Great to hear Keano calling him out
Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch
- Thread starter Samid
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Has them playing very well and thw signings of Jesus and Zinchenko was very shrewd. The resemblence to a pep team is there and is probably what Arteta is working towards. With a few more right signings they can be a regular top 4 team. Id feel positive if I was an arsenal fan.
First goal and the second goal just showed the sheer naivety of Lokonga. First goal he was chasing Eriksen I think it was deep into his own half, creating a massive space where he should be for Bruno to run into causing Gabriel to come out and challenge rashly which then caused Zinchenko to tuck in too much.
The second goal he gives a loose pass and he's left wing, again creating a massive hole in the middle of the park that he should be filling.
Lads not a 6 unfortunately and we paid the price for that.
The number of 3-1 victories with counter-attacking goals is a story in itself.
08/09 Season | Champions League SF (A) | Arsenal 1-3 United (Park, Ronaldo 2x)
09/10 Season | Premier League (A) | Arsenal 1-3 United (o.g., Rooney, Park)
17/18 Season | Premier League (A) | Arsenal 1-3 United (Valencia, Lingard 2x)
18/19 Season | FA Cup (A) | Arsenal 1-3 United (Sanchez, Lingard, Martial)
22/23 Season | Premier League (H) | United 3-1 Arsenal (Antony, Rashford 2x)
Ahh, the familiar disingenuous whinges of “We were the better team” echo throughout long trophyless summers while we wait eagerly for another “Champions Again” DVD to be released.
The Lidl Catalans mentality is back again, but sadly, for both of us, the 90s/00s are dim and distant memory.
The Lidl Catalans mentality is back again, but sadly, for both of us, the 90s/00s are dim and distant memory.
Literally the managers job to compensate for such weaknesses.
If only Arteta had a left back in the matchday squad who could have allowed Zinchenko play in midfield instead of Lokonga. Oh wait…
Of course it is, I didn't say otherwise, in fact in my previous post, I said I'd rather we set up to be more solid first instead of trying to play as high as we have been. We don't have the nous yet, or the quality that City have, to play like that at Old Trafford yet.
Yep, maybe he thought having Zinchenko inverted would give us better control of the ball. Perhaps having Zinchenko in there as the 6 would have worked better, we'll never know now. It's all if's and but's anyway now.
Agree. But we are aiming for that level of quality. Thats why im optimistic with Arteta. We are showing gradual signs of being able to execute this high-level brand of football. The truth is you cant get to that level without attempting it.
Roy Keane is a dinosaur. 'He tells it like it is' they say. More he like he tells it like its not.Great to hear Keano calling him out
His whole persona is throwing shade at modern footballers on instagram and their smart phone obsession. 'back in-mee dae we listened to da manager, we not on da fones taken selfies aye'.
The match was very Wenger coming up against Fergie in the latter years. All this talk about Arsenal dominating, but they played right into our hands. They got their equaliser, and whilst it was probably coming, it happened due to a mistake from our end. And even then, when we made a mistake, we got back,and then made another mistake which gifted the chance to Saka. Arsenal had the ball, but were not bombarding us with chances (like they did in the highlighted game above with DDG pulling off save after save).
Arteta making those subs played right into our hands. But even before that, they were there to be hit on the counter with a correct pass or two from us. Everton at home might be a good game to bounce back with though but then they have brentford, spurs and liverpool. That will be a good test especially with Europa sandwiched in with it. He will have to rotate and rest.
Whats your point? The bloke was captain of the most successful team during a long period of time.. if ever there was someone to listen to about standards and expectations etc it would be him. Give me low key “we’ll celebrate today, tomorrow it’s back to work” over “let’s all gather round in the Arsenal dressing room and celebrate finishing 4th with a group hug and a million and one selfies”.
Wow, you really got him there.
To each their own, I guess - you can't expect an Arsenal fan to necessarily like Roy Keane. But it's notable that all the stuff he's usually going on about, like desire, work rate and aggression, is something that this United side has improved on a lot after Brentford and it's coincided with us improving our results as well. Also, his criticism of the modern player's off the field activities usually only comes when they are not performing on the pitch or living up to their potential.
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Witty.
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This is a wind up has to be?
Ironic how Arsenal fans are acting as if they dominated the game for 90 minutes and battered United. It seems somethings never change.
United dominated them in the first 15 minutes and then things became even before we scored a well worked team goal. I would say first half was even but with us scoring it was our half. Even possession wise it was 46 to 54 so nothing huge difference.
Second half they started well and just like us in the first half dominated for the first 15 minutes before they scored a well deserved goal, which to be honest they were fortunate with. After that they panicked and became more open, thanks to Arteta's naivety. We rightly won the game.
Now I don't even remember any clear cut chances that they created, maybe barring the odegaard chance and Saliba's which was also not a clear cut chance. In fact we had more opportunities to make it 4 or 5-1. The pressing from Ronaldo ehich caused Ramsdale to make a mistake was a moment Bruno should have taken advantage and scored the goal. Same Fred had a golden opportunity to pass it to ronaldo who was one on one but he misplaced the pass. The fact remains Arsenal dominated the ball in the second half but it was United who were in dangerous positions.
I am not saying Arsenal were crap that day but in fact they played decent but let us stop pretending this was a prime Barca performance or a City performance. It was a typical latter year wenger performance. And if I were an Arsenal fan, rather than making excuses, I would be disappointed to lose the game to a manager who is 6 game old when my own manager has done feck all in the premier league and has been in the job for close to 3 years now.
United dominated them in the first 15 minutes and then things became even before we scored a well worked team goal. I would say first half was even but with us scoring it was our half. Even possession wise it was 46 to 54 so nothing huge difference.
Second half they started well and just like us in the first half dominated for the first 15 minutes before they scored a well deserved goal, which to be honest they were fortunate with. After that they panicked and became more open, thanks to Arteta's naivety. We rightly won the game.
Now I don't even remember any clear cut chances that they created, maybe barring the odegaard chance and Saliba's which was also not a clear cut chance. In fact we had more opportunities to make it 4 or 5-1. The pressing from Ronaldo ehich caused Ramsdale to make a mistake was a moment Bruno should have taken advantage and scored the goal. Same Fred had a golden opportunity to pass it to ronaldo who was one on one but he misplaced the pass. The fact remains Arsenal dominated the ball in the second half but it was United who were in dangerous positions.
I am not saying Arsenal were crap that day but in fact they played decent but let us stop pretending this was a prime Barca performance or a City performance. It was a typical latter year wenger performance. And if I were an Arsenal fan, rather than making excuses, I would be disappointed to lose the game to a manager who is 6 game old when my own manager has done feck all in the premier league and has been in the job for close to 3 years now.
Roy Keane isn't from Scotland.
Still hurting from Sunday it seems.
Correct Pogue. Annoying me too.
Gooners bless
GoonerInASraightJacket
If Arsenal have a "serious" manager, what does your competition for top 4 in Chelsea and Spurs have? Chelsea and Spurs have managers who have won league titles, champions leagues, finished in the top 4, finished in the top 4 whilst simultaneously playing in Europe. Because ultimately it's these managers you'll need to out-compete to actually achieve anything.
Arsenal have a manager who's never managed before them, and who's greatest achievement to date is taking a team from 8th to 8th to 5th whilst having the advantage of no European football.
Arteta may prove to be a good manager at some point, but until he actually achieves something out of the ordinary I don't understand the plaudits.
In fairness, Arteta has managed a major trophy already,
That's something Tuchel couldn't do in his first few years as manager. Nor Conte for that matter, that took him a few years too.
So does Rodgers, and Harry Redknapp.
To be fair I forgot about the FA cup but the league performances over the course of years is a much better measure of what we're looking at in terms of the top 4 race.
Winning the fa Cup in the first few months is more comparable to De Matteo. And as pointed out the likes of Rodgers, Martinez, Laudrup, mcleish, Dalglish etc. have won domestic cups in recent memory.
One kick and chase moment
. Our goals were all perfectly executed team transitions, the first involved all 11 players. Yours was scrappy as feck and fell into Saka's lap from a deflection, which came about from a Varane miss hit pass.Yeah, that's true.
Although it took Tuchel a long time to win a league title, Conte took Bari up from serie B after three seasons as full manager.
Different scenarios of course, but I don't think many would say Arsenal were anywhere near winning the league when Arteta took over, they look a lot closer to doing so now, even if they are still miles away!
And they are/were pretty handy as managers too.
The arrogance of Arsenal fans here
Dude has spent close to 300 m+ in transfers and yet he hasn't got a CL place. You come to OT and play a high line and yet, the credit goes to Arteta for playing that way. That's some narrative. His naivety was exposed there.
Serious manager - my foot.
Dude has spent close to 300 m+ in transfers and yet he hasn't got a CL place. You come to OT and play a high line and yet, the credit goes to Arteta for playing that way. That's some narrative. His naivety was exposed there.
Serious manager - my foot.
Arteta is incredibly naive atm. He should have done better once Fred came on and their numerical advantage through the centre was being cut.
While playing Zinchenko so far inwards is ok at times but once numbers are not so loaded in their favour they are going to suffer like they did when teams exploit that space he leaves behind. For the second goal look at how Lokonga and Gabriel are dragged to the left to cover for him as Ronaldo occupies that space, allowing Bruno and Eriksen to find each other through the middle.
And then those subs were ridiculous moving to the back 3 at such an early stage and overloading the left with midfielders leaving the center again open for Eriksen.
Any decent team with players who can pick a pass will exploit such naivety.
While playing Zinchenko so far inwards is ok at times but once numbers are not so loaded in their favour they are going to suffer like they did when teams exploit that space he leaves behind. For the second goal look at how Lokonga and Gabriel are dragged to the left to cover for him as Ronaldo occupies that space, allowing Bruno and Eriksen to find each other through the middle.
And then those subs were ridiculous moving to the back 3 at such an early stage and overloading the left with midfielders leaving the center again open for Eriksen.
Any decent team with players who can pick a pass will exploit such naivety.
It’s becoming increasingly apparent you wouldn’t know a low block counter attacking game if it bit you on the arse.
Hint. You didn’t watch one on Sunday.
Ive just heard the Celtic manager being interviewed, and he was asked how his team would play tonight vs Real Madrid, and I found it interesting what he said.The arrogance of Arsenal fans here
Dude has spent close to 300 m+ in transfers and yet he hasn't got a CL place. You come to OT and play a high line and yet, the credit goes to Arteta for playing that way. That's some narrative. His naivety was exposed there.
Serious manager - my foot.
He said he won't change his beliefs and the way the team is set up to play attacking, front foot football. He said what's the point in believing in that way of playing if you don't stick to it. You always want to test out your philosophy against the better teams, as that's a true gauge of where you are as a team. Sitting back, playing a different negative way, that's not a true reflection of where you are.
And if it doesn't work out, then you go back, work on improving, and hope next time you play them you are a bit better.
Found that a rather interesting take.
Which isn't what Arteta did in the last 20mn.
That's not true. Our first goal was not a counter attack, it was the style Ten Hag is slowly integrating and teaching our squad, building play and attack leading to a beautiful goal that involved much of the team organized around how he likes to build phases of play.
It is also important to remember that we were on top for the first part of the match before Arsenal took control. Given our response after you equalised, i wonder if we were instructed to sit back and soak up pressure after taking the lead. I'd argue that the third goal didn't come against the run of play either because we had started countering very effectively, and your excellent dominance and pressure had subsided as you appeared a bit shellshocked/deflated after the second.
So 1 goal in 3 against the run of play i reckon.
If there was any proof that Arteta has successfully lowered expectations at your club, it's taking some inspiration from Celtic when playing Real Madrid.
It's not inspiration, it's an insight to certain managers thinking, and a point of view I hadn't really thought about.
I thought it was interesting enough on here to be discussed and get some views on it, but obviously we are still on slagging Arteta and Arsenal mode on the Caf, so keep going.