A reset for the reset.
English cricket thread
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
England are historically bad here but there’s still a meekness to the cricket they are playing. It’s an environment screaming out for fresh impetus from a coaching and captaincy side of things.
We're in the lead!
Overton is one of the worst players to play for England in my liftime.
Not sure why everyone is saying England are lost already.
With Leach and Mahmood we still have our two best batsmen to come.
With Leach and Mahmood we still have our two best batsmen to come.
How old are you?
Absolute disgrace
Who the feck is this guy Mayers?
His figures in this match are just crazy.
His figures in this match are just crazy.
Just shy of 30, one of the worst bowlers specifically.
tbf, it's a classic RedCafe post, although it's usually in the context of United 'fans' talking about United players.
Maybe @Tottenhamguy is just trying to fit in with the crowd.
What on earth are you actually talking about?
You don’t half chat some waffle sometimes.
Bowlers I won't argue with. Otherwise I was about to start listing batting allrounders of the mid nineties.
Oh calm down
We are at a really, really low ebb.
Fair play to this Windies this side, but christ they are average. And they fully deserve to beat us.
Fair play to this Windies this side, but christ they are average. And they fully deserve to beat us.
Overton is shite though.
He's looked an average county cricket bowler.
I don't even know where England go from here, Root is a bad captain but the team is so fecking awful I think any captain in history would struggle.
Unless the pitch is an utter road they can't bat, they can't take 20 wickets and the catching and general fielding is shite. This is worse than the 90s, at least then we were getting beat by sides with all time legends of the game in their team.
Awful. Root has to step down as captain. His record is shockingly bad in the last 18 months.
He's looked an average county cricket bowler.
I don't even know where England go from here, Root is a bad captain but the team is so fecking awful I think any captain in history would struggle.
Unless the pitch is an utter road they can't bat, they can't take 20 wickets and the catching and general fielding is shite. This is worse than the 90s, at least then we were getting beat by sides with all time legends of the game in their team.
Awful. Root has to step down as captain. His record is shockingly bad in the last 18 months.
Roots captaincy is a total mess but does it solve anything? Who takes over?
Absolute shambles. Quite angry about it but I am on a bus in Central London so that might be related.
No probably doesn't change anything, because the general quality of our Test side is so low, and feck knows who takes over.
I just think we've reached the point now where he has to step down just on principle alone. Just for the sense of some accountability.
1 win in 17 matches and 5 series defeats in a row, I'm amazed he's not stepped down himself to be honest.
Yeah I can't argue with that.
Yep. The question is 'should we change the captain even though we have no sensible alternatives, just for the sake of changing the captain' and the answer is yes.
Which is very grim but it's where we are.
Which is very grim but it's where we are.
Laughable how in Australia, our bowling wasn't really the issue yet they drop our two most experienced bowlers. Don't think the bowling unit needs a reset to be honest, but I get that they need to start looking at new options to replace them, I just don't think they should have dropped both.
Root needs to give up the captaincy. Never rated him in that regard plus his grin really grinds my gears. Stokes is the only option they can give it too but something needs to change.
Crawley shouldn't open. He should be in at 4 imo.
Lees has been decent, can you imagine him and Sibley as an opening pair? Crikey.
Root needs to give up the captaincy. Never rated him in that regard plus his grin really grinds my gears. Stokes is the only option they can give it too but something needs to change.
Crawley shouldn't open. He should be in at 4 imo.
Lees has been decent, can you imagine him and Sibley as an opening pair? Crikey.
Don't think he has. Highest score of 31 when he's played on two extremely friendly pitches is bad.
Yeah I was being kind. The standard of debuts have been so low but his technique atleast looks more assured then Burns and Sibley.
(deep intake of breath)
What about Woakes as captain? He's experienced (albeit not with captaincy) can do a job with bat and ball (especially in England), and he seems level-headed, grounded, respected, and pragmatic.
I am not saying it will work, but it might take the pressure of some of the stars to give it to someone who no-one expects miracles from.
Woakes shouldn’t be anywhere near the side away from home, never mind captain.
Yesterday was one the worst days I've seen watching England in test cricket. Just a completely infuriating humiliating day from almost start to finish.
West Indies deserve to win the match and the series and fair play to them for that but they're a painfully average side, it's not like England were getting slapped around by a great side or even a particularly good side. That's what makes it so awful.
England have bad players being badly coached led by a bad captain, and worst of all they seem to have a habit of just giving up when it gets tough. The last test in the Ashes they gave up and they did the same thing yesterday.
They're so used to losing I don't even think it registers as unacceptable to them anymore. Huge similarities with the current Utd team and set up.
West Indies deserve to win the match and the series and fair play to them for that but they're a painfully average side, it's not like England were getting slapped around by a great side or even a particularly good side. That's what makes it so awful.
England have bad players being badly coached led by a bad captain, and worst of all they seem to have a habit of just giving up when it gets tough. The last test in the Ashes they gave up and they did the same thing yesterday.
They're so used to losing I don't even think it registers as unacceptable to them anymore. Huge similarities with the current Utd team and set up.
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I think you can conceivably do this in a world where Anderson and Broad retire of their own free will.
Despite this being true.
My personal out there shout is we should have temporary captains. Captaincy is announced for a series when the squad is. We accept that our options aren't secure enough in the side for the long term gig and then casually drop them and pick someone else when either their individual performances or captaincy is a load of shite, or they want a rest, or we don't fancy them in the conditions of an away series.
In doing so we give the coach more control, so as to somewhat reduce the chaotic shifts.
In doing so we give the coach more control, so as to somewhat reduce the chaotic shifts.
Well at least the women came back from a disaster start to the World Cup and have made the semis
Yeah, I can see them beating South Africa now. Winning the thing seems a step too far as Australia look levels above everyone else but it would be nice to get there and find out (Windies can pull shocks as well, you never know).
It’s a 50-50 game vs South Africa who have been playing really good cricket while England still have a few passengers in the team
The other option is to call up a specialist captain like Abell or Rhodes, someone who on paper isn’t really England quality at either batting or bowling but can lead the team. It’s not like any of the batters at the moment are playing England quality either.
After the Silverwood mess we need to be taking power away from the coach in the short/medium term.
They’re a good side, albeit I kinda expected them to not win a match at some point and miss out, so they’ve done very well and been lucky with the weather (which was needed after the t20 World Cup rain elimination). Good chance at reaching the final although the Aussies are still HUGE favourites. England did push them close first game mind, and anything can happen in a one off final (assuming West Indies don’t beat them in the semi)
It’s about right, although I would not be that extreme. At this moment in time I feel they should pick the best captain in county cricket who could fit into the team without negatively impacting the quality of the team (Burns, Abell, Vince, Billings etc.) and give them a stint to steady the ship and build the team up then come back in a year and see where we are. A rolling contract captain, that’s where English cricket is.
The need to bring the chief selector role back and take that responsibility away from just the coach but I also think the coach will need to be very hands-on. There’s no reliable captaincy option and a dearth of cricketers with the right skills for test cricket. England are going to need someone like Duncan Fletcher who came in, selected players like Trescothick and Vaughan based on what they could potentially offer rather than what they were offering in County Cricket at the time and helped develop them into top international players. The key with Fletcher was he had a vision for the skills he was looking for, the next coach needs to be the same and it will have to be a long term project.
Some thoughts (feel free to disagree) :
We're nowhere near as bad as we're showing right now. It's barely a year since we were hammering India in Chennai and winning in Sri Lanka.
The loss of the fast bowlers is a massive blow, as it leaves our attack looking horridly one-dimensional. Overton's a good cricketer but he shouldn't be playing tests for England.
In addition, we've got a real weakness in the spin department. They should have stuck with Bess - he offers more than Leach as an all-round package.
The batting will be ok in time but we have to find an opening partnership. I'd stick with Crawley and identify a young opener with potential (e.g. Lammonby).
Root should step down as captain. Stokes won't be a panacea but surely a fresh voice is needed now.
We really are not very good right now. I was genuinely worried England were going to come down and smash us and win down here for the first time in 60 odd years or however long it was. It really has been surprising how it’s gone, and not to dog the efforts of our players or anything but a lot of it really seems to be down to England not being that good.
England kinda remind me of United. You have guys like Root and Stokes who are among the best of the best (Root had his best scoring year ever didnt he?) along with guys like Bairstow, Anderson, Broad who are all pretty good (Free my boy Jos Buttler), and then the rest of the players very rarely seem fit for purpose.
He is bad. But considering his height and pace, to me Jake Ball is the worst player i‘ve seen play test match cricket. 4 tests, 3 wickets, 114 avg, 204 S/R
I don’t disagree with the concept, but we’ve just had a situation where a coach had too much power and throwing two jobs onto the next coach isn’t going to help anything especially when the new head of selectors will inevitably bring some issues. It’s easy to put faith into people when you have experience around them, which we lack in almost every area right now.
It could conceivably work if we split the coach roles but there is zero indication that the ECB are willing to do that, because they’re stuck in 1973.
Yep. There's plenty of talent there, we just need to identify the lads with the raw materials and back them.
And obviously remodel county cricket in the meantime.
I'd have no issue with this.
Put the highlights on expecting Mayers to be a gun, but he just bowls some dibbly-dobblies