Club Sale | It’s done!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Zora

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 18, 2023
Messages
383
The last few pages read exactly the same as the few pages before them. The same arguments and point scoring, fans trying to convince other fans that Qatar is best, or that SJR is the best option.

All billionaires come with issues. I really don't care who buys us, as long as it isnt Putin, Trump or that idiot at Tesla/Twitter.

The bottom line is - we need the Glazers gone. Not one Utd fan I know wants to start the 2023/24 season with them still in charge.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rood

Infra-red

Full Member
Joined
May 4, 2010
Messages
13,433
Location
left wing
A must see for all Jim Ratcliffe IN supporters:

I'd guess that many of the Ineos supporters are supporting Ineos primarily because they are not the Glazers and they are not a nation state and it is ultimately a choice of one of those three options.

The on-pitch fortunes of Nice/Lausanne (or lack thereof) are therefore not really going to be persuasive (or at least not in the face of the other concerns re the Glazers/Qatar).
 

Von Mistelroum

Full Member
Joined
May 21, 2015
Messages
4,116
I'd guess that many of the Ineos supporters are supporting Ineos primarily because they are not the Glazers and they are not a nation state and it is ultimately a choice of one of those three options.

The on-pitch fortunes of Nice/Lausanne (or lack thereof) are therefore not really going to be persuasive (or at least not in the face of the other concerns re the Glazers/Qatar).
I mean, they're not the Glazers, but they're not not the Glazers...
 

Castia

Full Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2011
Messages
18,477
This is where the Sir Jim supporters have no comeback Ineos have been awful in both France and Switzerland and the proof is there for all to see. One team got relegated (twice) and the other is fighting for a top half finish with their fans protesting.

Say what you want about PSG and the way it’s run but one thing you can’t deny is they took a club with 1 league title in their entire history and dominated the French league whilst always being a front runner in Europe.
 

RedDevilRoshi

Full Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2017
Messages
13,279
This is where the Sir Jim supporters have no comeback Ineos have been awful in both France and Switzerland and the proof is there for all to see. One team got relegated (twice) and the other is fighting for a top half finish with their fans protesting.

Say what you want about PSG and the way it’s run but one thing you can’t deny is they took a club with 1 league title in their entire history and dominated the French league whilst always being a front runner in Europe.
Well, what I’m being told is that they would run us differently than how they operate at Nice. Plus French people just protest for the sake of it.
 

Sultan

Gentleness adorns everything
Joined
Sep 1, 2004
Messages
48,569
Location
Redcafe
The most important matter is what sort of rulers and managers of public life result from a process of elected government or theocracy. The end result should be a just government. It matters not if we get this comes from a democratically elected government or unelected genuine people who wants to work for the betterment of their country.
 

Rojofiam

Full Member
Joined
May 11, 2017
Messages
3,583
This is where the Sir Jim supporters have no comeback Ineos have been awful in both France and Switzerland and the proof is there for all to see. One team got relegated (twice) and the other is fighting for a top half finish with their fans protesting.

Say what you want about PSG and the way it’s run but one thing you can’t deny is they took a club with 1 league title in their entire history and dominated the French league whilst always being a front runner in Europe.
PSG have done the bare minimum and not much more with the money they have at their disposal. When you have more money than the other 19 teams combined, winning 9 leagues out of 11 is not that great.
 

Member 125398

Guest
The most important matter is what sort of rulers and managers of public life result from a process of elected government or theocracy. The end result should be a just government. It matters not if we get this comes from a democratically elected government or unelected genuine people who wants to work for the betterment of their country.
Wow
 

stw2022

New Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2021
Messages
3,687
The French league is like if the Premier League kicked Arsenal, Newcastle, United, Liverpool, Chelsea and just to be on the safe side Spurs out in terms of levels of competitiveness.

It doesn't seem a market in which an ambitious and invested billionaire like Ratcliffe should be struggling to make an impact. Yet he is
 

JagUTD

Full Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2022
Messages
3,223
Every reason has been discussed at length multiple times in here. There's also a reason it's only certain types of States that engage in this practice, either directly or indirectly.

As for dealing with clubs currently owned by States, dissolve them and put a nice community garden or maybe an Aldi where the stadium used to be. Maybe a bench with a plaque commemorating the former club. The bench might be a step to far tbh as ultimately, nothing of value would above been lost.
 

moses

Can't We Just Be Nice?
Staff
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Messages
43,767
Location
I have no idea either, yet.
The most important matter is what sort of rulers and managers of public life result from a process of elected government or theocracy. The end result should be a just government. It matters not if we get this comes from a democratically elected government or unelected genuine people who wants to work for the betterment of their country.

At least with democracy the shitier ones don't last generations. Which is kind of the point.

Has everyone decided to forget The Enlightenment?
 

mu4c_20le

Full Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
44,435
The most important matter is what sort of rulers and managers of public life result from a process of elected government or theocracy. The end result should be a just government. It matters not if we get this comes from a democratically elected government or unelected genuine people who wants to work for the betterment of their country.
I don't get how a government can be just if they took power by force, murdering thousands along the way. I assume the point you are trying to make is that the ends justify the means, but everyone thinks what they are doing is 'for the betterment of their country'. It's a very vague and subjective term.
 

Sultan

Gentleness adorns everything
Joined
Sep 1, 2004
Messages
48,569
Location
Redcafe
No such thing as a perfect prince. Better to let people choose their path than have it forced on them.
Democracies and theocracies have committed countless afflictions throughout the world. I don't have a particular choice. I have always maintained it's not about the process but more about the type of people chosen from that process.
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
61,770
My country is reliant on sucking Russia's dick and it's the government I hate the most over any other in the world. You are still not getting my point. It's not about agreeing or disagreeing with Middle Eastern policies, or the Quran, or Qatar's penal code.

It's about any government buying a sports club with their bottomless pit of money to 1. use it as a sportswashing tool 2. make the competition utterly pointless for teams that aren't state-owned, especially long-term.

If Ineos bought the club, their pollution and wrongdoings should be brought to light and be criticised. I'm not a fan of them or Ratcliffe. It's just that they cannot even be compared to any government, especially to state like Qatar.
The first Manchester United I can remember is Martin Edwards. He was a man of extremes. On one hand he was the guy who invented the business model we have and which, up till the Glazers came in, was lauded by everyone. He also invested on the club's infrastructure and while he wanted Venables as manager instead of SAF, he listened to Sir Bobby's opinion and he also stuck to SAF when things got sour. On the other hand, he came inches away from losing SAF because he refused to give him the pay rise he deserved, he refused to sanction the deal for Batistuta who would have easily made us win another CL and he whored United to anyone with money.

The PLC placed United in the European map transfer wise. Finally we could afford buying European based players without us having to beg the players to forfeit their signing on fee bonus as we did with Jaap Stam. However it also had it share of weaknesses. First of all it took ages to take a decision (not to the extent of the Glazers but no one is like the Glazers on that). It also opened the door to the Glazers.

Then the Glazers came in. Many warned us about them, how their modus operandi is to squeeze as much money out of their assets, without really investing into them and then still sell them at a profit (shopping malls etc). To my shame I took a wait and see attitude. It was down to many things like for example my ignorance about the owners. However it was mostly down to the arrogance of believing that Manchester United was far too big to fail.

At each stage we praised their strengths and we criticised their weakness. No one defended Edwards peeping tom's antics or the PLC sluggishness just as no one defend the Glazers simply because they are our owners. That's because most of the fans can see a clear distinction between the football owner and the person or in Qatari case the state. This is not just a United thing. Its quite evident during the WC. I can't think of anyone who really liked it. I honestly didn't like it and part of it was down to Qatar (a WC in winter and in a small country with no history in football is a turn off for me). I thought the same with the Japan/South Korea one as well. Sure the US pulled it off but the country is absolutely massive and is located close to South America who are frigging crazy about football. Anyway, no one changed his views about Qatari policies on homophobia etc because of the WC. It won't change if they buy Manchester United.

I disagree with state ownership. If UEFA/FIFA/FA had to ban them all then I'd be the first one to give them the thumbs up. However they won't ban them and I am sick and tired of watching my club having to compete with a broken foot. That's something quite evident as apart from the moralists the only ones supporting INEOS bid are the ABUs.

PS: I might support a super rich owner as an alternative. Unfortunately INEOS are so so shit in football.
 

moses

Can't We Just Be Nice?
Staff
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Messages
43,767
Location
I have no idea either, yet.
Democracies and theocracies have committed countless afflictions throughout the world. I don't have a particular choice. I have always maintained it's not about the process but more about the type of people chosen from that process.
Chosen is a key word, most undemocratic leaders are not chosen, and if they are it's from within a class or family.

I honestly can't believe we've arrived here.
 

Raoul

Admin
Staff
Joined
Aug 14, 1999
Messages
130,517
Location
Hollywood CA
Democracies and theocracies have committed countless afflictions throughout the world. I don't have a particular choice. I have always maintained it's not about the process but more about the type of people chosen from that process.
Yes, but at least people in Democracies have a say in who governs them. Most middle eastern nations have their rulers imposed on them, so there is obviously a massive difference in terms of freedom between both. Beyond that, its simply a terrible look for United to be owned by an authoritarian theocracy that is seeking to use United to rehabilitate their national brand. Whoever owns the club, it should definitely not be a nation state, nevermind an autocracy like Qatar. And yes, Jassim's bid is, whether tacitly or overtly, still a bid by the nation state of Qatar to buy Manchester United.
 
Last edited:

mu4c_20le

Full Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
44,435
Democracies and theocracies have committed countless afflictions throughout the world. I don't have a particular choice. I have always maintained it's not about the process but more about the type of people chosen from that process.
That's a very easy stance to take if you just ignore the atrocities committed along the way and simply assume everyone is the same.
 

stevoc

Full Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2011
Messages
20,780
Well, no. Don’t think anyone is seriously suggesting that.
So let me get this right, you are saying no one is suggesting the Jassim bid is private and not linked to the Qatari state?


As far as I know states are allowed to own clubs. You just have to have an entirely separate structure from a team like PSG
Sadly yes they are, which makes you wonder why the Qatari bid is hiding behind Jassim and his foundation.

As you say one entity can own 2 clubs.
 

stevoc

Full Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2011
Messages
20,780
The Nine Two Foundation would presumably need to be hastily renamed if he goes for another club.
Yep and they'd need a new face for the endeavour. Not unless Jassim has also been a diehard Liverpool or Spurs fan since 1992.
 

Castia

Full Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2011
Messages
18,477
PSG have done the bare minimum and not much more with the money they have at their disposal. When you have more money than the other 19 teams combined, winning 9 leagues out of 11 is not that great.
So why hasn’t Jim even got a top 4 finish then? isn’t he richer than the other 18 teams combined?

Why aren’t Nice second in the league if it’s about money?
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
61,770
So let me get this right, you are saying no one is suggesting the Jassim bid is private and not linked to the Qatari state?




Sadly yes they are, which makes you wonder why the Qatari bid is hiding behind Jassim and his foundation.

As you say one entity can own 2 clubs.
Currently there is no one who own two football giants. That in itself is uncharted territory
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
66,206
Location
France
So why hasn’t Jim even got a top 4 finish then? isn’t he richer than the other 18 teams combined?

Does he not want to invest?
No. While there is a point about his ambition and the way he invested(or didn't) in Nice. Ratcliffe isn't close to the second wealthiest owner.
 

ForeverRed1

Full Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
5,544
Location
England UK!
No. While there is a point about his ambition and the way he invested(or didn't) in Nice. Ratcliffe isn't close to the second wealthiest owner.
isn’t United like the 3rd most expensive club on the planet to buy? Only behind Real and Barcelona? If he can’t afford to buy United and flash serious money on it fairly quickly he should just feck off.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.