It's not only Rangnick isn't it? It was the same under the latter part of Ole's tenure.
Rashford considering his future...
- Thread starter Jericholyte2
- Start date
Spot on. Right at the end of the season the majority of us agreed that Rashford was a disgrace (on the pitch) with his most ardent supporters disappearing altogether. Now it seems like many have the memory of a goldfish. A month down the line the general attitudes are those that don't support him are morons or idiots. A player downs tools and yet those calling him out are the idiots? You just couldn't make it up.
Let's see what he's like after a good rest and better training and in a more solid team.
Even for most young players who stand out among their peers, their ceiling is to maybe get to play at level 3 or 4, provided they work really, really hard throughout their teens. The kind of ability Rashford has isn't something you can create through training (although it also isn't something you can develop without training hard). To some extent, your ceiling at the top level is about things you already have or haven't. If you don't have the right kind of fingers, you have zero chance of being a really top pianist, for example. The tiny, tiny minority who get to inhabit the highest reaches are generally the ones who are blessed with special talents or advantages AND work really, really hard.
If ETH plays Sancho more on the left I can see the same problems occurring.
Whatever happens I've got confidence in the manager to quickly see if Rashford is worth keeping or moving on.
Whatever happens I've got confidence in the manager to quickly see if Rashford is worth keeping or moving on.
He shall start a pre season with a new fresh mind. Zero his mind and ready and focus to give the best for the club.
Ralf 6 period months absolutely wasted and zero.
Not only Rashford. Maguire, Bruno, Bissaka and whole as a team. The collective were doing really really poor. And the poor collective affect the invidual performances and confidence.
So shall Ronaldo, Bissaka consider theirs future too?
Even you are not good enough for Ralf Ragnick. Its doesnt mean you are not good enough for Ten Hag too.
New head coach and new way of how peoples look at things. Ralf and Ten Hag i bet i have different taste. Different taste of cup of tea.
If you dont see this. Then i can tell you have a close perspective of how things are working. Not a wider perspective on football and life in general.
Not in football. Every ascpect of life and business area. Different leaders choose peoples theirs trust. And trust and taste are personal, not objective. Why not good for Ralf, but maybe good enough for Ten Hag. If Ten Hag can get more out of the players.
So those are reason to zero your minds. Start with a refresh mind to the pre season. Then...after a month pre season. Then you can consider the future again. After knowing Ten Hag a bit better.
Ralf 6 period months absolutely wasted and zero.
Not only Rashford. Maguire, Bruno, Bissaka and whole as a team. The collective were doing really really poor. And the poor collective affect the invidual performances and confidence.
So shall Ronaldo, Bissaka consider theirs future too?
Even you are not good enough for Ralf Ragnick. Its doesnt mean you are not good enough for Ten Hag too.
New head coach and new way of how peoples look at things. Ralf and Ten Hag i bet i have different taste. Different taste of cup of tea.
If you dont see this. Then i can tell you have a close perspective of how things are working. Not a wider perspective on football and life in general.
Not in football. Every ascpect of life and business area. Different leaders choose peoples theirs trust. And trust and taste are personal, not objective. Why not good for Ralf, but maybe good enough for Ten Hag. If Ten Hag can get more out of the players.
So those are reason to zero your minds. Start with a refresh mind to the pre season. Then...after a month pre season. Then you can consider the future again. After knowing Ten Hag a bit better.
If Rashford is getting a new contract he better not get rewarded for being shit for the past two years.
You might have a point with this long post if Rashford hasn't been off the ball for years, not 6 months.
His technique and brain for football is still the same as when he first broke through, namely not good enough.
The only thing he worked on was getting bigger and faster, if he can't beat his defender he's basically useless and it showed the past 18 months.
Unless he recovers his athleticism again, he'll never be good enough.
Rashford needs to focus on improving himself. Its great he does all this good work outside of football, but football is his primary job, and he has failed at that for a good while now. He's worth keeping, and i hope eth helps him become the footballer we all know he can be. (cough)
United's Theo Walcott, fans waiting years for him to fulfil a potential that was never there from the beginning.
18 year old scores braces in his first two matches. Expert commentator: - It’s clear he isn’t the level we need.
You’re sure about this statement?
I question the way your confidence works, and the way you listen to ‘somethings’.
100% sure as ive watched him home and away since he got on the scene at united and its been clear since then the things that you need to be at the elite level aren't there doesn't mean he won't improve or get better he just doesn't have the finishing or instinct of an Aguero, Van Nistelrooy and so on.
In my opinion these things aren't coachable either you have it or you don't that's what separates the good from the great.
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It was confirmed by Rangnick that Rashford trained to very high standard last season. But he can't convert the form in the training into the match.
It's more phycological and confidence issues, hope ETH or someone can help him.
It's more phycological and confidence issues, hope ETH or someone can help him.
So you see an 18 year old score four goals in two games, and conclude that his finishing skills are uncoachable? I find that hard to believe. I wonder how you would have viewed the finishing of Andy Cole, Ole Gunnar Solskjæ and Harry Kane when they were 18.
I don't Rashford much but thats one helluva bod. He is built like a specimen.
No i have watched him for years, it was an exaggerated comment to make a point, not literally.
Feel free to continue being exact and pedantic, maybe correct my spelling and grammar while you're at it.
He should do more cardio because he was fecking lazy to press last season. Those lifting won’t turn him into pressing forward.
Absolutely, he looks the business.
By all accounts but he looked like that last season and was still out of puff and downing tools 10 minutes into games.
I don’t think you should lay it on others if you write things that aren’t true, for whatever reason. A possibility would be to clear up the misunderstanding the first time around. Calling it pedantic when you quote the first appearance of what most know well as one of the most impressive introductions to first team football in the history of the club, also seems strange to me, at least on a United forum.
Did you see Rashford in 2019/2020, when he was one of the top performers in the team and the NT, when he scored a goal every other game for both teams as a wide forward, and most people, including professional football people, thought he was one of the most interesting young players in the world, and worth £100m? It seems weird to claim that you saw through all that and knew 100% that he could never be a United level player, and could never be taught to finish, whereas evwryone else were 100% wrong and didn’t know what they were talking about. Was that an exaggeration as well, or are you just much more confident in yourself than in anyone else?
I don’t really know if what this thread or discussion needs, is more exaggeration.
If Rashford gets a new contract then I honestly give up.
I've said this before but please tell me one player who has played at the level Rashford has for the last 12/18m who has miraculously turned it around to play at a level we need at United going forward. I cannot think of one.
For all the people who say we need to give another year and he has banked that support, what is going to be different about Rashford?
He is done. 100% certain. Giving him a new contract proves we have learned nothing.
I've said this before but please tell me one player who has played at the level Rashford has for the last 12/18m who has miraculously turned it around to play at a level we need at United going forward. I cannot think of one.
For all the people who say we need to give another year and he has banked that support, what is going to be different about Rashford?
He is done. 100% certain. Giving him a new contract proves we have learned nothing.
I'm not convinced Rashford is "done", but anyone who does believes this has a sound basis for his belief.
You stole my thunder.
You have hit the nail on the head. I would have much rather have viewed him running laps but that probably doesnt have the same instagram impact value.
Also listening to Talksport, his form seems to be getting judged much more favourably with every passing day since the end of the season. Either great marketing or the presenters are even more clueless than I thought.
At this rate, by the first pre season game we will be debating why he wasnt in the team of the year.
With saf players were lucky to get a second chance and rashford is already on his 5th chance ?
And this is ignoring him downing tools and probably leaking dressing room info to journos, which quite frankly is unforgivable.
I don't get how anyone can support his continued presence in the starting xi ? If the club is seriously interested in winning silverware this is not how its done.
And this is ignoring him downing tools and probably leaking dressing room info to journos, which quite frankly is unforgivable.
I don't get how anyone can support his continued presence in the starting xi ? If the club is seriously interested in winning silverware this is not how its done.
Being a young Mancunian nice guy who cost nothing certainly helps. Which is kind of counterintuitive because none of;
-Being young
-Being mancunian
-Being a youth player
-being a nice guy
actually mean you’ll be good enough to make the grade in the future.
I think it's important the fans get behind him at the start of the season. It's a two way street, he has to earn that trust back by putting in the effort and ultimately performances, but it's not going to do anyone any good if everyone starts on his back after a bad game or two. ETH has to get in his head and motivate him and also let him know in no uncertain terms what he expects. If he comes up short this season there is nowhere to go at this club, I think the manager is his last chance.
That's obviously true, but it does mean a certain segment of fans cut him more slack.
Is that surprising? Or weird?
I don't think so.
If the club cuts him undue slack because of it, to the detriment of the football side, we have a problem (obviously). But United fans being - call it what you will - "sentimental" about a youth product is perfectly natural as far as I'm concerned. I've never understood the stance of people who want fans to be "ruthless" - it makes no sense to me.
And - like I've said before many times - there's a very peculiar sort of divide on here between fans who tend to be more patient with youth products/local lads - and those who almost seem to be more hostile towards that category of player per default (which I consider bizarre, to be honest - I mean, why the feck do they support United in the first place, does the local factor mean absolutely nothing to them...and so forth.)
Rashford isn't a youngster bursting onto the scene, your defense of upcoming youth product doesn't apply to him anymore. He got many chances over many years and he's failed, time to move him on and make a decent profit.
Elanga on the other hand deserves to be cut some slack, not rashford.
But Rashford suits Ralf more than Ten Hag.
Id totally be lying if I said I didn’t do the same with Ipswich. And I’m not sure which is ‘right’- maybe everyone should get the leniency (if that’s the right term) that he has got.
oh yeah, and I couldn’t agree more with what you say about that strange subsection of fans of any club who literally cannot WAIT to jump on the back of the latest youth prospect, almost more than they would with any other player. If you wrote down a list of people who did that, and then another list of people who were bellends in real life you’d only need one piece of paper.
Perhaps that is so (I have said myself that if we get a more than decent offer for him, we should take it) - but I don't think you're quite getting what I'm saying.
It's not rational - from a fan perspective. Some people want him to succeed more than a random transfer (talent or quality has nothing to do with it) because he's local. It's as simple as that - if people don't understand that, they don't understand a fundamental (as I see it) aspect of being a United fan (or perhaps a certain kind of United fan).
Perhaps considering his future means he’s just realised he needs to spend more time on his football career, than off-pitch activities. That’s all
You see, you've worded this in such a way that implies he's been poor several seasons now, which is untrue.
He failed last season, sure - just like every other United player - but one poor season in 6 does not constitute a failure overall. He's earned another season to prove his worth to the new manager. Again, just like every other player who underperformed last season.
I won't lie, English players, especially those born in the NW of England, definitely get a little more leeway from me than the others, just as fans from Norway, Sweden, Spain, Lichtenstein or whatever show a slight bias towards players representing their home nation. It's a totally natural thing to do.
What are these numerous chances he's been given that he's failed at? He's played 301 games for United in the league, cups and Europe while scoring 93 goals and having 57 assists. That's a goal contribution every other game.
Wilshere is so stupid
Ok, thank you for the balanced response but a few things on this.
1. I couldn't care less about his non-football ventures if he's not doing the job that allowed him to have the profile to achieve those things in the first place.
I've wanted the guy out for two years because his performances have been woeful even when he was scoring because he's detrimental to the way we play and in the long run it is going nowhere quickly.
2. On being on the same side. Are we really though? We've seen him barely move on the pitch this season in huge games, such as the Manchester derby. You can attribute that to injuries, mental health or whatever else but to me it was pretty obvious he couldn't be bothered.
On top of that, he's always been a very, very physical player and reliant on those characteristics. There's two issues here. If he's indeed crooked, we should get rid, as we don't need another Phil Jones. If he's still there physically, I still don't believe he fits in the way a team like us plays i.e. on the edge of the opponent's box (or how we should play...).
3. Finally, the double standards. For me, he's always looked a bit too clean for comfort and has been allowed way too much. I don't hear people supporting Martial the same way and they've basically been in the same form for 2 seasons (although Rashford was posting the numbers in the 2020/21 season).
It all comes down to the fact that I'm seeing another instance of Rooneyism. He looks done, the fans know it and can see it but we'll give him a new contract and he'll remain a toxic presence in the dressing room, just like he was last season (even if people like Neville would not say it outright).
This is all my opinion of course but I find it baffling how he's been given so much leeway for being poor at the start of his prime. If we were a serious football club, we'd sell this summer, like Mane and Liverpool and won't have to read any more of the bollocks after the Manchester derby where stories were coming out he was in huge demand.
Good post.