Cristiano Ronaldo (I stay)

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Theonas

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At the end of the day, you’re gonna believe whatever suits your agenda so it’s futile we even try and engage here. Ronaldo, the guy who has been exemplary every where he’s gone coupled with unprecedented success is suddenly this rotten apple that has wreaked havoc upon a club that was already very troubled before he even arrived.
Exemplary wherever he goes? Where did you pluck that one out from? He never had the worst reputation or the best. Players admired him and respected him but there was also multiple reports of malaise in the dressing room because of his behavior, the latest of which came from Bonucci. The pattern is when he is scoring 40 or 50 goals a season, being a diva is tolerated and even respected, just like if you are a Conte or Mourinho, when you win, it's all part of their character and winning mentality or whatever... But when the performances dry up which is only natural at his age, all is left is the childish and self centered attitude.

The thing is, he is right in complaining about this team, but what he doesn't understand is that it's only the only top brand in Europe that will take him, let alone indulge him. He just doesn't seem to understand that he just isn't deemed good enough to be part of the best teams and that the behavior he got away with for most his career was purely because his return was extraordinary. In short, if you are going to act like a diva, you better play like one.
 

BusbyMalone

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At this point, the 15 goals he's probably going to get this season isn't worth the fecking aggro. Also, if it leaves us short it leaves us short. We're in a fecking mess anyway. You surely have to weigh up the pros and cons of him staying. And I don't think the 15-goal mark is worth it.
 

Smores

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We should just let him leave, he's incapable of being happy with our shitness unlike some of our players.

I find the fan reaction to be spurned amusing though. Grown men calling someone a cnut because they want to leave our mess of a club, yet they'll say nothing about players revelling in mediocrity.

Most of our best historic players would be trying to leave in the same situation.
 

troylocker

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Everyone will only see the bad side in this, seems to be the norm nowadays, although Ronaldo hasn't made it easy on himself of course, and no one will think 2 steps ahead about this tweet and see that maybe he's arguing against it because whenever he tries to lead the press their teammates just stand there watching him run alone at someone, and obviously there's no point in attempting a high pressing system if when he starts to press no one follows him.

Everyone mentions him shaking his head after the 0-4 but everyone seemingly forgot how he really, really tried rallying his teammates after the 0-1 and 0-2. Even tried rallying everyone by saying they only needed one goal to get back into the game, and we all know how that went afterwards.

No one cares about Ronaldo having to drop back almost right into the midfield line to get a pass in the 63rd minute, only to immediately dash forward with pace, lay the ball to someone else, and run again into space to create a passing line, after their teammates were passing sideways for 40 seconds in the midfield line while losing 0-4 to fecking Brentford. While everyone had given up last weekend, Ronaldo was mad at himself for missing 2 headers in the 2nd half, knowing he could've done better with both of those, and clearly in discontent with himself because that's the standard he has. He has a sense of pride, self awareness, and feels ashamed to be a part of this circus (and he is a part of this circus, no way around that), but has the mentality to try what he can to dig himself and the team out of it, regardless of whether it works or not by the end of the game.

People are more emotionally invested in someone who doesn't want to be here but has good reasons not to want to, after consistently giving match winning goals and points all of last season, consistently making up with goals for the same kind of personal and defensive mistakes we saw last weekend, and not seeing an ounce of pride of desire in most their teammates to even attempt a top 4 finish while he kept scoring against Tottenham, Norwich, Arsenal trying to achieve the bare minimum for United standards. Ronaldo had a bad game this weekend, but if anyone had the United DNA in that pitch it was him. And that's while he's unhappy at the club. I didn't see the captain Maguire rallying his troops like the unhappy Ronaldo tried. I barely saw anyone caring in the 2nd half to get a goal back or two, even if just for their own self pride.

There's only so much a guy like Ronaldo can take. Like him or not, he achieved what he did in football because of his brain, and most their teammates are nowhere near the basic level of what it takes to be a successful footballer (and I'm not talking techncal ability). I don't think he's ever gone through a situation like this, and I think it's clear he's struggling a bit on the emotional side, and that's leading him to making some mistakes like not going to the fans and apologising. He's not been perfect in the last 3 months, surely, but there's bigger problems in the squad and he's still soaking up pressure from the media and the fans because the spotlight is always on him, and whenever things get back to a smidge of normality, he'll continue to protect everyone else around him like always by scoring match winning goals, producing the goods, many times tapering mistakes in the otjer side of the field.

Again, I reiterate he's not perfect, and I think he's not been at his best emotionally and in some attitudes lately, but we're at a crossroads, a big one, for the club, and not a single one of our players has been perfect in terms of attitude. I look at some mistakes Ronaldo has made lately, but look to him on the pitch and I see a United player. Almost everyone else, I see a lot of good vibes, a lot of happiness, and a big bunch of empty souls on the field whenever things take the wrong turn. No one has been perfect lately, including him, but if I had to side with someone, I'd side with Ronaldo.
Wow!

Regarding your opening statment:
Ronaldo made 5 pressings in the 90 minutes he played on Saturday, Toney made 17 and Mbuemo made 12 in 72 minutes....
The rest of our team did less pressing than usual, but still: Our other attacking players: Rashford 11 in 90 min, Sancho 9 in 59 minutes, Bruno 11 .....

He doesn't lead the line, because he doesn't do more than the occasional pressing. No one in the top 5 leagues does less pressing than him, while Brentford forced errors on us over and over again in that 1st half. I've said it many times before: It is not possible to play progressive high press football with the man with the lowest pressing numbers in Europe leading the line. Not possible. If that is the kind of football we want to play, we will always fail with Ronaldo playing up top. Add to the story that every team statistic has taken massive drops for us and almost every player in our squad has degressed since his arrival. It's only one way out of this mess.
....how much of media's attention were on Ronaldo wanting to leave or missing preseason vs. anything else regarding the club/other players/manager? Do you really think this toxic circus is good for the club?

You painted a perfect picture of the situation in an earlier post (not in the way you intended though):

It's a shame everyone is focused on this guy while deadwood is rotting around him.
It is true that all the focus is on him and that players are rotting around him.
He needs to go now and it will take some time to get the rotting deadwood "blossoming" again.
 

Berbaclass

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At this point, the 15 goals he's probably going to get this season isn't worth the fecking aggro. Also, if it leaves us short it leaves us short. We're in a fecking mess anyway. You surely have to weigh up the pros and cons of him staying. And I don't think the 15-goal mark is worth it.
Martial will score those goals.
 

Grylte

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Has anyone made the game FlappybiR7 yet?
 

BusbyMalone

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At the end of the day, you’re gonna believe whatever suits your agenda so it’s futile we even try and engage here. Ronaldo, the guy who has been exemplary every where he’s gone coupled with unprecedented success is suddenly this rotten apple that has wreaked havoc upon a club that was already very troubled before he even arrived.
What you said there looks awfully familiar to this tweet. Do you run this account?

 

Anderson_7_

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Ronaldo is just a media-bait distraction. Let's keep our eye on the ball and stop following the shiny objects.

There are too many problems that go way beyond one player.
 

MrEleson

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Exemplary wherever he goes? Where did you pluck that one out from? He never had the worst reputation or the best. Players admired him and respected him but there was also multiple reports of malaise in the dressing room because of his behavior, the latest of which came from Bonucci. The pattern is when he is scoring 40 or 50 goals a season, being a diva is tolerated and even respected, just like if you are a Conte or Mourinho, when you win, it's all part of their character and winning mentality or whatever... But when the performances dry up which is only natural at his age, all is left is the childish and self centered attitude.

The thing is, he is right in complaining about this team, but what he doesn't understand is that it's only the only top brand in Europe that will take him, let alone indulge him. He just doesn't seem to understand that he just isn't deemed good enough to be part of the best teams and that the behavior he got away with for most his career was purely because his return was extraordinary. In short, if you are going to act like a diva, you better play like one.
Please link me to the multiple reports of his behaviour in the dressing room at previous clubs. I really want to see them.

Bonucci said absolutely nothing about his supposed behaviour.

This is what Chiellni recently had to say:

 

bakalhau

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Wow!

Regarding your opening statment:
Ronaldo made 5 pressings in the 90 minutes he played on Saturday, Toney made 17 and Mbuemo made 12 in 72 minutes....
The rest of our team did less pressing than usual, but still: Our other attacking players: Rashford 11 in 90 min, Sancho 9 in 59 minutes, Bruno 11 .....

He doesn't lead the line, because he doesn't do more than the occasional pressing. No one in the top 5 leagues does less pressing than him, while Brentford forced errors on us over and over again in that 1st half. I've said it many times before: It is not possible to play progressive high press football with the man with the lowest pressing numbers in Europe leading the line. Not possible. If that is the kind of football we want to play, we will always fail with Ronaldo playing up top. Add to the story that every team statistic has taken massive drops for us and almost every player in our squad has degressed since his arrival. It's only one way out of this mess.
....how much of media's attention were on Ronaldo wanting to leave or missing preseason vs. anything else regarding the club/other players/manager? Do you really think this toxic circus is good for the club?

You painted a perfect picture of the situation in an earlier post (not in the way you intended though):


It is true that all the focus is on him and that players are rotting around him.
He needs to go now and it will take some time to get the rotting deadwood "blossoming" again.
Hi there troy!

I'm not going to argue against your pressing stats, since my point isn't that Ronaldo is either good at pressing or does it a lot. We all know that. We have also seen he's willing to do more of it and learn as he took the feedback to heart last season and was lauded in here for pressing and dropping back to help defending a few games after that criticism was pointed out to him. Your pressing stats help me in that he doesn't indeed do it a lot, so when he actually does it, and the LW and RW stand there instead of moving up on the pitch, there's something seriously wrong going on, and Ronaldo isn't getting the positive reinforcement that doing it is actually helping the team, since he's doing it alone, and it's no wonder he ends giving up on doing it and maybe it's fair enough that the issue arose during the training session. Talking about things in training doesn't mean he's moaning like a 5-year old child. But people will read the tweet and will read without trying to contextualize it just the tiniest bit. As for the pressing stats, I can't argue against you.

As for your final point, eh... I don't think at this moment I intend much with my posts. I'm just trying to point out a few things and trying to balance the discussion. Everyone has made up their mind about Ronaldo by now. I 100% respect your view and I think both sides of the fanbase by now understand that it's good for everyone if he leaves. I don't want to sound like Ronaldo is perfect and we should be pounding everyone else first and try to get them out the door immediately while Ronaldo stays and gets lauded by fans and pundits. But I do think a part of the fanbase is focusing too much on him, while I see even deeper problems that should be tackled first somewhere else. I think United need more players like Ronaldo from a mentality point of view, but I completely get it that it would be positive if he left so we could looking longer term and start rebuilding something that needs to be rebuilt from the ground up, and that the kind of work that needs to be done, no Messi, no Ronaldo, and Pele and no Maradona could ever hope to resolve by themselves. I also agree with you about the rotting players blossoming again. I think a quite large portion of said players will never blossom again, but I do see some players that are quality and can fight back from psychological issues to regain their confidence and reach their best quality again. Varane looks like a shadow of himself and I've watched him his entire career at Madrid and he's quality, just not right now. Bruno I trust can fight back too, etc. And in that way, as many of you say, it would be better if he left so Erik can keeping watching the group play, and make sure by the time next season starts, we let go of the rotting players, and keep those who have spirit, care, want to be successful at United and want to make United go back to where it belongs.

Thanks for taking the time to reply!
 

HaliRed

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If, and that's a very important "if", the rumours are true and he is challenging EtH in the dressing room and in training, then it is best for all parties that he moves on.

No hard feelings at all. We are re-building and he is in the twilight of his career looking for more records and titles. We simply are not a match.

I would wish him well, and we can move on.

Has nothing to do with CR7's ability or desire, but the manager needs to be the boss. We simply must stick to the long term plan, or else we are just going to be repeating the same cycles of the past 10 years.
 

CM

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Who is this guy? I've seen his channel a couple of times and they have like 1.5 million subscribers? They where on tour as well and he seems to love Ronaldo but seems to hate the Glazers? Wasn't the Glazers who brought back Ronaldo and his silly wages?
YouTube personality who makes money off United being shit
 

bakalhau

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These Ronaldo fans who don’t appear to support any specific club. So weird.
But as much as there's a myriad of defense forces around the world with Ronaldo, maybe some of the points raised by said fans are worth thinking about (definitely not all of them as many points they raise are absurd). We prefer to focus on rumours, waving arms during the training, instead of listening closely to a guy that played alongside him and says Ronaldo hides problems. That should be a huge red flag for United fans that it's also what's going on with us. That should be the main concern after reading what a player like Chiellini who's been a serial winner his whole life has to say. But the main concern is which twitter account posted it. We also prefer to ignore and mock twitter accounts that point out the obvious (you cannot find one single player who has something bad to say about him), and instead prefer to believe a player who has never been an issue in any team, ever, is an issue at United, instead of thinking maybe the largest problem lies somewhere else.
 

Theonas

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Please link me to the multiple reports of his behaviour in the dressing room at previous clubs. I really want to see them.

Bonucci said absolutely nothing about his supposed behaviour.

This is what Chiellni recently had to say:

Interesting that you only focus on that one part of my reply. Are you really being this obtuse? Over the past 15 years, you haven't heard of reports Ronaldo is being difficult? Or did you choose to ignore all of that under the "fake news" excuse? Here is a link from Bonucci and another from Buffon who admittedly revised his opinion which still suggests the man comes with baggage. Even our own players when he was here in his first stint were fed up with him until he started scoring and being one of the greatest players in the world, that's when their feelings about his attitude turned into begrudging tolerance and later admiration for his single-mindedness, determination blabla ... Once his performances dipped, he was always going to have nothing to fall back on.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/cristiano-ronaldo-juventus-man-utd-25250834

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ronaldo-comments-man-united-juventus-22619574
 

Someone

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Ronaldo decided to be a problem the moment he didn't show up for training. I really wanted him to continue this season in the hope that he'd lead the team into this new era through great commitment and optimism. Instead he decided to abandon ship, and he made it public knowledge as well. Hope he leaves as soon as possible.
 

DJ_21

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He simply has to go he’s becoming a major problem and apparently he’s unhappy with ten hags tactics as he don’t like pressing from the front.
 

Classical Mechanic

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Interesting that you only focus on that one part of my reply. Are you really being this obtuse? Over the past 15 years, you haven't heard of reports Ronaldo is being difficult? Or did you choose to ignore all of that under the "fake news" excuse? Here is a link from Bonucci and another from Buffon who admittedly revised his opinion which still suggests the man comes with baggage. Even our own players when he was here in his first stint were fed up with him until he started scoring and being one of the greatest players in the world, that's when their feelings about his attitude turned into begrudging tolerance and later admiration for his single-mindedness, determination blabla ... Once his performances dipped, he was always going to have nothing to fall back on.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/cristiano-ronaldo-juventus-man-utd-25250834

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ronaldo-comments-man-united-juventus-22619574
Indeed, there were major issues with Ronaldo and Ruud Van Nistelrooy. IIRC I think Ruud gave him a black eye in training but Ronaldo exploded shortly after and it was Ruud that was shown the door.
 

Sviken

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What you said there looks awfully familiar to this tweet. Do you run this account?

He was pretty disruptive in 2006 and 2008 though. Remember the slave comments and crying about his treatment of the Euros? SAF quickly reigned him but he has always been problematic, I think even Madrid fans would testify to that.
 

Theonas

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Indeed, there were major issues with Ronaldo and Ruud Van Nistelrooy. IIRC I think Ruud gave him a black eye in training but Ronaldo exploded shortly after and it was Ruud that was shown the door.
Yeah because Sir Alex rightly judged the high maintenance/return chart and judged that Ronaldo was potentially worth... which was spectacularly proven right. Almost 20 years later, and he is far from worth, he isn't even worth it for the likes of Atlético Madrid who know their place is firmly behind the top tier.
 
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