Lionel Messi is OFFICIALLY the Greatest Player of all Time (CONFIRMED OFFICIAL)

You have to almost feel sorry for the Ronaldo fanboys like @Cal? and @SportingCP96 who have spent so much time and energy in a debate that has got shredded in a matter of minutes.
 
VP said:
You have to almost feel sorry for the Ronaldo fanboys like @Cal? and @SportingCP96 who have spent so much time and energy in a debate that has got shredded in a matter of minutes.
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Tbf we don't know the debate has been shredded. Someone should re-open the Messi v Ronaldo poll so we can see. :angel:
 
Fantastic game and fitting end to his career. Messi was already one of the all time greats so now he has that monkey off his back.

I dont subscribe to the GOAT rubbish as football is too complex for such reductive junk.

What a journey though for messi. That was emotional to sew him lift it.
 
Invictus said:
It is, still. That's the nature of the beast, I suppose. The margins are soo fine and unquantifiable at the very top that you can have a preference for one or other while maintaining an air of reasonability. But someone who reckons Messi is the absolute greatest can now make exceptionally strong and objective arguments for practically every metric of greatness (maybe the strongest of all). Personally speaking, yes — he is the greatest and the best, by a slight but poignant margin. Just so complete in that he could score at a similar rate to Müller or Cristiano, dribble at a comparable level to Maradona or Best when they were on song, and slice open opposition defenses with an offensive passing range that rivaled the likes of Laudrup or Zico. No one else was as mindbogglingly good when you combine all three aspects of attacking play. When you consider that component with his legacy as the leading edge of one of the most fearsome and iconic teams of all time, personal and collective accomplishments (with this World Cup and the Golden Ball being the cherries on top), and staggering longevity (the wee fella has been the best or one of the very best for 15 years now), it's as close as you can get to an ironclad case. Then you have Mr. Pelé, the former “greatest footballer of all time” — the unsurpassed benchmark for half-a-century. Followed by Maradona, another “greatest footballer of all time” candidate and arguably the most profound talent in the history of the sport. And finally the duo of Beckenbauer and Di Stéfano to round off the subjective Top 5.

P.S. Cristiano is thereabouts too. Ditto Cruyff. Didn't mean to disparage him (or them). All of these were era-defining titans, no doubt about that — just ahead of Puskás, Platini, Baresi, Zico, Fenômeno, Xavi, Meazza, Best, Müller, Garrincha, Eusébio, van Basten, Zidane, Maldini, Charlton, Matthäus and other wonderful, wonderful masters of football.
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Great write-up.

So you've got Messi ahead of Pele now? I remember in the top 30 positional voting done on the cafe a few years ago, you had Pele ahead of Messi for the top 30 forwards.

I've always docked Messi a bit in the argument vs Pele/Maradona, because of the lack of great performances at the WC. I never needed Argentina to win the WC, but I wanted to see him drive a team forward at the World Cup with performances that galvanize an entire nation. And he finally did that. Hindsight is 20-20, but I'm pretty sure the majority of Argentinians were way more confident beating France today than they were vs Germany in 2014. I'm not going to attribute all of that entirely to Messi, but his role can't ignored either.

Still find it hard to pick 1 player as the best, but Messi objectively does have the best argument.
 
Hard to argue against now that he has had that World Cup apart from also being one of the best goalscorers of all time as well as one of the best playmakers of all time. Ronaldo is barely even in the same tier anymore, let alone greater.
 
Aside from the GOAT debate, it's just rare for a football career to have such neat narrative.
 
You can't call Messi the GOAT because of one match, when he didn't even score a great goal in the final. He wasn't even the best player in the match.

That being said be is the Greatest of all Time.
 
There's no argument for anybody bar Messi being the GOAT, and there wasn't before this world cup either. World cups are massively important for countries and players really want to win them, but the quality of a champions league is higher. This idea that you have to win the WC to be the GOAT is nonsense. That's my two cents
 
rcoobc said:
You can't call Messi the GOAT because of one match, when he didn't even score a great goal in the final. He wasn't even the best player in the match.

That being said be is the Greatest of all Time.
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Except he was the best player in the final? He scored two, played a lovely pass for another and created so much from the middle of the park - he pretty much had a good game for the entire 120 (probably excluding a stretch of 10-15 mind where ARG were stunned)

But yeah it's silly to base anything off one game.
 
tothetop96 said:
There's no argument for anybody bar Messi being the GOAT, and there wasn't before this world cup either. World cups are massively important for countries and players really want to win them, but the quality of a champions league is higher. This idea that you have to win the WC to be the GOAT is nonsense. That's my two cents
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Yep, it's definitely nonsense. Aside from anything else, it would mean a player would be precluded from being the greatest if they happened to be born in a weak enough country.

In this case winning the WC just means that one of the worst arguments against this particular player isn't a thing any more. If Argentina had lost that penalty shoot-out, Messi would still be the same player.
 
Always liked him, just don't like the dickriding contest everyone's itching to engage in when his name gets mentioned. People rightly make fun of Piers when it comes to Ronaldo - but Lineker has been as nauseating when speaking about Messi.
 
It's settled. I hope Ronaldo and his fanboys cry themselves to sleep tonight.
 
I know people say “he didn’t really need this if you know your football” and yes, that’s likely true, but he did kind of need it for the wider narrative, as it would always be something brought up, because these types of debates are boring and subjective and arbitrary a lot of the timeZ

The good thing is its now basically a completely clean, closed debate.
 
Invictus said:
It is, still. That's the nature of the beast, I suppose. The margins are soo fine and unquantifiable at the very top that you can have a preference for one or other while maintaining an air of reasonability. But someone who reckons Messi is the absolute greatest can now make exceptionally strong and objective arguments for practically every metric of greatness (maybe the strongest of all). Personally speaking, yes — he is the greatest and the best, by a slight but poignant margin. Just so complete in that he could score at a similar rate to Müller or Cristiano, dribble at a comparable level to Maradona or Best when they were on song, and slice open opposition defenses with an offensive passing range that rivaled the likes of Laudrup or Zico. No one else was as mindbogglingly good when you combine all three aspects of attacking play. When you consider that component with his legacy as the leading edge of one of the most fearsome and iconic teams of all time, personal and collective accomplishments (with this World Cup and the Golden Ball being the cherries on top), and staggering longevity (the wee fella has been the best or one of the very best for 15 years now), it's as close as you can get to an ironclad case. Then you have Mr. Pelé, the former “greatest footballer of all time” — the unsurpassed benchmark for half-a-century. Followed by Maradona, another “greatest footballer of all time” candidate and arguably the most profound talent in the history of the sport. And finally the duo of Beckenbauer and Di Stéfano to round off the subjective Top 5.

P.S. Cristiano is thereabouts too. Ditto Cruyff. Didn't mean to disparage him (or them). All of these were era-defining titans, no doubt about that — just ahead of Puskás, Platini, Baresi, Zico, Fenômeno, Xavi, Meazza, Best, Müller, Garrincha, Eusébio, van Basten, Zidane, Maldini, Charlton, Matthäus and other wonderful, wonderful masters of football.
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What about Pelé? Also perfect goalscorer., dribbler and playmaker rolled into one.
 
VP said:
You have to almost feel sorry for the Ronaldo fanboys like @Cal? and @SportingCP96 who have spent so much time and energy in a debate that has got shredded in a matter of minutes.
Click to expand...
It does help when VAR even gifts him offside goals.

But it is what it is, based on his achievements, he's GOAT, there I said it, happy?
 
He finally raised himself to the level of pele, maradona, bald ronaldo, ronaldinho, zidane and guivar’ch
 
Lord SInister said:
As @Invictus said, what makes him eligible for GOAT debate apart from his accomplishments are, are his talent as a player. He is arguably the greatest goal scorer, dribbler and playmaker of all time, all rolled into one.
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Add to that, he is one of the most decorated players ever, having won: 1 World Cup, 1 Continental Cup, 4 UCLs, 11 league titles (will be 12 in a few months), 7 National Cups, 7 Ballon D'Ors, 2 World Cup Golden Balls, 6 European Golden Shoes. He is the highest assist maker in the history of football and the third top scorer (with less than 30 goals than the top one so has a chance of finishing first).

With all respect to Maradona and Pele, Messi is on another level to them.

For me it is:

Tier GOAT: Messi
Tier 1: Pele, Maradona
Tier 2: Cristiano (could be argued to be in Tier 1), Di Stefano, Cruyff
Tier 3: Beckenbauer, Platini, Best, Puskas, Ronaldo
Tier 4: Zidane, Eusebio, Charlton, Van Basten, Muller and a few others.

With regards to Messi vs Maradona, Messi is essentially Maradona, but with 3 times as many goals, more assists, and a dozen more top-tier trophies.
 
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It'll now be Pele, Maradona and Messi mentioned for years to come. The world cup seals that, Ronaldo fell short. Witnessing a 'Maradona' in Messi in my generation is something I will cherish. GOAT
 
Cal? said:
It does help when VAR even gifts him offside goals.

But it is what it is, based on his achievements, he's GOAT, there I said it, happy?
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What offside goals? They had like 4 offside goals disallowed in a row vs Saudi Arabia
 
Cal? said:
I'm never going to watch this match or any highlights of it ever, I thought his tap-in was offside, but frankly don't care.
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No need to think that anymore, it wasn't offside.
 
Messi lasting memory will be him lifting the world cup for his country.

Ronaldo lasting memory will be him bitching to Piers fecking Morgan :lol:
 
Cal? said:
I'm never going to watch this match or any highlights of it ever, I thought his tap-in was offside, but frankly don't care.
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Nopes in our screen they showed it clearly in animation. It clearly wasnt.
 
GOAT. No point even discussing this anymore. His club career was already the best that there has ever been in terms of club trophies won, individual honours, personal records, goalscoring (most goals scored for 1 single club in football history), most recorded assists, his insane individual brilliance, unmatched top level stats wise, insane 1.5 decade longevity etc. Nobody has the full package in this regard.

Only thing that was lacking was international achievements for Argentina. An Argentina that until the Copa América win in 2021 had to wait 28 years (1993) to win a single official trophy again.

So Messi has a World Cup win with Argentina, World Cup 2014 silver medal, record 98 goals for Argentina (nobody is even close to him), record amount of World Cup and Copa América goals combined, most goals in both tournaments of all in Argentina's history, 13 FIFA World Cup goals (the record goal scorer Klose has just 3 more goals), record amount of World Cup matches played in history (26), 2 best World Cup player of the tournament awards (2014, 2022), most assists in the World Cup, most assists in the knockout stages in the World Cup, only player to score in the Group Stage, Round 16, Quarterfinals, Semifinals and Final in a single World Cup (while winning it too), winning arguably the most insane World Cup final in history, Copa América 2021 win, 2022 Finalissima win against Italy, Olympic Gold Medal in 2008, 2005 FIFA World Youth Championship win, several times player of the tournament in numerous Copa América tournaments, 6 finals reached (World Cup + Copa América) in total etc.

I probably forgot a lot more.

End of debate and great to see C. Ronaldo and RM fanboys crying online.:lol:



Special mention to @SportingCP96 :lol: Commiserations.
 
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