Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

VorZakone

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So if Russia retreats, are Ukraine going on offensive to take back Donbass, Lugansk and Crimea? That's a pretext for some desperate measures.
I don't think that would be wise. It would hurt their PR and that population doesn't want to be ruled by Ukraine I think...
 

do.ob

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I am not hugely educated on the subject so forgive what I feel is a very open ended question.

If a Nato country managed to have Putin killed, what do people think the fallout would be?
What do you think will happen if someone assassinates a leader of a country, especially if they are already committed to a war? I doubt it would exactly de-escalate things. Putin would be a martyr and a lot of people would probably get behind his war on principle.
 

Revan

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His much loved people of Luhansk and Donetsk will be suffering from cancer for the rest of their lives. Not that he cares.
Not really.

The problem with tactical nukes is that they open the pandora box and then it can easily escalate to full nuclear war. However, they could be small enough to have limited destruction.

Or in case of Russia, they would probably misfire and hit their own army.
 

Sarni

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How likely is that Putin will be overturned from within now? The country in disarray and economic crisis, oligarchs who are used to spending time either on their expensive yachts or watching their sports clubs all around the world now stuck unable to do anything, the intervention evidently not going as planned. Is his entire inner circle willing to go such lengths for him or will they put some resistance?
 

hellhunter

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Not really.

The problem with tactical nukes is that they open the pandora box and then it can easily escalate to full nuclear war. However, they could be small enough to have limited destruction.

Or in case of Russia, they would probably misfire and hit their own army.
You start to make them sound like the Lukaku of the military world :lol:
 

TheLiverBird

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This is horrific for Ukrainians although hopeful because of their incredible fight back

Tragic for the Russian Army

And Embarrassing for Putin

If it’s true the Russians have lost close to 4500 troops, thats a 1out of 33 death rate in a force of 150,000

that doesn’t include the terrible injury list on top

Let down by their leader, a madman who sent them needlessly too die
 

Revan

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You start to make them sound like the Lukaku of the military world :lol:
So far they have done that to themselves. I mean, for crying out loud, tanks running out of fuel going to Kyiv. Which is 60m near the border from where they started.
 

Jim Beam

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How likely is that Putin will be overturned from within now? The country in disarray and economic crisis, oligarchs who are used to spending time either on their expensive yachts or watching their sports clubs all around the world now stuck unable to do anything, the intervention evidently not going as planned. Is his entire inner circle willing to go such lengths for him or will they put some resistance?
Zero. He could only go more crazy.
 

VorZakone

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Domino effect regarding the oligarchs now. Surely Putin can't survive this.

 

The Firestarter

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So if Russia retreats, are Ukraine going on offensive to take back Donbass, Lugansk and Crimea? That's a pretext for some desperate measures.
It seems incredible we are at the point of even discussing this, but they should limit to restoring the status quo before 24th. Anything else will really make putler attempt something desperate.
 

Droid_Repairs

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Really don't like seeing the BBC news front page being about Putin escalating the nuclear talk. Unsettling to see.

But, it's probably (and hopefully) dick waving because he's frustrated at his losses in Ukraine and throwing a tantrum.
 

Sarni

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Zero. He could only go more crazy.
I don’t get this. It is a country full of obscenely rich, powerful people. How can he have all the power in the world to basically destroy each and everyone one of them.
 

Water Melon

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Putler has just mentioned nukes, good luck lifting sanctions even if Russian troops retreat.
 

ShoePolish

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I don't think that would be wise. It would hurt their PR and that population doesn't want to be ruled by Ukraine I think...
Being from a country with sizeable russian minority, I can assure you, that population have the utmost freedom to pack their bags and make a short trip eastwards. Also, I am fairly certain, that there is minimal to no desire of actually being annexed into Russia, just like there wasn't a 97% vote in favour of Crimea joining Russia.
 

Jim Beam

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I don’t get this. It is a country full of obscenely rich, powerful people. How can he have all the power in the world to basically destroy each and everyone one of them.
That close circle around him is fully on his side (you don't go to war and then in 4 days things change). Think he would just shoot them.

I really hope you are right and they switch their thinking, but it's too early imo.
 

Raoul

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So if Russia retreats, are Ukraine going on offensive to take back Donbass, Lugansk and Crimea? That's a pretext for some desperate measures.
Whatever negotiation settlement both sides agree to would have to include at a minimum, Donbas and potentially Crimea as well. All of these are part of the same protracted war that began in 2014, and which has culminated this week. Putin has little leverage to not make significant concessions at this point, since not doing so, would jeopardize the continuation of Swift and other devastating sanctions, which if left intact, would sink him from within.

So short of him being prepared to unleash nukes, he has to negotiate and offer concessions.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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I don’t have a solution because it is about sheer capacity. You can’t bypass a bottleneck without smashing a bottle. The border forces will be working to maximum capacity and will have to prioritise who to process.

It is not about hiding behind rules either. I don’t see any reason for Ukraine or the EU to change the rules and would even support them continuing to prioritise their citizens. Citizens of third countries, including British citizens, one of which could have been myself in a few weeks’ time, will have to wait unfortunately.

The only obvious thing common-sense thing I would suggest is prioritising family groups with young children, but I imagine that is probably somewhat happening already.

You mention Ukraine failing foreign citizens who have contributed to the country right now, but you forget one important thing: all Ukrainian men between 18 and 60 cannot leave the country indefinitely. All foreign men stuck in Ukraine at least have the option of queuing to leave.
I like that bottle neck analogy.

It is hiding behind the rules as it ignores the fact people aren’t simply being prioritised. If I’m a non-EU National/Ukrainian then I can not leave if as you say they can only do 4-6 people an hour then I’m in purgatory. Priority in this situation means you’re continually sending certain people to the back of an ever increasing queue.

I saw a video of a lady holding a two-month old in freezing conditions not being allowed to leave so common sense certainly isn’t even being considered at the point.

Your point on 18-60 year old Ukrainians would hold far more weight if the 18-60 year old non-EU nationals you say have the option to queue were actually leaving, instead they’re posting videos of the 18-60 year old Ukrainians threatening them with guns if they don’t leave said queues.

The whole situation is terrible, I’m not saying open the floodgates yet as you mentioned may eventually potentially happen but you continue to ignore the fact these people aren’t in a usual immigration queue. They’re not trying to get the 10.15 train to Poland.
 

Rektsanwalt

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What do you think will happen if someone assassinates a leader of a country, especially if they are already committed to a war? I doubt it would exactly de-escalate things. Putin would be a martyr and a lot of people would probably get behind his war on principle.
It's rolling the dice, at least. Might very much be possible that people in command already resent him. It's an unpredictable scenario.
 

Abizzz

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I don’t get this. It is a country full of obscenely rich, powerful people. How can he have all the power in the world to basically destroy each and everyone one of them.
Dictators are essentially conartists. Everyone thinks everyone else is loyal to them so no one dares to do anything even if everyone would like to.
 

MTF

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I don’t get this. It is a country full of obscenely rich, powerful people. How can he have all the power in the world to basically destroy each and everyone one of them.
I'm not calling it one way or another in terms of what I think will happen, but a theory on why oligarchs could be powerless to stop him is that they're all beholden to him. They're rich via control of the economic resources, but they have no control over the security apparatus. Essentially they're all in their positions due to his blessing and protection. Like I said, one theory of how it works there.
 

VorZakone

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Being from a country with sizeable russian minority, I can assure you, that population have the utmost freedom to pack their bags and make a short trip eastwards. Also, I am fairly certain, that there is minimal to no desire of actually being annexed into Russia, just like there wasn't a 97% vote in favour of Crimea joining Russia.
The Ukrainians have the world's utmost respect, support and sympathy at the moment. For them to start attacking a pro-Russian region would be extremely unwise IMO.
 

Beans

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"In a historic announcement to parliament, German chancellor Olaf Scholz has said a fund of €100bn will be set up immediately in order to boost the strength of its armed forces, as well as announcing a sustained increase in defence spending over the coming years. In a historic announcement to parliament, German chancellor Olaf Scholz has said a fund of €100bn will be set up immediately in order to boost the strength of its armed forces, as well as announcing a sustained increase in defence spending over the coming years."

Guardian, if it hasn't been posted already. Last thing Putin wanted.
 

UncleBob

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Putin has gone and fecked up, dont think it should be underestimated the mess he’s in now.
 

Zlatattack

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As said, he has one card and he is overplaying it. At this point, I dont think he even has the home support to successfully authorize nuclear strikes. Its just looking more and more like desperation on Putin's part.
He's playing to the gallery, nobody is going to fire nuclear weapons anywhere.
:eek: please be true
The first casualty of war is the truth, so unfortunately nothing we read is likely to be true.

Smarter minds than me could correct me but I suspect if Putin's attempt at blitzkrieg fails, he's going to fall back to laying siege on the cities as he did with Grozny in 1999.
 

Red_toad

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Not really.

The problem with tactical nukes is that they open the pandora box and then it can easily escalate to full nuclear war. However, they could be small enough to have limited destruction.

Or in case of Russia, they would probably misfire and hit their own army.
Or simply drop out of the sky after running out of fuel...
 

VorZakone

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Putin has gone and fecked up, dont think it should be underestimated the mess he’s in now.
  • International isolation.
  • Extreme sanctions.
  • Heavy casualties.
  • Potential ruble crash tomorrow.

Yeah, he's fecked.
 

ShoePolish

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The Ukrainians have the world's utmost respect, support and sympathy at the moment. For them to start attacking a pro-Russian region would be extremely unwise IMO.
They are either giving those regions up or taking them back. I don't believe they will sign any peace treaty only to go back to having a frontline in their country.

Also, Putin cannot be allowed to survive this, he's implanted himself until 2036, he might not have the finances now to rebuild and restructure his army, but his aggressive policies will continue and who knows, in 10 years time, they might be back better equiped.
 

Giggsyking

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He chose his words carefully :D, what if he didnt choose his words carefully?
 

IWat

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Putin has gone and fecked up, dont think it should be underestimated the mess he’s in now.
The problem is he needs something he can sell at home. Ukraine and the West shouldn't accept any less than a complete Russian withdrawal including Donbass and Crimea etc. That's political suicide for Putin. So what does he do?
 

Sarni

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They are either giving those regions up or taking them back. I don't believe they will sign any peace treaty only to go back to having a frontline in their country.

Also, Putin cannot be allowed to survive this, he's implanted himself until 2036, he might not have the finances now to rebuild and restructure his army, but his aggressive policies will continue and who knows, in 10 years time, they might be back better equiped.
He will be dead in 10 years.