I don't think there is such a thing as the best manager ever. There's too many different ways to be a great manager.
Where does Ancelotti rank among all time great managers?
- Thread starter sullydnl
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He did pick mostly best teams in their domestic leagues at the moment to manage, and I am sure his domestic league record isn't the best(altough winning it in 5 different leagues is great argument), but he is definitely among the best ever.
I would say so far easily better than Mourinho and Pep, altough they have time on their side to surpass him tbf.
Based on CL wins, Carlo > Zidane > SAF
He is phenomenal and I think, somewhat overlooked. To go back and win ANOTHER UCL with Madrid is amazing.
No chance. Zidane has 3 CLs and isn’t in the conversation. Dropping into clubs with fantastic resources is a skill in itself, but rebuilding winning sides and continuing success when you don’t always have the guarantee of quality and resources is much more impressive.
Zidane.. undoubtedly his achievements at Madrid are impressive but I would only consider him top tier if he went to a shambolic club like PSG and made them a serious threat/CL winners. His Madrid team was seriously strong but I don’t really see what he added to take it to the next level, like a Mourinho elevating Chelsea and Inter or Pep elevating Barcelona and City. Until he shows that he is living off the achievements of his team in my opinion.
He did not pick the best teams, the best teams picked him. It is a huge difference. And the best teams picked him because he has a history of winning.
For example, if Poch had won the CL, then Real would want him as manager, but he didn't. Every manager wants to manage Real but...
Worth noting that Ancelotti did turn milan back into winners. They'd been free-falling before hiring him. In his first full season he won the CL and from there they went to 3 CL finals in 5 years, winning 2. After that of course he'd only move to other top sides.
Zidane did far more with Real than Pep did with City, it's not even comparable.
This. People forget about how Milan were struggling a bit at the time. Had not won the league for 2 years finishing 3rd and 6th. He came and played the diamond, changed Pirlo from a CAM to one of the best deep lying midfield playmakers of all time, and took the team to 4th, and won the Champions League the following season, and the Scudetto after that.
Then had to adapt again when Shevchenko left in 2006/7, and played the Christmas tree formation 4-3-2-1 and won the Champions League again in 2007.
Went to Chelsea, won the Premier League and FA Cup in his first season, >100 goals in a season for the first time ever in the Premier League. In a league with legendary managers like SAF. Chelsea's first domestic double as well.
I would put him on par with Sir Alex. If he had taken over immediately after SAF left, we would have still been challenging for the title the following couple of seasons I think.
Another CL final. He is up there with the best no doubt.
Ferguson and Ancelotti stand head and shoulders above the rest.
Just seems to understand football better than the managers he plays, simple as that. He knows how to win.
It’s weird how people don’t rate him tactically, this Real setup I’m not sure has even been seen before with basically no striker but also with no false 9. Bellingham’s role is one of graft but it does work for them.
It’s weird how people don’t rate him tactically, this Real setup I’m not sure has even been seen before with basically no striker but also with no false 9. Bellingham’s role is one of graft but it does work for them.
nah, that was Carletto Mazzone
It is refreshing to watch "normal" guy on the bench. No jumping, screaming and clowning during the game like Klopp, Arteta, Pep etc....
He calmly says what he needs to say and that is it. When they score, he stays calm.
He is a top guy.
He calmly says what he needs to say and that is it. When they score, he stays calm.
He is a top guy.
Clowning?
Probably the best tactician I've ever seen. Just look at the different set ups he's been successful with:
Diamond at AC Milan - got 2 CL titles, another final they should've won.
Chelsea team that won the double - somehow turned the boring 70 league goals a season defensive juggernaut into breaking the then PL goalscoring record. Converted Ballack into a CDM to make that team work.
2014 Madrid - faltered for 3 seasons rightat the end under Mourinho. Creatively turned ADM into a LCM, and that seemed to give them something more to finally take them over the line. The year after he then lost Di Maria and made a 4-4-2 with Modric, Kroos, Isco & Rodriguez work for a large part of that season.
2022 Madrid - last hurrah out of their legendary midfield 3, and got more out of Benzema than any of his managers in the past to get them another CL.
2024 - probably his most impressive change. Somehow dealt with losing his best player and only viable striker, by turning Bellingham into a false 9 (a position he'd never played before).
He just somehow finds something that everyone misses. His use of his players and squads is very creative. He must be one of the sharpest managers of all time. On top of that his man management is top level and transcendent between eras (none of the Mourinho excuse of how modern players are too soft for him).
Diamond at AC Milan - got 2 CL titles, another final they should've won.
Chelsea team that won the double - somehow turned the boring 70 league goals a season defensive juggernaut into breaking the then PL goalscoring record. Converted Ballack into a CDM to make that team work.
2014 Madrid - faltered for 3 seasons rightat the end under Mourinho. Creatively turned ADM into a LCM, and that seemed to give them something more to finally take them over the line. The year after he then lost Di Maria and made a 4-4-2 with Modric, Kroos, Isco & Rodriguez work for a large part of that season.
2022 Madrid - last hurrah out of their legendary midfield 3, and got more out of Benzema than any of his managers in the past to get them another CL.
2024 - probably his most impressive change. Somehow dealt with losing his best player and only viable striker, by turning Bellingham into a false 9 (a position he'd never played before).
He just somehow finds something that everyone misses. His use of his players and squads is very creative. He must be one of the sharpest managers of all time. On top of that his man management is top level and transcendent between eras (none of the Mourinho excuse of how modern players are too soft for him).
Yeah. Stuff what Klopp, Pep or Simeone do. It is like watching clowns doing their act.Clowning?
This - he's an excellent tactician, but because he's not some quirky visionary hipster manager, people assume he's not a tactics guy and is all about "vibes". Similar to how a lot of people viewed SAF, actually.
He's a tactician in the traditional sense - almost like an engineer, who inherits a machine and fine tunes it to get the most out of it.
A lot of modern managers almost seem to think of themselves are architects who are there to build a piece of art from scratch - which usually involves wasting a lot of money if/when it doesn't work out.
That's nonsense obviously
Maybe there's room to admire approaches of different managers? Animated on the pitch... Smoking a cigar... There's room for all
Strange things in football: between 2019 and 2021 he was managing Everton.
Yes I agree. He’s calmness personified and looks cool as feck with it
It's an interesting comparison between how well he does with this competition with his laid back approach while Pep underperforms while going mental.
It is clowning. They constantly get yellows and scream louder than fans in the background. It's no different to the players that go down and roll around on the floor for about 2,000 degreesClowning?
This sums it up perfectly. I find it highly amusing that SAF isn't viewed as a top tactician. He is more of a taction then Pep ever will be. Pep can only play one way, with the best players. Can't deviate from that. It's plan a and thats it.
I wish Carlo was our Manger from the time SAF left. Things would have been so diffrent. The guy is world class. Top top manager and highly under rated.
His son could be a top manager one day.
Ancelotti has underperformed (massively) with the rest of them (SAF, Lippi, Pep, etc) in this competition
Deportivo (other managers would never live this down)
Istanbul (ditto, how is he not a bottler by CAF standards??)
United in 2011 (our weakest squad to make the final)
City last year (a narrow loss would have been understandable, but the shellacking at the Etihad...)
Other losses (Barcelona 06, Inter 10) were tighter but other managers don't get the grace and understanding he does despite those losses
While managing squads like prime Milan, Chelsea, and Madrid
This is a segway to the response to why you quoted me: his hands off, nonchalant approach works when his players are able to overcome whatever obstacles they face on the pitch. When they are flummoxed, his ability to make adjustments are limited. We saw this last year with City (and he made it through City this year and the year before on the tightest of margins) and obviously his cool demeanor did little at the Riazor and at Istanbul as his teams looked clueless. They probably would have appreciated a manic on the sidelines, or someone who could make adjustments in real time.
He is the GOAT, world class version of Fernando Diniz (relational football and all that). Better suited to knockout football, but with the converse that he has a relatively shit record at the domestic level relative to other candidates for the GOAT title. But since only the CL matters, Don Carlo > Zidane > SAF* > Pep > Mo > Klopp
*Counting his CWC with Aberdeen and the CL that was stolen from him in 2004
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5th Champions League would be amazing. He's won 6-7 domestic leagues so almost as many CLs.
Still mad to think how and why he ended up managing Everton.
Is it? He was literally sacked 3 times in a row before he ended up there.
Getting sacked by big/ambitious clubs doesn’t take that kind of toll on your career when you are in his tier…. He would have had better offers, had he waited for them…
Tuchel is getting sacked for the third time in a row (inside 3 years) and he will certainly not end up at Everton…
Chelsea: eh, Roman is a nutter
Madrid: turns out, Perez is a bigger nutter
Bayern: probably deserved. The Bayern players were disgusted at how lackadaisical the training sessions were. Probably just vibes and inshallah
It's difficult to win the champions league no matter what. You could argue SAF, Klopp and Pep have underperformed in it if you apply the same standards to them.
I agree his league record is bad. I'm not sure why.
He got sacked by Madrid went to Bayern got sacked there and waited a year but the best option he had on the table the following summer was Napoli and he eventually got sacked there and he than grabbed Everton offer and was there for abit even Madrid second stint was him offering himself to Madrid he wasn't even in their radar at the time. He definitely had taken a toll and didn't have huge offers on the table.
Agreed. All (except Zidane) have
I do think that the same way his style of play is more suited to knockout football, is less suited to league football, which rewards football that is less improvisational and more systemic. He's had a few years where he went up against great teams and some cheating, but otherwise his style is not the kind that will get players geared up for a random away game at West Ham or Real Heros.
Ancelotti at Madrid just seems to work.
Not sure he’s the best or most tactically gifted coach, but based on results he’s among the best ever.
Not sure he’s the best or most tactically gifted coach, but based on results he’s among the best ever.
Eh. They were defending champions, were dominating the league and frankly looked like the best team in the world. It was a disaster, and an all time great performance by Depor, but it was an accident. As shown by the fact that they made the final again the following season in -->
This nearly broke him. And milan in general. He wanted to quit. Galliani spent that summer putting the pieces back together and convincing Ancelotti and like half the squad not to leave/retire(Gattuso wanted to retire)
Undermined by Roman messing with his staff earlier in the season which had the entirely predictable effect of deligitimizing him in the eyes of the squad, leading to the limp dick effect. Most recently seen at City with Pellegrini. I mean, Chelsea weren't very good that season.
One of the best teams of all time playing probably the best game I've seen in my life. Such is life
Tight, narrow losses with major refereeing mistakes against them
Untrue, as demonstrated by the fact you can pick the games were he failed to make good adjustments, in a career spanning 2 decades spent at the top of the sport. He's no Zidane but he's pretty good at this
They didn't though. Liverpool scored 3 goals in 5 minutes. There was no time to react. It's not even like they were struggling before hand, or that Liverpool were putting real pressure on them for those 5 minutes either. Literally just 3 attacks that resulted in goals. One of which shouldn't have stood either
We threw a lot of money at him.
As an ex Everton manager he's done really well for himself.
Has anyone mentioned he managed Everton yet?