Club Sale | It’s done!

[TMDaines]

Some of the biggest headscratchers are those insisting that the Qatari bid is the best because it means being debt-free. Debt in itself isn’t a bad thing.

You want us to pay for all our transfers in one lump upfront sum going forward?

 

[Plant0x84]

Sheik Jassim has nothing to do with the state though. Can you tell me what role he serves in the governance or state of Qatar?

Sigh.
You are WUMming me aren’t you?

 

[syrian_scholes]

I think the Glazers are staying, they been putting out attempted positive PR for three days now…

Yeah it's looking more likely at the moment, would be the absolute worst case scenario imo.

 

[united_99]

I have changed my mind after reading all the mental gymnastics overdose on the Caf.
Until I don‘t see in our crest „Manchester United - State-Owned“ absolutely nothing and no one can convince me we will be state owned!
That will help me sleep at night. So happy right now. Happy New Year All!

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Another suggesting the Glazers could stay. It’s starting to worry me

 

[Solius]

Sheik Jassim has nothing to do with the state though. Can you tell me what role he serves in the governance or state of Qatar?

I have a bridge for sale if you're interested.

 

[romufc]

Sigh.
You are WUMming me aren’t you?

His dad was, just because he is a sheik means he ha access to all the money? Are you trying to say all 3000 members of the royal family have access to the money?

I love how if its "sponsored" its fine, yet if a Qatari national comes in, its tainted money

P.S so you would be fine if Qatar sponsored a UK national to buy the club, because it would be a sponsor?

 

[cyberman]

Some of the biggest headscratchers are those insisting that the Qatari bid is the best because it means being debt-free. Debt in itself isn’t a bad thing.

You want us to pay for all our transfers in one lump upfront sum going forward?

I'm not sure. There's plenty like me, who would struggle to care too much about how much profit the owners make provided the club is still successful on the field. The problem with the Glazers is the debt with which they burdened the club has hamstrung our ability to compete at the very top and position ourselves as the best club in the world. That's the real issue for many, and not one that isn't often articulated.

Can’t rewrite history. Debt has been a massive issue for Utd fans going on 20 years now

 

[simonhch]

Don't you think it would be an issue for INEOS to keep asking billions of pounds for something with a minimum ROI?

To keep asking? Why would they keep asking? Beyond the initial investment requirements for the purchase and any infrastructure investment, why would they need to raise further debt?

And it is hard to project the ROI on this project. We don’t know what revenue projections have been put on this over the next 10-15 years. A lot of industry insight suggests that there is huge untapped potential in overseas markets, especially in mobile streaming rights, so what we see as an asset that has close to exhausted its growth potential, may well be seen as investors as an asset which has barely begun to explore its untapped potential.

The ROI on this project is unlikely to be measured in the payback period or annual ROI, it’ll likely be on long term asset value growth with an eventual exit strategy in mind. I would also anticipate that it’ll incorporate substantial real estate development as part of that valuation projection. An upside that could be substantial.

Without seeing the 3, 5, and 10 year pro formas and the business plan, I’m really just speculating. A safe assumption is that any for profit investment group buying the club, will have identified substantial revenue growth potential, new revenue streams, have the inside track on any expected disruptive changes to the market (such as a breakaway league), and factored in the substantial infrastructure investment required (and its potential upside).

Football clubs are typically valued at a much higher multiple of EBITDA than most other industries, which does suggest that there are more factors than just ROI which go into the consideration of asset value. But I think it would be naive to suggest that anyone investing close to 6bn in an asset, won’t be acutely aware of the market conditions and realities, growth potential, and won’t have utilised substantial industry expertise and data to determine the feasibility of the investment.

People use the parallel of the Glazer’s original LBO as a standard bearer for the evil of investment groups, but we are talking about relatively paltry sums compared to what it being discussed today.

Of course this will all likely be moot anyway, when the club is bought by a state backed sports washing machine.

 

[red thru&thru]

I dont like Terry normally but this is absolutely spot on.

Yeah, same. If you're so against Qatar, I'm guessing you have to follow it through all the way.

 

[Brownie85]

Another suggesting the Glazers could stay. It’s starting to worry me

I'm guessing that down the presence of Elliott, if they weren't around, i'm betting it wouldn't cross their minds that the Glazers could stay.
I think that they'll sell, but they'll milk the buyer for as much as they can

 

[sglowrider]

Two guys with a minority share isn’t going to stop Ratcliffe from running his own company the way he sees fit. If he says ‘lads, we’re buying United’ they will say “ok boss, no problem!!”

You think that's how partners work? What next? Nepotism?


Oh wait...

 

[Cloud7]

To this day it still makes me chuckle when I see 'Glazers' spelt as 'Glaziers'

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

Another suggesting the Glazers could stay. It’s starting to worry me

Yep, definitely becoming a bit of a concern especially after the news about the planned ticket increase and Joel throwing his 2 cents in on how he thinks the stadium should be redeveloped. All pointing towards them potentially backtracking, which is very worrying to say the least.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Sheik Jassim has nothing to do with the state though. Can you tell me what role he serves in the governance or state of Qatar?

He has a personal wealth of 1.2bn. He is nowhere near rich enough to spend 5bn on a football club. The money is coming from the royal family.

 

[RedPed]

His dad was, just because he is a sheik means he ha access to all the money? Are you trying to say all 3000 members of the royal family have access to the money?

I love how if its "sponsored" its fine, yet if a Qatari national comes in, its tainted money

Anybody from Qatar with a few quid means that they represent the state of Qatar. It's such dumb logic. And do people really think that anybody is going to view Qatar more positively just because a Qatari person owns Manchester United?

 

[Tom Van Persie]

To this day it still makes me chuckle when I see 'Glazers' spelt as 'Glaziers'

I can't help but read it in Andy Tate's voice.

 

[Giggsyking]

I called you Sherlock Holmes because of course it’s only representative of Scandinavia man. It’s a Scandinavian poll, polling Scandinavian fans.
Better stay in Scandyland and far far away from the UK and Ireland if you’re that bad at detecting sarcasm when someone even calls you Mr. Holmes

It is difficult to detect sarcasm in this thread. I thought you were serious going by your posts in this thread being all serious.

 

[Compton22]

The Glazers have not got the amount for the club they want so far, hence now briefings are coming out that they might want to stay after all to force bidders to increase the amount they'll end up paying for the club.

Simple. Panic over.

 

[BarstoolProphet]

Not sure I’ve actually commented on Qatar all that much, most of my posts are INEOS and the inaccuracies that surround them. Can you provide an example?

I haven't followed your post before, just noticed your posts the last few pages regarding Qatar's Royal Family where you seem to have no trouble dishing out one-liners and posts containing only emojies but would get up in arms about someone questioning INEOS bid - even respond with memes to emphasise your point.

As for examples:

Title of Sheikh = State-owned - " Does his title ‘sheik’ not tell you anything?" in response someone saying the bid might not be state-funded
State-backed = State-owned - " And they are all related… to the ruling family. State backed. "
Those that question INEOS and SJR bid = pro-oil money

You very well could be right that it's 100% state-owned (I have previously commented on the links) just find it odd that you are so focused on accuracies when it comes to INEOS but at the same time are taking a lazy approach to the other option.

 

[TakeMeHome]

Have a horrible feeling the glazers will stay. As soon as the ST renewal deadline is up, they'll announce it then.

 

[TrebleChamp99]

He has a personal wealth of 1.2bn. He is nowhere near rich enough to spend 5bn on a football club. The money is coming from the royal family.

From his dad, who was amicably removed from most of his posts as an active member of the set up, im sure they can tap into the families wider wealth if needed.

 

[sglowrider]

Another way to look at it is that the new group may have asked them to do it now, to take the flak for it as they are leaving anyway. That way the new owners can come in and freeze prices at a higher level and not take any heat for raising them. The other option is that they asked the outbound Glazers to raise them, so they can come in and immediately reduce them to win some points with fans. I don’t see the Glazers having any problems doing this if it was part of negotiating the sale price they wanted.

If anything I think this raise in prices shows they are leaving rather than staying. People are just looking for reasons to fear longer at this point.

I would have thought that considering the bidders are at the 'data room' phase of the bidding process ie deep diving into the financials, this timely 5% uplift of the tickets sales would make the projected numbers look rosier.

 

[glazed]

Sheik Jassim has nothing to do with the state though. Can you tell me what role he serves in the governance or state of Qatar?

I hear Sheikh Jassim made his billions day trading bitcoins. He's really good at maths

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Yep, definitely becoming a bit of a concern especially after the news about the planned ticket increase and Joel throwing his 2 cents in on how he thinks the stadium should be redeveloped. All pointing towards them potentially backtracking, which is very worrying to say the least.

If they did do a u-turn, I can only hope the protests go to Super League levels, getting games cancelled etc, in order to force a rethink

 

[romufc]

I hear Sheikh Jassim made his billions day trading bitcoins. He's really good at maths

Well done, thats good on you then. Keep listening.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Another suggesting the Glazers could stay. It’s starting to worry me

Sheikh Jassim and Ratcliffe are the only two parties to have publicly declared their hand. Several US hedge funds have also expressed an interest in providing financing for potential suitors before the soft first deadline for bidders passed last Friday.

Bidders are now waiting for more details from Raine Group, the merchant bank running the process on behalf of the Glazers, on the next stage of the process. “The ball is very much in the court of the Glazers and Raine now,” one source said.

There is still said to be some uncertainty over whether the Glazers will cash in on the club amid apparent splits in opinion among the six siblings.

Joel Glazer, the co-chairman who is said to have the strongest connection to the club of the family, is thought to harbour some reservations about a full sale.

Joel - and his brother and fellow co-chairman Avram - are known to have explored financing options last summer as they considered buying out their four siblings. The Glazers never committed themselves solely to a full sale after announcing their “strategic review” of the club last November.

But the backlash from fans - many of whom have now convinced themselves the end of Glazer rule is nigh after 18 turbulent years - could be huge if the Americans opted to rebuff offers or were only willing to sell a minority stake.

Several prominent supporter groups believe it has reached the point of no return and that such a situation would be “untenable” for the Glazers.

There are also serious doubts around how the owners would fund a new stadium and training ground without substantial external investment and how a third party taking a minority stake would work in reality given the club’s complicated share structure and the potential repetitional issues of being seen to be in bed with the Glazers, who have been the subject of widespread protests and supporter anger for so long.

 

[Dazzmondo]

This is getting pathetic now. So the rich of America don’t get subsidies and tax breaks?

I had muted Miguel from 5 years ago because of the amount of transfer predications he got horribly wrong! How did he become the chief writer for independent?!

Whether or not you believe this bid is private or driven by the state, that comment about it not being possible for an individual of Qatar to be wealthy by their own volition is extremely racist. Very concerning that a journalist is spreading these sort of hateful comments about the people of an entire country. Pretty shocked tbh.

EDIT: Just to clarify in case there's any confusion, it's not a matter of whether or not the journalist is right in this specific case about the prospective bidder potentially being linked to the state, in fact I similarly believe this is a Qatari state bid disguised as a private investment. However, the sweeping comment about it being impossible for anyone from a single country to become wealthy without the full backing of the state is not acceptable, at least no more than private businessmen in the UK or US might similarly benefit from their own governments. If people think comments like that are ok they really need to have a long hard look at themselves.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

It is difficult to detect sarcasm in this thread. I thought you were serious going by your posts in this thread being all serious.

You think I’m serious, in reality I’m sat behind an iphone

You’re probably one of those who thinks Zlatan is serious every time he talks too. Most things I post here I do with a glint in my eye.

Seriously, though, if you can’t detect sarcasm in that post, joking that the Scandinavian poll only represents Scandinavians and calling you Sherlock Holmes, you need to check just how serious you are and chill the feck out

 

[romufc]

He has a personal wealth of 1.2bn. He is nowhere near rich enough to spend 5bn on a football club. The money is coming from the royal family.

Again, I will repeat myself, people say State funded is okay as long as its not state owned.

This will be private individual with state funding. I agree that some money will come from the royal family.

There is a difference between ownership and funding. I hope people distinguish that.

 

[Cloud7]

I can't help but read it in Andy Tate's voice.

Now there's a name I haven't heard in a while. That rant is an important part of the fabric of the club we wove in the last decade

 

[TrebleChamp99]

Whether or not you believe this bid is private or driven by the state, that comment about it not being possible for an individual of Qatar to be wealthy by their own volition is extremely racist. Very concerning that a journalist is spreading these sort of hateful comments about the people of an entire country. Pretty shocked tbh.

Dont worry, once his overseers get wind hell be knocked down a peg or two. Also if the Qataris get in , then hell be first on the blacklist.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Whether or not you believe this bid is private or driven by the state, that comment about it not being possible for an individual of Qatar to be wealthy by their own volition is extremely racist. Very concerning that a journalist is spreading these sort of hateful comments about the people of an entire country. Pretty shocked tbh.

You’re kidding right?

 

[glazed]

If they did do a u-turn, I can only hope the protests go to Super League levels, getting games cancelled etc, in order to force a rethink

They're not staying. They're just trying to bid up the price a bit more. They only care about money and without big investment in their asset which they have no ability or willingness to make, the club won't be worth anything like 5 billion in five years time. Throw in the rise in interest rates and the failure of superleage and they're 100% out.

 

[simonhch]

I would have thought that considering the bidders are at the 'data room' phase of the bidding process ie deep diving into the financias, this timely 5% uplift of the tickets sales would make the projected numbers look rosier.

Possible. But you can do that on a spreadsheet to show buyers how much extra gravy they can get. You can use multiple different data points to show prices at various increases. Actually doing it at this point only serves a purpose if there are political considerations being made during negotiations. It’s probably down to optics of the new owners. The Glazers aren’t going to raise prices by 5% and all the buyers will suddenly say “wow, that’s amazing”. They’ll already know how much more they can potentially make by jacking up prices. But they probably don’t want to do it as their first impression to a rabid fan base. Better to get the outgoing bogeyman to do it for you. In return the Glazers will have secured some consideration in the sale price or whatever.

 

[Mickeza]

To this day it still makes me chuckle when I see 'Glazers' spelt as 'Glaziers'

What about Glazers?

 

[FreakyJim]

I see an alarming amount of "Glazers" followed by the word "stay". Stop it.

 

[romufc]

Anybody from Qatar with a few quid means that they represent the state of Qatar. It's such dumb logic. And do people really think that anybody is going to view Qatar more positively just because a Qatari person owns Manchester United?

Yep. also, apparently in Qatar you are not allowed to own property, businesses, shares or even take a wage because it belongs to the state.

Its a funny way, because he runs a bank that has state ownership, all money comes from a state and that isn't allowed.

The same people, if the UK/US state funded INEOS, we would have a problem.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/... Government funding,the outcomes of that work.

I guess those people have no idea what INEOS do.

 

[Sunny Jim]

I think the Glazers are staying, they been putting out attempted positive PR for three days now…

I'm afraid our recent good form may in fact give them second thoughts about selling.
Suddenly CL money and new sponsors are genuine possibility.

 

[stevoc]

Another suggesting the Glazers could stay. It’s starting to worry me

So he's 100% convinced his proposed takeover won't fall foul of rules barring a person/entity owning more than one club. Strange that it's even a consideration if he's just a private individual.