Must have been an entirely different group of people with shockingly similar names that announced that round two bids had gone in when they hadn't.
That alone should be reason enough not to assume that any info they have is bullet proof.
Club Sale | It’s done!
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That alone should be reason enough not to assume that any info they have is bullet proof.
Are you being deliberately argumentative or just not understanding me?
It was obvious the Qataris wanted the club outright. Full stop.
We do not know if the Qataris have paid the number the Glazers want. Full stop.
It is entirely possible, Ratcliffe (if the talk about INEOS taking the lead is to be believed) has structured a deal to make the Glazers do business. This was my only speculation which you then leapt on.
I mean, bloody hell, mate, we’re all just speculating here.…
I don't mean to be argumentative no. I apologize if it comes across that way.
I just don't think that is a possibility at this stage. The way that Qatar does business I don't believe for a second they have come this far without assurances that the Glazers want to sell outright. They value reputation massively and getting embarrassed in that manner would really not be something they would be involved in.
At the end of the day until things are confirmed by the club or whoever whatever we say, read, or hear is speculation. I understand that.
To be fair, you don't actually know anything about the Glazers or how they do business. You're just trying to give yourself hope.
What the other poster is saying makes sense and is something that aligns with reports/rumours that have been going on for a while, ie 2 of the Glazers want to remain. INEOS came up with a big that actually could make that happen.
Unless you think these stories were bogus, and that these hedge fund minority stake offers were bogus too? For me there has to be some truth in these stories because they all align with these reports of SJR offering for Joel and Avram to remain. There's just too much smoke for me to believe that they definitely all want to sell. I think for that to happen they wanted more than has been offered, which was also reported before the offers were even made originally. Didn't they want £6b+ according to original reports?
Of course not, it's an educated guess based on many things. I'm not trying to give myself hope. I have made it clear that I think the club will move forward if either SJ or JR buy us.
Minority investment is currently not viable no.
Apology accepted, mate and I offer mine in return for being thin-skinned!
Yup, we’ll have to see how it pans out, but the Qataris did try to buy United in 2011 and weren’t successful because they would not match the Glazer’s asking price. History might repeat itself.
Possible.
British man bidding against Qatar. Surely no coincidence that the British media all seem to be saying positive things/putting out a positive spin about his bid about him.
We know how racist the British media can be. They report what they get told to report.
They would be more favoured if there had been more transparency on debt clearance and investment in stadium & training facilities. Then again perhaps they can't say any more unless successful due to the NDA signed
I’ve seen some folk on here say they don’t think INEOS ownership would be any better than the Glazers. Surely Ratcliffe’s comments about investing in United to make them the number one club in the world again is encouraging? The veiled digs at “Foreign” ownership are dodge, but he’s got to be better than the Glazers, right?
Right?
Right?
Why is minority investment not viable? The media are convinced it is a consideration, though less favourable. And that's my point, that tells you there may be some truth to 2 of the Glazers wanting to remain (unless the money was right).
The media are guessing
There are no viable offers on the table for a minority investment.
I think a lot of fans would be placated if he went on a Boehly player splurge and bought Ten Hag’s main targets, TBH. The stadium and the facilities must happen, but I think a lot of folk can be silenced if the former took place.
I got the feeling with SJR that he was being quite diplomatic also, in that he didn't want to offend the people he's trying to buy the club from. This would be especially true when you consider he might have a couple remain in place on order to purchase the club.
Source?
That there are no viable offers from Hedge Funds, or the like, for a minority investment. I must have missed that part, because the last I heard there were offers and the Glazers didn't give them a deadline. Which implies they want to keep that option open.
Becasue there aren't any obviously
The named options are both out.
Carlyle and Elliott.
Carlyle have a lot of business with Qatar so wouldn't cause any friction there and Elliott are under investigation for fraud due the their ties with AC MIlan.
I think Ratcliffe would be a much better owner than the Glazers.
How can Ratcliffe with the leeches take the club in a better direction,also got doubts their shares will be downgraded either
It's not my favored option
I agree there are major doubts in some regards. Until they are cleared up I will share them.
No chance. It’s an option for Qatar, because they don’t have the abysmal reputation the Glazers do. Even with the circus in Paris. Maybe they could have if they’d done it immediately after Fergie left, but they’d have never made that move which is a huge part of our
Yeah and that’s just what’s on the books. Whether you rate Pep’s City sides or not and whether you think their achievements matter or not there is no getting away from the fact that they just bought it all in a way no team had ever done before. Uniteds own colossal wasted spending is not a justification, it’s purely whataboutism.
There's nothing obvious about it (to us on the outside who know next to nothing about the situation). Journalists are saying there were offers, so I'll trust them. I don't know if Carlyle or Elliott are out, I've not heard that, but the way you are phrasing it makes it sound more like an assumption on your part.Becasue there aren't any obviously
The named options are both out.
Carlyle and Elliott.
Carlyle have a lot of business with Qatar so wouldn't cause any friction there and Elliott are under investigation for fraud due the their ties with AC MIlan.
Total speculation on my part: the Glazers are using INEOS the way some players used Manchester United come contract renewal time. They want the Qataris to cough up a few extra bucks for the club and the leaks about doing a deal with INEOS is the way to do it. As Captain Kirk would say, “The Ramos Manoeuvre.”
Or summat like that…
Or summat like that…
Do your research then. I have.
You will find that neither Carlyle or Elliott are currently an option.
Kind of weird to question one man's politics when the other party is the state of Qatar, famously known for their... Human rights. Also, they run PSG like a shit show.
The 2 biggest problems with United's debt is that it is United's neck on the line with it, and then United actually having to pay it. The debt being on Ineos' name sorts both out. Money doesn't have to go out of the club to pay it, because well that wouldn't make any business sense from their side. We are an asset. It is in their best interest to just run us properly so we appreciate in value over time, not to take some minor profits year to year.
My "fears" with Ineos/SJR apply to any owner ever - you don't know if they will make competent decisions, higher competent people. You can higher all the right people in football and things still go wrong sometimes. It's not easy, and a lot comes down to luck in the end, and especially the players ultimately just performing, the coach making good decisions, etc. They are wealthy enough to be the owners we need, United brings in enough money to be self sufficient, all they need to do is get things up to par after they've been neglected under the Glazers, and higher competent people and then stay ahead of the game in things behind the scenes. There is no way to know if an owner will be able to do any of that well or not, no matter how much money they have.
I can tell you for damn sure that I don't want to win by unlocking infinite money cheat, I don't want to buy success (it'll feel much less satisfying in the first place), I don't want to be the plaything of some oil rich billionaire or a political tool for some middle east and UK politics, I don't want United to represent the state of Qatar and all their archaic policies... Of course I'll still support United if they take over, but the success won't feel earned, and it'll be a little shame thing in the back of my mind while they are here ultimately.
I wonder if part of any deal would involve INEOS having first dibs on the shares the Glazers retain? Presumably those shares would become more valuable down the road, allowing the Glazers to cash in once again, but they would only be allowed to sell to INEOS?
It’s likely, it’s not a very good narrative to say that Ineos can’t compete with SJ but the current version of events makes it some kind of auction, not sure how Ineos have been dragged into agreeing to this back and forward that May end up with the glazers keeping some shares.
This guy still wants in?
https://www.skysports.com/football/...s-70m-worth-of-shares-in-the-club-up-for-sale
Reports seem to suggest that this deal whereby the Glazers stay on with minority shares, INEOS will offer a premium on those shares should they wish to sell them within 2 years. Despite everyone crying and saying Ratcliffe is getting into bed with the Glazers, he’s worse than them etc etc I believe that’s just emotional outbursting because they want us to be owned by an oil state so that we can “compete” with the likes of Man City and Newcastle.
Both Qatar and SJR aren’t ideal owners when you factor in a lot of financial and political reasons but I believe Ratcliffe has the upper hand because he’s figured out that, and there’s no smoke without fire, that whilst the rest of the siblings want to leave Joel and Avram are having a hard time letting go right now. By offering this deal he keeps the Glazers sweet for a bit to get control and then eventually gets rid of them a few years down the line when they are more willing to let go of their shares. He’s played it smart because it seems Qatar doesn’t value the club as well as he does and he hasn’t tried to show the Glazers up with PR posts, he obviously knows their ego is as fragile as a mirror and he’s trying not to bruise it.
People here are blinded by the Qatar money that all rationale of Ratcliff and his bid goes out the window, do people seeiously believe he wants to pay all that money and atill have the Glazers be any part of it? Of course he doesn’t, but if there’s any slight hesitation from them to part with the club he has to play it smart and play a longer game which Is what I believe is happening, and what the fans are completely disregarding because they are being short sighted.
I think if there’s any way he can make more money, he will stay in. Just as he has retained control when selling those shares and is now right in the prime seat to make a handsome profit if the club is sold.
Remember the days when some on here used to say ‘But the Glazers only take the dividends…”?
Will admit one of the main reasons for wanting Qatar is to stop someone else getting them,having said that it would feel more of an achievement doing it with INEOS
Thought he wanted to bring in Mitchell or was that flattened straight away and I missed it
They will probably continue to pocket the 10m per glazer kid in dividends and 1m+ / year in comp for being on the board.
Just thinking about it makes me angry.
That doesn't matter if facts on the ground change drastically, they are journalists not oracles after all. So if tomorrow morning SJ rocks up with 6b bid to blow SJR out of the water it doesn't mean they didn't have integrity on Saturday, it simply means facts changed which they can given that the Glazers have one objective - make the most money out of the sale.
If another investor comes with 6b pound bid tomorrow, having watched SJ and SJR slug it out he will become the preferred bidder and the Glazers won't shut him out. Rained, for their own credibility, will simply brief that he has been the silent bidder all along and no one can do anything about it if they can't bid more.
The news that came out on Saturday could very well be the actual state of play but it's also likely that it was a brief to extract a reaction from the Qatari camp and the noises on Monday suggest it was successful.
Thanks for your reply!
You make valid arguments and your “fears” about “be the plaything or a political tool” are perfectly understandable.
Maybe I’m cynical but I have already given up about judging motives and who’s better or worse from a moral standpoint. Cultural, religious or political backgrounds are probably different but in the end they’re (SJR and SJ) both humans probably with similar personal motives. Make us better. What’s coming with it like goodwill (sports washing/greenwashing) is only achievable if we’re being successful so in the end it’s like choosing between two intentional (or unintentional) unwelcome agendas.
Unfortunately I think we have to accept that if we want to long term competing at the highest level probably requires “unlimited’ funds. That’s why I judge the bidders only from a financial perspective without taking into consideration moral issues and similar.
Reminds of the Aerosmith song.....
Eat the rich, there's only one thing they're good for
Eat the rich, take one bite now, come back for more
Eat the rich, I gotta get this off my chest
Eat the rich, take one bite now, spit out the rest, uh huh
Make sure that no mods misspell it and put an 'i' in place of that first 'a'
Thanks for that but you would think the F A or government would start protecting the clubs after what they have seen done to us.
It's all to much for a person like me to understand so i'll just sit back and hope we have a good out come.
I think what has been done to United isn't great but it's the optics of it all which makes it look even worse , Let's say Glazers hadn't saddled Debt on United to purchase it and Instead taken loan on their other assets but continued to take out money from United to service it while running it incompetently and Ignoring failing Infrastructure .
Similar situation to what we have currently in truth but would be viewed lot differently .
And No FA or Government could do anything about it and rightly so .So while Situation at United looks really bad but it's no different to the scenario I just painted for you and I don't see how FA or Government could intervene there.
The problem with having an anti-leveraged buyout clause is you instantly make every club realistically less valuable as the cost of most of these 'assets' now are at a level where they're realistically only affordable by borrowing. State ownership aside. Outside of that even people with on paper net worths the far exceed the valuation of a football club, will not actually have the money to pay for the club outright.
Even Musk has never had £5bn sitting around in the bank.
Even Musk has never had £5bn sitting around in the bank.
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