It is indeed mate. And yeah a lot of folk on Redcafe anyway are on edge it seems.Aye, I get that... thing is, tone is lost in text.
He isn't the toxic sort, simply not a leader yet the club put him in that role. We've any number of issues at the club as pointed out in my reply.
Shouldn't come as a surprise that supporters are on edge right now
Ralf Rangnick | ex-interim manager | does anyone rate him?
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Nailed it.
Refreshing to see some common sense here and not instant gratification and little picture mentality by someone.
That seems like another bs statement. Who's the hierarchy? Amongst others, Murtough and Arnold, who clearly know the problems we have and seem to change things
Some of you are honestly coming across like you would have been happy to cheer on another season of Ole-ball, get into the top four, and keep falling further adrift of our rivals.
The season Liverpool sacked Rodgers, they could have potentially gone for a 'safer' option than Klopp who may have snuck into the top four. In that parallel universe, they would have missed out on Klopp and probably still been a meme club today. They however went for the manager who would stick to his methods, even if it meant some terrible short-term results, all with the future in mind. This is exactly the approach we are now taking, yet some just can't stop fecking moaning about it. Wise up.
The season Liverpool sacked Rodgers, they could have potentially gone for a 'safer' option than Klopp who may have snuck into the top four. In that parallel universe, they would have missed out on Klopp and probably still been a meme club today. They however went for the manager who would stick to his methods, even if it meant some terrible short-term results, all with the future in mind. This is exactly the approach we are now taking, yet some just can't stop fecking moaning about it. Wise up.
People can’t get to grips with modern football. Poor them.
Well said. Ole’s biggest failure, however, is the transfers of VDB and Varane. The former doesn’t suit the league in our system and the latter has been injured so often. Coupled with the busy two seasons, our core players run out of steam at the early stage of the season. Ronaldo’s transfer definitely creates many issues as you said. The whole situation is complicated. Only time will tell what truly happened behind the scenes.
Literally the first pages of this thread are filled with posts about Ralf having a vision for the club, and plenty didn't expect some instant upturn given the state we were in.
Some honestly seem like they would have been happy to get someone like Howe in as interim, and sneak into top-four. The Board then could have justifiably hired him and we would become a total fecking laughing stock for the next 3-years. Has Ralf done well as a coach? Not particularly. Does it look like he's identified problematic areas? Yes. Did he arrive with a longer term vision for the club in mind? It certainly appears so.
I think a-lot of the negativity is from the pro-Ole group, who just can't accept that we essentially wasted 3-years under him. There's a reason why we went from 2nd to 7th, and probably 6th or 7th again, twice now. It's because both finishes were totally false and weren't indicators of where we were. This club has been an absolute shambles for years now, and the Board got away with it under Ole, because he gave an illusion of some sort of 'progress' and the fans never got on his back. The only ones who benefited from Ole's tenure was the Board, who could bury their heads in the sand and pretend everything was just fine.
FOr gods sake enough of the Ole rubbish. THis season exposed the Ole myth. He set us up to play counter, you wont win anything playing like that, especially as our defense was still not very good and our DMs poor. We had NO idea versus the lower teams. There was no coaching. His man managmenet was appalling, he lacked the mean streak to get rid of players and refused to bring in qualified support. Encouraged loads to stay, then signed more players we didnt need. Hence the meltdown now. He has gone, will never get a meaningful managerial role. GO and cry into your Ole shirt.
Why would I even argue with someone like you that just makes up stuff on the go...but go on, elaborate on those points I put in bold, I'm very interested.
Your first sentence I think is key. We all knew the type of football Ralf plays and in the very first game we all saw it. Albeit for 20 minutes. From then the players decided they didn't like the hard work that it involved and decided to take the rest of the season off. Once that happens there's no way Ralf was making top 4 and at least 80% of the blame lies with the players.
People can blame his formations all they want but professional footballers have to be adaptable. He's tried every formation in the book which doesn't mean Jack if the players aren't prepared to buy into it. Everyones eyes have finally been opened on just how gutless this squad is. I imagine if ETH came in instead of Ralf people would now be calling for his head because he's just as hard a task master as Ralf.
How where we going somewhere under Ole? Yes he did get some good results against top teams but once they realised we were nothing more than a hit and run team they adapted their tactics and we couldn't buy a win against them for nearly the whole of last season. As for signing players like Ronaldo. Ole didn't fail trying to shoehorn players into the team. He failed because with the players we signed he was expected to play a different kind of football rather than his counter attacking tactics and he was found to be woefully short.
Having to rip up every single thing after Oles tenure speaks volumes on how his tenure actually was regardless of what 2 top 4 finishes meant. 3 years wasted on this so called cultural reboot and people are still defending him and continually sticking the knife into Ralf for trying to clean up the mess he left behind. It's absurd.
I was a staunch Ole supporter and still love the guy, but everything the other poster said was absolutely bang on.
Why would I even argue with someone like you that just makes up stuff on the go...but go on, elaborate on those points I put in bold, I'm very interested.
We've not had a solid and successful football structure in over a decade, it isn't simply Ole's fault. We've failed to produce / develop a world class player in that time frame, almost every hot talent we buy or promote to the senior squad fails and quickly... coincidence?
Now if you want to provide examples to me otherwise where we've shown ourselves to have solid scouting, coaching, development of players in the last decade I truly am curious.
Really the biggest issue on this forum nowadays is that so many people don't really know what they want anymore, or they do but they don't have the patience and can't help reacting to every single individual event.
A lot of people were saying when Rangnick joined that they would accept poor results as long as it signalled some kind of longer term progress. Obviously time will tell on whether that proves to be the case, and if we are being realistic there hasn't been anything obvious to really get behind Ralf for - apart from publicly (& mostly politely) slagging our players off which anybody could have done. On pitch has been very underwhelming, but it was always quite possible and also quite predictable that his ultimate assessment was going to be that this squad are not capable of playing the football we want to be playing.
I do though find it extremely comforting and confidence inspiring that people are now under no illusions that the club has to change fundamentally. How much of that is down to Ralf airing our dirty laundry is anyone's guess, but I don't think its a coincidence that everything is now being laid bare. He has set the tone for that, and if that truly kickstarts a root and branch change of attitude at the club then he has delivered his brief and then some.
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leak leak leak
Mate you either a WUM or a liverpool fan, If you cannot answer all those points in bold you dont understand football or have not watched United over the last couple of years. If these points really need to be explained to you then you will never get it. As I said, Ole is gone, will never get another gig, get over it.
Why would I even argue with someone like you that just makes up stuff on the go...but go on, elaborate on those points I put in bold, I'm very interested.
Then they would have hired Fat Sam. They absolutely knew that they would not keep him as manager beyond the end of the season. His remit was a lot more.
They think he is a cool pot smoking Dutchman. None of the Dutch who were top coaches were cool and calm. At least Ralf say it in a calm matter of fact way.
The situations aren't very similar and the approach is not "exactly" the same at all. Liverpool quickly fired Rodgers and quickly hired a highly-regarded manager who they wanted as their permanent, full-time manager. United were much slower and hired an interim manager instead of picking a permanent one. The only major similarity is that both people hired were German.
These lads are more worried about showing up Rangnick than playing for the shirt. They don't have a leg to stand on.
Not well received by the hierarchy? Really? Murtough deeply respects Rangnick, surely they could've leaked something slightly more believable
these players live in a fantasy, they genuinely believe it's not their fault. What's even more sad is they seem to think the fans are on their side They first lost faith in LVG - 'he doesn't allow us to express ourselves', they said; then, they lost faith in Jose - 'he is very strict, and keeps to himself', they said; then, they lost faith in Ole - 'he doesn't train us, and we have stagnated due to his methods', they said; now, they have lost faith in Ralf - 'he saps our confidence and belief', they say.
Unbelievable, these players, just unbelievable.
Unbelievable, these players, just unbelievable.
first off....they need to find this leak/mole and shut him up and sack him
as for the players, you are professionals and going to a back 5 shouldn't require a massive amount of training to understand the tactical demands you fuking muppets
I am not too sure about this, this thread alone has been quite divided over which side people choose to support.
Not well received by the hierarchy? Really? Murtough deeply respects Rangnick, surely they could've leaked something slightly more believable
It's got to be some of the English lads, the leaks are only coming from English journalists.
Don't they know that the fans and everyone else had lost their faith in the players? That the fans want most of them sold and have enough of them throwing out the toys and all these leaks?
Yeah maybe their propaganda is actually doing a number on the fanbase. Who knows?
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This was expected. They were never going to accept big mistakes made in the past
Not many. The usual suspects of Ole inners and some new members who could be the same Ole inners and the Pok fans who thought Ralf was instrumental in getting ETH. For all the truth Ralf may have recommended The Pok for all we know.
err...you don't have to be "convinced by him" or to have made your mind up about him in January. It's a temporary role, you just had to do your best until the new manager arrived
I agree as Ralf defended Maguire by saying that he is taking the rap for the mistakes of all the others.
It doesn't mean Maguire is playing well.
So Rashford? Ronaldo doesn't seem to be unhappy with the manager.
I do agree that there's an element of uncertainty across the forum, and there are several groups at play who appear to want different things. Jose and Ole, by far-and-away divided our fanbase the most. We didn't see anything near the same extent with Moyes and LvG. I guess when Moyes went, Fergie wasn't long gone and the fanbase was relatively unified. With LvG, the overwhelming majority agreed that he had to go.
The problems started with Jose; because while most could see we were making very suspect signings, and not really making any sustainable progression; this could be countered with 2nd place; best points finish post-Fergie; FA Cup Final; LC win; EL win etc. The exact same thing happened with Ole; away wins record; some semi finals; EL Final; 3rd place, followed by 2nd place etc. Both groups could feel confident in vindicating their views as to why Ole/Jose were/weren't progressing the club. This created these bullshit 'camps' that are still very evident on the Caf today.
There is this weird affinity that some seem to have towards our post-Fergie managers. Fergie was an absolute God, and should be remembered and revered as such. But any managers that came in after him? They're all massive failures in my book. The only argument is 'who was the best of a bad bunch' and that very much comes down to personal opinion. I probably preferred Ole's tenure the best, but it was still a total shit-show, and he was never remotely qualified for the job in-hand. I just find it bizarre the lengths some go to, to defend any post-Fergie appointment; it's such a weird hill to die on.
The club has structurally been a total mess for a decade now; and this was all meant to be rectified after Ole's interim period. The club took the lazy way out and gave the gig to Ole; knowing full well he wasn't qualified for the job, and knowing full well the issues within the club. It's not his fault the Board took the easy way, but he ultimately failed at the job he was given. Hiring under-qualified interims after a good 'new manager bounce' has never worked, and it never will. We are finally getting our shit together and I'm feeling optimistic about our future. However, there will be inevitable bumps in the road and patience is needed. Once I can see a clear plan; a workable structure and an identifiable tactical plan, I'll be happy. That's without the obvious culling of the squad, and signing the right profile of player.
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No one said they were 'exact'. It's about the paths both clubs chose. If you can't see any correlations, cool.
Too much drama and leaks.
Some of them already made up their mind in April 2022 Ten Hag is not good enough. Shocker
People seem divided here mainly due to the Ralf-**** followers who are also Ole haters, IMO. As a result, the discussion mainly focuses on Ole vs Ralf. People start fantasy thinking to reflect their will, such as Ralf’s future impact.
The real cause is the club structure which was set up by the owners. No coach can have sustainable success here with that in place. It’s as simple as that.
The real cause is the club structure which was set up by the owners. No coach can have sustainable success here with that in place. It’s as simple as that.
People seem divided due to the Ole-****, who in turn are Ralf haters.
I find it amazing how a bunch of underperforming players who haven't won anything if worth in their careers (bar Ronaldo) don't rate a manager that is revered by some of the world's best managers today (Klopp, Tuchel). The arrogance of them.
That's because Klopp was out of work. So they could easily sack Rodgers and hire Klopp, whom they already had talks anyway.
Already laying down the trap for the next manager. Is this for real? Please please please just bin the lot of them. Unbelievable.
(From the Times UK)
No, no it's better to just keep discrediting the club and not make any positive comparisons to clubs who have had any success. It's also better to bitch and moan about Ralf. They'll be after ETH soon into his tenure no doubt.
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