cnut' whilst autocorrecting the term PE teach-er for Ole, and coming out with a load of sanctimonious bullshit about 'no abuse of anybody being tolerated' in the sack thread (not you personally, but several modmins) - should I report your post?? You guys have lost your collective minds over Ole, and this place is becoming more like RAWK every day.


EDIT: apologies, didn't mean for that to come across quite so harsh! I do think there are some major double standards going on though, and anybody pointing that out yesterday (regardless of how calm, measured and justified their point was) had their posts removed yesterday...it's getting like Pravda...

 

[Pronewbie]

Like I said 2 weeks ago… As long as Ole isn’t sacked, things are just going to become more toxic. Even Goldbridge has been trumpeting this in recent days.

 

[Ferguson’s Hairdryer]

"The player who did the blocking on Twitter used to search his name on the site to read negative posts to channel them into positive performances. He never seemed likely to make it at United but he has."

Gotta be McTominay or Fred? Can't think of any other players who fits that bill.

While players moaning about criticism about their performances is pathetic, this journalist is indirectly complaining about a player blocking him on Twitter which is just as pathetic if not more.

 

[Jippy]

Oh the irony of Redcafe staff describing Jose as a 'cnut' whilst autocorrecting the term PE teach-er for Ole, and coming out with a load of sanctimonious bullshit about 'no abuse of anybody being tolerated' in the sack thread (not you personally, but several modmins) - should I report your post?? You guys have lost your collective minds over Ole, and this place is becoming more like RAWK every day.


EDIT: apologies, didn't mean for that to come across quite so harsh! I do think there are some major double standards going on though, and anybody pointing that out yesterday (regardless of how calm, measured and justified their point was) had their posts removed yesterday...it's getting like Pravda...

Jose and Ole are obviously going to be treated differently, given Jose was at best a divisive character and Ole was a legendary player. We've tried to rein in some of the most virulent abuse aimed at Ole, given his past with the club, which I don't think is sanctimonious. There's never been any issue with criticising Ole, the club or the team. It may not always have been entirely consistent, but obviously the mods are not a hivemind and opinions change over time.

Not entirely sure what happened yesterday- I'm in a different time zone so miss the excitement of what's happening in the UK in the evening.

 

[arnie_ni]

Are they annoyed because the manager doesn't get criticised and all the blame is placed on them, or are they just annoyed in general.

There's a difference in my eyes.

If you can't handle the heat get out. If your pointing out the hypocrisy in the general media I get it.

Nev et all drop hints that ole isn't up to scratch but they actually call players out by name and some like maguire get absolute Annihilated in the media.

 

[devilish]

Absolutely nothing is wrong with that- we are massively underperforming and questions should be asked. I'm just saying loads of people here are blinded by their bias and have convinced themselves that the papers all fawn over Ole, taking it easy on him. I'm just saying there has been stacks written absolutely slating his management for some time across multiple national media outlets. Plus he's never been taken seriously as a long-term manager here.

I think Ole is protected alot by United's press and the many pundits who played with him as a player. He also rely heavily on English players. For example he brought Sancho back home + he gave the likes of Maguire and AWB their shot at top level football. That scores him a lot of brownie points with the local media

 

[Champ]

United fans only care about performances with Manchester United. We would gladly swap a CL win for 50 England goals against mighty San Marino

I don't think Maguire would be able to do that on his own to be honest!?

He got slated by Keane, scored a couple of good goals and sets a domestic international record, in the only two games he's had since being slated by Keane.
Not much more he could have done in the interim really.

 

[Green_Red]

Isn't the purpose of abuse to hurt the players' confidence, upset their families, and make them play worse on pitch?

By the sounds of it, United's fanbase is achieving exactly what they set out to do.

So it's the fans fault that United are shit?

 

[Dante]

So it's the fans fault that United are shit?

Confidence is a real thing in football, hence why players go in and out of form.

Support is also a real thing in football, hence why a team's home record is better than their away record.

It's not entirely the fault of supporters who don't support. But they've definitely contributed to the state the players (and therefore the club) is in.

 

[Damon1559]

While I agree players performances should sometimes be criticised (lack of effort etc) but no player, manager, staff or board members should ever be abused! We are all humans at the end of the day and the fact that they make a lot of money doesn't mean they are open for abuse or should expect it etc.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

It's not entirely the fault of supporters who don't support. But they've definitely contributed to the state the players (and therefore the club) is in.

In what sense? Up until the Liverpool and City games there has been nothing but full support?? No clubs fans could have been better?

Or do you mean comments on Insta etc?The kind of comments that every player receives, regardless of club?

To blame our fans for the state of the club is one of the weirdest things I've read on here for a while...

 

[Dante]

In what sense? Up until the Liverpool and City games there has been nothing but full support?? No clubs fans could have been better?

Or do you mean comments on Insta etc?The kind of comments that every player receives, regardless of club?

To blame our fans for the state of the club is one of the weirdest things I've read on here for a while...

It's totally different when it's a supposed supporter of the club you play for.

I didn't blame the fans. Learn to read.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

It's totally different when it's a supposed supporter of the club you play for.

You think fans of other clubs don't criticise their own players??

I didn't blame the fans. Learn to read.

Well you wrote:

It's not entirely the fault of supporters who don't support. But they've definitely contributed to the state the players (and therefore the club) is in.

You are saying that the fans have definitely contributed to the state that the club is in. Unless my reading is poorer than I thought?

 

[Flytan]

Confidence is a real thing in football, hence why players go in and out of form.

Support is also a real thing in football, hence why a team's home record is better than their away record.

It's not entirely the fault of supporters who don't support. But they've definitely contributed to the state the players (and therefore the club) is in.

This is the worst take I have ever heard in my life. Blaming fans who are unhappy with a team playing bad for the team playing bad. You realize they had to turn to shit before fans got mad right?

 

[Dante]

You think fans of other clubs don't criticise their own players??



Well you wrote:



You are saying that the fans have definitely contributed to the state that the club is in. Unless my reading is poorer than I thought?

It is a bit shit, yeah.

Away fans boo in every stadium. And yet home teams perform better in their own stadium.

The issue isn't the fact that criticism exists. It's when the criticism crosses into abuse, and then the volume overwhlems every other engagement.

 

[Dante]

This is the worst take I have ever heard in my life. Blaming fans who are unhappy with a team playing bad for the team playing bad. You realize they had to turn to shit before fans got mad right?

If you think cheering and booing has no effect of players, why do people in the stadium do it?

A cheer when the players are at the lowest can help lift them up. An insult at the same point can send them deeper into the doldrums.

 

[Flytan]

It is a bit shit, yeah.

Away fans boo in every stadium. And yet home teams perform better in their own stadium.

The issue isn't the fact that criticism exists. It's when the criticism crosses into abuse, and then the volume overwhlems every other engagement.

You think that home games are only more beneficial because of the fans screaming? No. There are plenty of factors that go into it (example not traveling)

My god if our players are actually playing worse because of the internet and twitter then they're even more pathetic than I've been giving them credit for..

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

It is a bit shit, yeah.

Away fans boo in every stadium. And yet home teams perform better in their own stadium.

The issue isn't the fact that criticism exists. It's when the criticism crosses into abuse, and then the volume overwhlems every other engagement.

yeah, I get that, but it's barely happened with United? No set of fans would have gone easier on the players and manager than ours have. Did you hear the Spurs fans the other week?!

Give any top class club an utterly mediocre manager for 3 years and see how their fans behave...

 

[Flytan]

If you think cheering and booing has no effect of players, why do people in the stadium do it?

A cheer when the players are at the lowest can help lift them up. An insult at the same point can send them deeper into the doldrums.

Where did I say that? Our fans in the stadium have cheered plenty of times and still lost. Stop trying to deflect blame from the coaching staff to fans. it's pathetic.

 

[Dante]

Where did I say that? Our fans in the stadium have cheered plenty of times and still lost. Stop trying to deflect blame from the coaching staff to fans. it's pathetic.

The world doesn't exist in binary where it's one thing or the other. Or even where they're of equal influence.

Every team wins and loses. But they win more games when they feel they have the support of the fans.

 

[Flytan]

The world doesn't exist in binary where it's one thing or the other. Or even where they're of equal influence.

Every team wins and loses. But they win more games when they feel they have the support of the fans.

Well maybe they'd have the support of the fanbase if they were actually coached well enough to win games despite a few boos on internet forums they probably shouldn't ever look at even if they were performing well.

Guess that's too much to ask for though.

It's all my fault United isn't in 1st, sorry.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

The world doesn't exist in binary where it's one thing or the other. Or even where they're of equal influence.

Every team wins and loses. But they win more games when they feel they have the support of the fans.

'Kinell, our fans were well up for the Liverpool and City games - both games were over as contests within minutes, what more would you have had them do?

I feel like the point you are making is not based upon the reality of the situation.

 

[stefan92]

Where did I say that? Our fans in the stadium have cheered plenty of times and still lost. Stop trying to deflect blame from the coaching staff to fans. it's pathetic.

United fans cheer no matter what happens on the pitch. No fanbase of any top club would allow their teams to be that pathetic without a backlash. The standards have been lowered, and the fans are part of the reason why it happened.

Recent example: Bayern's fans whistled and booed at Leroy Sane early in this season. He did the right thing, raised his game and now they are happily cheering at him for a tackle.

Similar things happen at every club, bad performances get reactions from the fans, once you improve, everyone is cheering happily.

And to make that clear, I do think that it is good to cheer up the team during the game. But in the end, they have to make clear the standards they have and demand that from the club they support with their heart and money.

United's fans made clear that they will happily accept mediocrity. Now you got mediocre players who can't deal with the pressure to up their game.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

United fans cheer no matter what happens on the pitch. No fanbase of any top club would allow their teams to be that pathetic without a backlash. The standards have been lowered, and the fans are part of the reason why it happened.

Recent example: Bayern's fans whistled and booed at Leroy Sane early in this season. He did the right thing, raised his game and now they are happily cheering at him for a tackle.

Similar things happen at every club, bad performances get reactions from the fans, once you improve, everyone is cheering happily.

And to make that clear, I do think that it is good to cheer up the team during the game. But in the end, they have to make clear the standards they have and demand that from the club they support with their heart and money.

United's fans made clear that they will happily accept mediocrity. Now you got mediocre players who can't deal with the pressure to up their game.

I agree wholeheartedly!

 

[Flytan]

United fans cheer no matter what happens on the pitch. No fanbase of any top club would allow their teams to be that pathetic without a backlash. The standards have been lowered, and the fans are part of the reason why it happened.

Recent example: Bayern's fans whistled and booed at Leroy Sane early in this season. He did the right thing, raised his game and now they are happily cheering at him for a tackle.

Similar things happen at every club, bad performances get reactions from the fans, once you improve, everyone is cheering happily.

And to make that clear, I do think that it is good to cheer up the team during the game. But in the end, they have to make clear the standards they have and demand that from the club they support with their heart and money.

United's fans made clear that they will happily accept mediocrity. Now you got mediocre players who can't deal with the pressure to up their game.

Yup, if anything our fans are too positive
Can't believe there are people on this forum who think it's our lack of support that is the problem.

 

[Dante]

Yup, if anything our fans are too positive
Can't believe there are people on this forum who think it's our lack of support that is the problem.

Stop trying to deflect blame from the coaching staff to fans. it's pathetic.

 

[SirAF]

United fans cheer no matter what happens on the pitch. No fanbase of any top club would allow their teams to be that pathetic without a backlash. The standards have been lowered, and the fans are part of the reason why it happened.

Recent example: Bayern's fans whistled and booed at Leroy Sane early in this season. He did the right thing, raised his game and now they are happily cheering at him for a tackle.

Similar things happen at every club, bad performances get reactions from the fans, once you improve, everyone is cheering happily.

And to make that clear, I do think that it is good to cheer up the team during the game. But in the end, they have to make clear the standards they have and demand that from the club they support with their heart and money.

United's fans made clear that they will happily accept mediocrity. Now you got mediocre players who can't deal with the pressure to up their game.

Bingo.

 

[Flytan]

Was referring to us forcing the boards hand by intentionally making the situation toxic.

I'm trying to give the fans responsibility. Weird you can't see the difference

 

[Rightnr]

Confidence is a real thing in football, hence why players go in and out of form.

Support is also a real thing in football, hence why a team's home record is better than their away record.

It's not entirely the fault of supporters who don't support. But they've definitely contributed to the state the players (and therefore the club) is in.

Absolutely ridiculous take but I'm not surprised.

Fans follow the form of the team, they don't dictate it. The amount of pathetic protection afforded some of these underperforming millionaires is ridiculous given how harsh normal people's lives.

And while I'm too young to remember (and I didn't even have a TV at the time), I've heard fans used to get on Giggs's case. Funny how that's never mentioned in these strawmen some on here build time and again.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

The LVG story is even better. They allegedly used to do collective video sessions where the coaching staff would individually analyze player's performances and evaluate them publicily, they players allegedly didn't like being shown out publicly and for that reason LVG decided to send them private messages instead and could check if the players opened them.

Anyway, I can understand why players would be upset, it's normal. I hope that they understand that they are in a line of work where performance is easily gauged, they will never escape criticism when things go wrong and will be adored and praised when things go right.

Imagine declining LvGs request for a read receipt.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Absolutely ridiculous take but I'm not surprised.

Fans follow the form of the team, they don't dictate it. The amount of pathetic protection afforded some of these underperforming millionaires is ridiculous given how harsh normal people's lives.

And while I'm too young to remember (and I didn't even have a TV at the time), I've heard fans used to get on Giggs's case. Funny how that's never mentioned in these strawmen some on here build time and again.

Yes there was a period where Giggs was booed regularly. So much so that you thought he might actually go to Inter.

It was somewhat unfair though as I think he was struggling with hamstring injuries at the time. But he didn't seem to let it get him down, worked hard and eventually gave it back on the pitch.

 

[Rightnr]

Yes there was a period where Giggs was booed regularly. So much so that you thought he might actually go to Inter.

It was somewhat unfair though as I think he was struggling with hamstring injuries at the time. But he didn't seem to let it get him down, worked hard and eventually gave it back on the pitch.

Thanks. Just goes to show that some people on here are trying to rewrite reality.

Ronaldo himself has said he expects criticism. It seems it's only our players who are too precious for the truth. Kind of aligns with their inability to come through in the clutch, manager notwithstanding.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Thanks. Just goes to show that some people on here are trying to rewrite reality.

Ronaldo himself has said he expects criticism. It seems it's only our players who are too precious for the truth. Kind of aligns with their inability to come through in the clutch, manager notwithstanding.

Modern players (and people) can be pretty soft. Many don't take criticism well. That said, the things that are directed at them online are generally way over the top.

 

[Devil’s Trident]

If you think cheering and booing has no effect of players, why do people in the stadium do it?

A cheer when the players are at the lowest can help lift them up. An insult at the same point can send them deeper into the doldrums.

I wonder how Real Madrid managed to win all those champions leagues and all those trophies over the years ?

 

[Blood Mage]

Ole and his coaches are definitely the main issue right now but feck me, Fergie would ship half of these players out for being so mentally weak.

 

[Ronaldo's ego]

Aww poor baby waby need a nappy change. This is MANCHESTER UNITED…fix up or leave. Not so long ago our fringe players had more bollocks than the majority of this first team.

 

[clarkydaz]

Remember the abuse Fellaini used to get, and to be fair he never shyed away on the pitch

 

[Jippy]

I think Ole is protected alot by United's press and the many pundits who played with him as a player. He also rely heavily on English players. For example he brought Sancho back home + he gave the likes of Maguire and AWB their shot at top level football. That scores him a lot of brownie points with the local media

Obviously ex-players have been supportive, I wasn't debating that, just wouldn't class them media per se. He paid top dollar for those English players and while it probably has scored him brownie points along the way, Maguire has clearly gone backwards this season, even Shaw too, and not sure the Sancho situation is winning him many friends.

 

[Bondi77]

Hate to break it to these players but their performances are indeed as shit as the manager's, which is why as a collective we have won feck all in years.

You can blame Ole's tactics for all you like but if you're a truly outstanding player, you rise above and you still do the business and get results.

These bunch of wetwipes only 'look forward' to hiding behind manager sackings to excuse them for being shite.

Great post.

 

[devilish]

Obviously ex-players have been supportive, I wasn't debating that, just wouldn't class them media per se. He paid top dollar for those English players and while it probably has scored him brownie points along the way, Maguire has clearly gone backwards this season, even Shaw too, and not sure the Sancho situation is winning him many friends.

The local media in general love managers who give a quick route at big clubs to local talent. Then there's of course the power behind Manchester United FC. They whom to invite to pressers or whom to leak the information to. United generate huge interest so its within the media in general not to burn bridges with that especially with a manager whose seen as part of Legacy FC.