Roy and Vince will be eaten in test matches. Not sure about Livingston
English cricket thread
- Thread starter Samid
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
As if the current lot haven’t been? You’ve got to select your best players. Vince is equally good as Malan, Livingston probably better. These are very talented batsman, just feckin play them and let develop in stead and of putting your faith in far lesser equipped batsman because you feel they have a better mentality than for test cricket or what ever reason.
Then to play a specialist spinner in the first test but not for this test in 30c + conditions is a feckin crime.
4 years of planning.. all it has led to is desperation by the England team management
Stupid from Smith. Get Starc off if he's injured or just declare.
Now Starc holes out - for what?
Now Starc holes out - for what?
He’s a batting all rounder who had an average of 14 runs this year in red ball cricket. He shouldn’t even be the Lancashire player being considered as either a batter (Bohannon) or a bowler (Parkinson, who just should be playing in general now they’ve stupidly given up on Leach since he’s miles ahead of Bess)
The point I’m making is that you can’t just look at averages in red ball cricket because of the amount that of white ball cricket and the far too pace bowler friendly wickets we produce in England. Livingston is clearly far more talented than most batsman England have selected. We selected Selby ffs! Also, Livingston would be all rounder, not specialist spinner. An alternative to Woakes for example. Agree with Parkinson mind.
Even Mark Selby is more talented at cricket than Sibley :-))
I thought I’d gone delirious at about 5am after I’d clearly fallen back asleep, only to wake up to see someone that looked like Ollie Robinson bowling spin with sunglasses on.
One of those catches Buttler took was sensational.
I would say Livingstone has become more of a white-ball player. When he first started at Lancs he averaged high forties for his first two or three seasons, then he had a dip in form and an injury, and also lost the captaincy. Since he's come back, he's become more of a destructive one day player. In a way, it's a waste of his talent but it is good to see him enjoying his cricket.
I don't think he will ever play for England in the longer format. After his centuries for the Lions, they probably missed a chance to develop him.
I don't think he will ever play for England in the longer format. After his centuries for the Lions, they probably missed a chance to develop him.
but Livingstone’s first class record is consistently getting worse, bringing in a player like that just because he can smash a white ball into the other Headingley just isn’t a good call. Just as selecting Jason Roy as an opener in 2019 wasn’t a good call, it was an unmitigated disaster.
I don’t know what the answer is but I’m very very confident that it isn’t Livi. I’d love it if it was but I’ve seen enough of him for Lancashire to know I wouldn’t even have him on a long list if I was choosing for the test side
4 years of planning
I wonder whether Australia were obliged to follow on, in the hope that there'd be some cricket on the 5th day.
It wouldn't be a good look for Test cricket if it all gets wrapped up by lunch on day 4.
Mind you, it's not a great look for Test cricket if England defend for a session and a half and then get skittled out in a couple of hours after that, which is likely to be what happens here.
It wouldn't be a good look for Test cricket if it all gets wrapped up by lunch on day 4.
Mind you, it's not a great look for Test cricket if England defend for a session and a half and then get skittled out in a couple of hours after that, which is likely to be what happens here.
Malan is strong square of the wicket but he cuts too close to his body at times.
Is England the only nation that seems to constantly have this issue with specialist ODI or specialist test players? Theres far too many of them and I remember it being the case for donkeys now.
Other countries just seem to have, for the most part good players who can and do play both formats.
Other countries just seem to have, for the most part good players who can and do play both formats.
I think England is a country where the match conditions for first class, and limited overs domestic games are so extremely different.
Could definitely argue the West Indies, while they have players who play both it’s to drastically different standards
Neser has been underwhelming.
I'm amazed Cam Green isn't bowling. Looks a very useful bowler and awkward with his height.
I'm amazed Cam Green isn't bowling. Looks a very useful bowler and awkward with his height.
I was thinking this at the start of the series - do these players really play that much less red ball cricket than other top nations?
I can only guess that other nations prioritize red ball more knowing their players will have more than enough exposure to the white ball game away from the international scene without them having to focus on it to the extent the ECB has done.
The free to air broadcaster revealed that it's 3999 days since England won a test here. Matt Hayden's response: ''Long may it continue''.
It’s turning so much and two left handers.. wickets feel inevitable
Smith at slip puts an easy one down off Lyon but more chances should come along.
Not much happening for the seamers.
Not much happening for the seamers.
*checks score*
3(albeit it usually 2) down for a low amount and Root in requiring to do a bail out job if there's any chance of anything..... same old same old.
He shouldn't be captain on top of that pressure every single innings, forget once a test.
3(albeit it usually 2) down for a low amount and Root in requiring to do a bail out job if there's any chance of anything..... same old same old.
He shouldn't be captain on top of that pressure every single innings, forget once a test.
Vince played a fair few tests and didn't do well. Similiar record to Malan, who got the call back up because the youngsters were failing and he was performing well in all formats.
Roy was dreadful in the few tests he played, looked like he couldn't play the red ball at all. It might be slightly better to have him at 6 than opening, but we're stocked with better options for that role. It's best to let him focus on white ball cricket where he excels.
Livingstone is interesting. The youngest of the lot, and his bowling means there's a potential for him to be included as an all rounder, either as the 2nd spinner on a turning pitch, or as the sole spinner on a green top, or in the sub continent potentially even as the 3rd spinning option. Again it's complicated by us having plenty of decent options to bat 6-7, Root and Stokes nailed on 4 and 5.
The biggest problem England have is the top 3. None of these suggestions resolve that problem. Vince had been encouraged to bat higher in County, I think he was batting at 3 and maybe opening at some point, but it didn't last long and he was back at 4 or 5 last I checked. I think Malan is probably the best option for now, he's had 3 half centuries since his recall averaging 40+, and more importantly he seems comfortable batting at 3. Hes like 35 though so it's a short term option. We essentially need 3 new players for the top 3, Bohannon is an option potentially, but there's not many so we need at least a couple of Burns, Hameed, Sibley and Crawley to find form. That will give a platform to whoever is at 6-7, Bairstow, Buttler, Pope, Lawrence, Livingstone, Roy, Vince, Foakes etc.
Bracey is another interesting one, very young, batting at 3 in County and getting big scores whilst keeping. However batting 3 and keeping in tests is a monumental ask, so do we try and play him at 3 as a pure batsmen, or have him lower in the order keeping? For a prime example, check Sangakarra's batting average with and without keeping. It's like 40 keeping and 70 not keeping. He was too good a batsmen so it made sense to move him to 3 and not keep.
If we had a functional top 3, it wouldn't so much matter whose batting 6-8. I'd rather we pick our four best bowlers. Woakes is a great option in England but has failed time and again overseas. Would much prefer us to pick 4 of Mahmood, Stone, Archer, Wood, Robinson, Parkinson, Broad and Anderson so we can actually bowl sides out. Any attempt to bolster the batting line up with a Curran, Bess or Woakes (outside of England) its great news for the opposition. If their batting is good enough they can play at 6 or 7, great, if not don't bother with them.
We also need to start picking players suited to the conditions. Ballance and Jennings for example did well overseas, but couldn't handle the red ball in England. They could have been used to good effect on past tours (its too late for them now but we should look at that example). I won't pretend to be a good enough analyst of technique to say which of our batsmen would most likely prosper in which climate, but I'd like to think we would employ people who would.
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Poor Joe Root 
Mahmood just taken 4-22 in a Big Bash game.
FFS, no hope at all now!
Might have looked a bit weak but Root should have retired hurt after that. With just a couple of overs left Woakes could have come in to protect him and Stokes to make sure they were both still there tomorrow.
Yeah shame he couldn't hold the one which mattered in the first innings
Yep exactly. No idea why he didn’t.
We Silverwood gone that's for certain
Did I just have a bad dream or was Ollie Robinson really bowling offies?
Such a strange decision for Root to stay out there. Add that to the growing pile this series. Such a mess.
Can understand why he might not be thinking of it at that moment but either Stokes or the physio could have said something.
Probably wouldn't have made much difference to be fair.
Which bit of my post are you referring to sorry?
Yes and his offies were better than what Leach served up at the Gabba.
Tbf Root's figures are distorted by those shocking pitches in India but yeah, Broad has been trading on past glories for a while now, as has Anderson (who seems to have two or three anonymous games for every good one these days).
Might be a good time to move on from both of them after this series and rebuild the attack around Robinson, Mahmood, Archer (if he comes back 100%) etc
Sadly we can't bring him in unless there's an injury